Australian Politics Forum - Spineless apologetics

Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83931 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Spineless apologetics Reply #60 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 12:13am Saudis like to use a big sword...
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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 95356 Gender:	Re: Spineless apologetics Reply #61 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 12:33am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 12:13am: Saudis like to use a big sword... The old boy prefers a banana. You?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #62 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 11:52am

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 11:35pm:

The only thing you're missing is the Ministry of Propaganda's signature at the bottom of your post.

No one denies you can't have human rights without economic development. China is currently developing economically, and has no intention whatsoever of allowing individual human rights. Its government holds this up as its political model: collective economic development at the expense of individual liberty.

And the regime has no intention of continuing the experiement Deng began.

Liberty and freedom for the people would end the regime (as Gorbachev discovered with the USSR).

English language lessons and examinations are being ended, as competency with English has proved to be a route for the Chinese mind to escape regime propaganda.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Karnal

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #63 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 1:59pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 11:52am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 11:35pm:

The only thing you're missing is the Ministry of Propaganda's signature at the bottom of your post.

No one denies you can't have human rights without economic development. China is currently developing economically, and has no intention whatsoever of allowing individual human rights. Its government holds this up as its political model: collective economic development at the expense of individual liberty.

And the regime has no intention of continuing the experiement Deng began.

Liberty and freedom for the people would end the regime (as Gorbachev discovered with the USSR).

English language lessons and examinations are being ended, as competency with English has proved to be a route for the Chinese mind to escape regime propaganda.

Quote:

If English was not a compulsory main subject, students could spend more time improving their education in areas such as music, sports and arts and lay more emphasis on cultivating independent thinking and innovative capabilities, Xu said.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202103/1217396.shtml

Cultivating independent thinking and innovative capabilities, eh?

Four rivers meet in the dam.
Father, mother, son, daughter.
Socialist thinking makes the people strong!
Long live Chairman Xi.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #64 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 2:09pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 1:59pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 11:52am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 11:35pm:

The only thing you're missing is the Ministry of Propaganda's signature at the bottom of your post.

No one denies you can't have human rights without economic development. China is currently developing economically, and has no intention whatsoever of allowing individual human rights. Its government holds this up as its political model: collective economic development at the expense of individual liberty.

And the regime has no intention of continuing the experiement Deng began.

Liberty and freedom for the people would end the regime (as Gorbachev discovered with the USSR).

English language lessons and examinations are being ended, as competency with English has proved to be a route for the Chinese mind to escape regime propaganda.

Quote:

If English was not a compulsory main subject, students could spend more time improving their education in areas such as music, sports and arts and lay more emphasis on cultivating independent thinking and innovative capabilities, Xu said.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202103/1217396.shtml

Cultivating independent thinking and innovative capabilities, eh?

Yes, ironic, given English lessons have been replaced with learning by rote 'The Thoughts of Xi Jinping'.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #65 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:20pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 11:35pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 9:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:12pm:

Quote:

If you're trying to pretend China is on some steady path of liberal reform

I wouldn't say steady.

Quote:

Economic growth in China comes down to its population, not its economic policies.The CCP retards growth precisely because it won't allow liberalisation.

The growth you see is a result of rapid economic liberalisation. Population is only part of it. You complain about them destroying a company, but not long ago they sent up to 55 million people to the grave to show their dedication to communism.

60% of their GDP comes from private enterprise, which did not exist in China until recently.

Sorry, what does GDP have to do with human rights?

I'd hazard the Saudis have a larger private sector and still behead their political opponents with surgical bone saws in broad daylight.

You'd probably have a better case if you wanted to present capitalism as a force for liberalism with the Saudis, but then you'd be stuck trying to defend their human rights record too.

But do you know? We wouldn't be having this debate if you didn't try to make out the Taliban was responsible for Sept 11 during one of your more absolutist pronouncements.

Most of us are happy to accept that things are complicated. You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

The last five years of US politics, at the very least, should show you just how impossible this vision is. Not only have the shadows come from white supremacism, authoritarianism and the religious right within, Islamist outfits like the Taliban have gone almost unnoticed.

Now, we'll be watching them join forces with Russia and China, testing the West where it's most sensitive. As China quietly builds up its strength, as Putin quietly sows the seeds of resentment, and as the white supremacists on this board and elsewhere drum up a cacophony of fear and loathing to drown out any semblance of reason or rational informed debate, we'll all see that quaint, post-Cold War vision of American-led capitalism saving the world fade into a distant memory.

China can't rely on oil reserves to lift the starving peasants out of poverty. Instead they have to rely on economic liberalism.

