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Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier (Read 1870 times)
chimera
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #15 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 6:54am
 
The Falklands are legally a British land territory.
So we have a valid lease which Cuba recognised on Cuban land territory.

"The Rio Treaty, which was signed in 1947 and entered into force in 1948, is a collective security pact among 19 of the
35 countries of the Western Hemisphere. The United States ratified the treaty in 1947 after the U.S. Senate provided its
advice and consent. Article 3 of the treaty asserts than "an armed attack by any State against an American State shall be
considered as an attack against all American States," and it calls on each party to the treaty to assist in collective selfdefense. Article 6 of the treaty, which was invoked in this case, empowers states parties to collectively respond to any other "situation that might endanger the peace" of the region".

"Tensions between Beijing and Manila over the South China Sea have risen another notch after the Philippines' Foreign Secretary published an obscene tweet to order Chinese ships to leave the disputed waters.

"China, my friend, how politely can I put it? Let me see.... O.... GET THE bugger OUT," tweeted Teodoro Locsin, who is known for colourful language on social media."What are you doing to our friendship? You. Not us. We're trying. You. You're like an ugly oaf forcing your attentions on a handsome guy who wants to be a friend; not to father a Chinese province ..."

The Foreign Secretary's expletive-riddled language is the latest in an escalating row between the nations over the continued incursion of Chinese coastguard ships and fishing boats into resource-rich waters inside the Philippines' 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). An international tribunal invalidated China's claim to 90 per cent of the South China Sea in 2016, but Beijing has never recognised the ruling and calls it "a sham".
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #16 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 9:08am
 
chimera wrote on Aug 11th, 2021 at 6:54am:
The Falklands are legally a British land territory.
So we have a valid lease which Cuba recognised on Cuban land territory.

"The Rio Treaty, which was signed in 1947 and entered into force in 1948, is a collective security pact among 19 of the
35 countries of the Western Hemisphere. The United States ratified the treaty in 1947 after the U.S. Senate provided its
advice and consent. Article 3 of the treaty asserts than "an armed attack by any State against an American State shall be
considered as an attack against all American States," and it calls on each party to the treaty to assist in collective selfdefense. Article 6 of the treaty, which was invoked in this case, empowers states parties to collectively respond to any other "situation that might endanger the peace" of the region".

"Tensions between Beijing and Manila over the South China Sea have risen another notch after the Philippines' Foreign Secretary published an obscene tweet to order Chinese ships to leave the disputed waters.

"China, my friend, how politely can I put it? Let me see.... O.... GET THE bugger OUT," tweeted Teodoro Locsin, who is known for colourful language on social media."What are you doing to our friendship? You. Not us. We're trying. You. You're like an ugly oaf forcing your attentions on a handsome guy who wants to be a friend; not to father a Chinese province ..."

The Foreign Secretary's expletive-riddled language is the latest in an escalating row between the nations over the continued incursion of Chinese coastguard ships and fishing boats into resource-rich waters inside the Philippines' 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). An international tribunal invalidated China's claim to 90 per cent of the South China Sea in 2016, but Beijing has never recognised the ruling and calls it "a sham".


The above rant is irrelevant in regard to exclusions zones.

The USA has enacted in law an exclusion zone of 500-mile radius centered on Havana.

The UK has imposed a 500-mile exclusion zone around the Falkland Islands.

So, China was not the first country or the only country to impose exclusion zones.
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #17 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 9:26am
 
But probably the first to impose one within another country's EEZ. And impose control over a sea far from its border.  And without legal right to territory.
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #18 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 9:48am
 
chimera wrote on Aug 11th, 2021 at 9:26am:
But probably the first to impose one within another country's EEZ. And impose control over a sea far from its border.  And without legal right to territory.


No. The USA was the first with a 500 mile exclusion zone around Cuba.
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #19 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 10:35am
 
"The Rio Treaty, which was signed in 1947 and entered into force in 1948, is a collective security pact among 19 of the
35 countries of the Western Hemisphere.  Article 3 of the treaty asserts than "an armed attack by any State against an American State shall be considered as an attack against all American States," and it calls on each party to the treaty to assist in collective selfdefense. Article 6 of the treaty, which was invoked in this case, empowers states parties to collectively respond to any other "situation that might endanger the peace" of the region".

Cuba was a member 1948-1962.

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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #20 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 12:14pm
 
chimera wrote on Aug 11th, 2021 at 10:35am:
"The Rio Treaty, which was signed in 1947 and entered into force in 1948, is a collective security pact among 19 of the
35 countries of the Western Hemisphere.  Article 3 of the treaty asserts than "an armed attack by any State against an American State shall be considered as an attack against all American States," and it calls on each party to the treaty to assist in collective selfdefense. Article 6 of the treaty, which was invoked in this case, empowers states parties to collectively respond to any other "situation that might endanger the peace" of the region".

Cuba was a member 1948-1962.



A fat lot of good the Rio Treaty did Cuba in 1961 when it was invaded by forces from the USA which was a party to the treaty.
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #21 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 12:35pm
 
1,400 American-trained Cubans attacked Cuba.  They were not a State.
The US exclusion zone was a military limit around its legal lease. The USSR was bringing in weapons from a non-Americas State. That's 2 legal bases for the US zone.

The China zone is in effect a pirate territory, without legal land. The piracy exists in the Himalayas in similarly contested territory. The gathering of varied naval ships in South China sea shows the unity against the piracy.
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #22 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 12:43pm
 
chimera wrote on Aug 11th, 2021 at 12:35pm:
1,400 American-trained Cubans attacked Cuba.  They were not a State.
The US exclusion zone was a military limit around its legal lease. The USSR was bringing in weapons from a non-Americas State. That's 2 legal bases for the US zone.

The China zone is in effect a pirate territory, without legal land. The piracy exists in the Himalayas in similarly contested territory. The gathering of varied naval ships in South China sea shows the unity against the piracy.


According to your rules Israel-occupied Palestine is a Israeli pirate territory with exclusion zones which is supported and assisted by the USA.
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #23 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 1:31pm
 
Well OK if you want to back off from China's policy.
PLO and Hamas are at war with Israel but Philippines just wants to go fishing.
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #24 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 3:06pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 10th, 2021 at 2:49pm:
The UK has sent its shiny new aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth to the South China Sea to antagonize China.

Why are all these provocative military acts being implemented in the air and the sea around the world to antagonize China and Russia?

The USA would not tolerate foolish military adventures in US waters and air space.


Its about Taiwan, which leads to the Philippines, which leads to Japan, etc, etc. Personally, I would not like to see the Communists just walk in unopposed, but I see where your sympathies lie.   

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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #25 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 7:23pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Aug 11th, 2021 at 3:06pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 10th, 2021 at 2:49pm:
The UK has sent its shiny new aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth to the South China Sea to antagonize China.

Why are all these provocative military acts being implemented in the air and the sea around the world to antagonize China and Russia?

The USA would not tolerate foolish military adventures in US waters and air space.


Its about Taiwan, which leads to the Philippines, which leads to Japan, etc, etc. Personally, I would not like to see the Communists just walk in unopposed, but I see where your sympathies lie.   



Taiwan is shagged. It has overpopulated the pimple of land it occupies and will probably experience horrendous effects from climate change including shrinkage and collapse of some of the land it occupies as the sea pummels the island.

The people are looking forward to the shrinkage of the population from negative population growth.

I doubt that China really wants to take over Taiwan other than the land itself as a defence outpost.
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #26 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 7:33pm
 
'Alright we'll put missile pads over that way next to Taipei.'
'But there's a big population there'.
'No the sea has pummelled them, shrunk and collapsed them and PLA pummels them. They're just a pimple.  They welcome the shrinking to an outpost and being underwater.  It's better that way.'
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #27 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 8:20pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 10th, 2021 at 2:49pm:
The UK has sent its shiny new aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth to the South China Sea to antagonize China.

Why are all these provocative military acts being implemented in the air and the sea around the world to antagonize China and Russia?

The USA would not tolerate foolish military adventures in US waters and air space.


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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #28 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 8:23pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Aug 10th, 2021 at 3:17pm:
The world is merely showing China it does not own the South China Sea, in spite of its illegal military construction and harassment of shipping.


Britain and USA are not the world.
Smiley
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Re: Fools errand? ... UK risking new aircraft carrier
Reply #29 - Aug 11th, 2021 at 8:55pm
 
It only takes one idiot to start a shooting war. Remember the idiot Commander Will Rogers of the USA who shot down an Iranian civil aircraft Iran Air flight 655 killing 290 people.

To add insult to injury the USA even gave this war crime perpetrator, Commander Will Rogers, a medal.

"The July 3, 1988, downing of Iran Air flight 655 by the U.S. Navy remains one of the moments the Iranian government points to in its decades-long distrust of America. They rank it alongside the 1953 CIA-backed coup that toppled its elected prime minister and secured Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi’s absolute power until he abdicated the throne before the 1979 Islamic Revolution."
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