GDP has a lot to do with human rights. Why do you think human rights are so strongly correlated with high GDP? Yes, this is a test of your ability to see the wood, despite all the trees in the way. Open your eyes.

The only thing you're missing is the Ministry of Propaganda's signature at the bottom of your post.

No one denies you can't have human rights without economic development. China is currently developing economically, and has no intention whatsoever of allowing individual human rights. Its government holds this up as its political model: collective economic development at the expense of individual liberty.

On the measure of GDP growth, China is currently surpassing the US. The contrasting covid responses of the two countries gives us some insight into how the two political systems operate when it comes to individual liberty and economic growth.

Ask the old boy for a banana. He's keen to give you one.

Will you take it?

Why do you think human rights are so strongly correlated with high GDP? Yes, this is a test of your ability to see the wood, despite all the trees in the way. Open your eyes.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #66 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:20pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 11:35pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 9:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:12pm:

Quote:

If you're trying to pretend China is on some steady path of liberal reform

I wouldn't say steady.

Quote:

Economic growth in China comes down to its population, not its economic policies.The CCP retards growth precisely because it won't allow liberalisation.

The growth you see is a result of rapid economic liberalisation. Population is only part of it. You complain about them destroying a company, but not long ago they sent up to 55 million people to the grave to show their dedication to communism.

60% of their GDP comes from private enterprise, which did not exist in China until recently.

Sorry, what does GDP have to do with human rights?

I'd hazard the Saudis have a larger private sector and still behead their political opponents with surgical bone saws in broad daylight.

You'd probably have a better case if you wanted to present capitalism as a force for liberalism with the Saudis, but then you'd be stuck trying to defend their human rights record too.

But do you know? We wouldn't be having this debate if you didn't try to make out the Taliban was responsible for Sept 11 during one of your more absolutist pronouncements.

Most of us are happy to accept that things are complicated. You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

The last five years of US politics, at the very least, should show you just how impossible this vision is. Not only have the shadows come from white supremacism, authoritarianism and the religious right within, Islamist outfits like the Taliban have gone almost unnoticed.

Now, we'll be watching them join forces with Russia and China, testing the West where it's most sensitive. As China quietly builds up its strength, as Putin quietly sows the seeds of resentment, and as the white supremacists on this board and elsewhere drum up a cacophony of fear and loathing to drown out any semblance of reason or rational informed debate, we'll all see that quaint, post-Cold War vision of American-led capitalism saving the world fade into a distant memory.

China can't rely on oil reserves to lift the starving peasants out of poverty. Instead they have to rely on economic liberalism.

GDP has a lot to do with human rights. Why do you think human rights are so strongly correlated with high GDP? Yes, this is a test of your ability to see the wood, despite all the trees in the way. Open your eyes.

The only thing you're missing is the Ministry of Propaganda's signature at the bottom of your post.

No one denies you can't have human rights without economic development. China is currently developing economically, and has no intention whatsoever of allowing individual human rights. Its government holds this up as its political model: collective economic development at the expense of individual liberty.

On the measure of GDP growth, China is currently surpassing the US. The contrasting covid responses of the two countries gives us some insight into how the two political systems operate when it comes to individual liberty and economic growth.

Ask the old boy for a banana. He's keen to give you one.

Will you take it?

Why do you think human rights are so strongly correlated with high GDP? Yes, this is a test of your ability to see the wood, despite all the trees in the way. Open your eyes.

How are human rights in Saudi Arabia, FD?

I'm curious. I'm keen to hear what you think.

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Bertie

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #67 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

Are these forces allied to each other? Islam and socialism are not backward? Is 'tinted' backward or progressive? You are mixing things up faster than a cups-and-ball trickster/apologist.

Please explain.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1429625109191532545

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Karnal

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #68 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm

Bertie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

Are these forces allied to each other? Islam and socialism are not backward? Is 'tinted' backward or progressive? You are mixing things up faster than a cups-and-ball trickster/apologist.

Please explain.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1429625109191532545

Agatha? Is that you, dear? Ee-gad, what have they done with you?

You haven't been visiting Sir Reggie and the Foreign Office boys over in Turkey again, have you?

I'd be willing to wager Mustapha Khunt's had his hand in this. If you want my advice, dear, stay away from the gin.

He didn't leave you his calling card by any chance?

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« Last Edit: Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:02pm by Karnal »

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Bertie

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #69 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:01pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Bertie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

Are these forces allied to each other? Islam and socialism are not backward? Is 'tinted' backward or progressive? You are mixing things up faster than a cups-and-ball trickster/apologist.

Please explain.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1429625109191532545

Agatha? Is that you, dear? Ee-gad, what have they done with you?

You haven't been visiting Sir Reggie and the Foreign Office boys over in Turkey again, have you?

If you want my advice, dear, stay away from the gin.

Oh, so we have to wait for FD to answer Brian's question first - and that's now your policy as well.

Got it.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #70 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:05pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Bertie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

Are these forces allied to each other? Islam and socialism are not backward? Is 'tinted' backward or progressive? You are mixing things up faster than a cups-and-ball trickster/apologist.

Please explain.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1429625109191532545

Agatha? Is that you, dear? Ee-gad, what have they done with you?

Bertie: His atavistic reincarnation of a dead altar boy.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Karnal

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #71 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:21pm

Bertie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Bertie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

Are these forces allied to each other? Islam and socialism are not backward? Is 'tinted' backward or progressive? You are mixing things up faster than a cups-and-ball trickster/apologist.

Please explain.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1429625109191532545

Agatha? Is that you, dear? Ee-gad, what have they done with you?

You haven't been visiting Sir Reggie and the Foreign Office boys over in Turkey again, have you?

If you want my advice, dear, stay away from the gin.

Oh, so we have to wait for FD to answer Brian's question first - and that's now your policy as well.

Got it.

Never trust a man with "policies". It served us in the Foreign Office, and it applies equally well today.

We always knew you had a bit of the old Bertie in you, dear. What made you finally make the switch?

Don't tell me - man by the name of Mustapha Khunt. That cad's crooned his way through every aged spinster from here to Timbuktu.

Don't bother with the card, dear, he won't take my calls. Blighter still owes me twenty pounds for that Danish chap I put him onto. Now what was his name?

Sore End. Frightful bore, but at least he could drink.

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Karnal

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #72 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:37pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Bertie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

Are these forces allied to each other? Islam and socialism are not backward? Is 'tinted' backward or progressive? You are mixing things up faster than a cups-and-ball trickster/apologist.

Please explain.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1429625109191532545

Agatha? Is that you, dear? Ee-gad, what have they done with you?

Bertie: His atavistic reincarnation of a dead altar boy.

Oh, no signs of life, dear. They left him with the corpse.

Still, take him out of his trunk and he makes a great party trick. Sit him on your knee, drink a glass of water and he talks back at you.

He's a charm to watch, the boys love it. How he works up the exasperation I'll never know.

That wooden mouth clicks away and the colour never fades from his cheeks. The toupe's a hoot.

We've been thinking of trying a fez on him. You know, mix it up a bit.

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Bertie

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #73 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:39pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:37pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Bertie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

Are these forces allied to each other? Islam and socialism are not backward? Is 'tinted' backward or progressive? You are mixing things up faster than a cups-and-ball trickster/apologist.

Please explain.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1429625109191532545

Agatha? Is that you, dear? Ee-gad, what have they done with you?

Bertie: His atavistic reincarnation of a dead altar boy.

Oh, no signs of life, dear. They left him with the corpse.

Still, take him out of his trunk and he makes a great party trick. Sit him on your knee, drink a glass of water and he talks back at you.

He's a charm to watch, the boys love it. How he works up the exasperation I'll never know.

That wooden mouth clicks away and the colour never fades from his cheeks. The toupe's a hoot.

I must remember to order him one when I'm next in Istanbul.

"What ho!" I said.
"What ho!" said Karnal.
"What ho! What ho!"
"What ho! What ho! What ho!" saig Norf.

After that it seemed rather difficult to go on with the conversation.

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« Last Edit: Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:46pm by Bertie »

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Spineless apologetics
Reply #74 - Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:44pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:37pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 6:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Bertie wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

You prefer to see the West as a beacon of shining light, shadowed only by the backward forces of Islam, socialism and tintedness.

Are these forces allied to each other? Islam and socialism are not backward? Is 'tinted' backward or progressive? You are mixing things up faster than a cups-and-ball trickster/apologist.

Please explain.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1429625109191532545

Agatha? Is that you, dear? Ee-gad, what have they done with you?

Bertie: His atavistic reincarnation of a dead altar boy.

Oh, no signs of life, dear. They left him with the corpse.

Still, take him out of his trunk and he makes a great party trick. Sit him on your knee, drink a glass of water and he talks back at you.

He's a charm to watch, the boys love it. How he works up the exasperation I'll never know.

That wooden mouth clicks away and the colour never fades from his cheeks. The toupe's a hoot.

I must remember to order him one when I'm next in Istanbul.

Bertie lives on, in an obscure forum; while his corpse rests in peace under Frank's mother's house.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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