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Racism Warning (Read 46043 times)
freediver
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #615 - Mar 12th, 2023 at 9:04pm
 
John Smith wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 7:03pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 6:30pm:
In making this decision, is it reasonable for everyone to assume that you support government policy that discriminates on the basis of race? Or is this yet another opinion that you do not allow yourself to have?



Depends on what govt policy you are referring to. So far, despite crying for months about racist government policy, you've failed to show any. You realise that it takes more than a few tears from entitled old men to make it fact, right?


Why does it depend on the policy John? What government policies that discriminate on the basis of race do you support?
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Frank
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #616 - Mar 12th, 2023 at 9:18pm
 
'Racism' is a label morons bandy about.

Anyone using it as an 'argument's is an idiot. It's the shibboleth of the mindless morons.

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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #617 - Mar 12th, 2023 at 10:26pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 1:20pm:
Jesus - another dividie refutation - I don't even bother to read your 'refutation' for the simple reason that I've explained to you endlessly that just saying "No - it's not" is not a refutation.... and you must provide solid factual data and evidence and reasoning based on those in order to refute something.

Jeez, lad - even here in Darkest Australia (you wouldn't know the tip of the social problems here) the High court has held that the opinion of an expert witness must be supported by facts and cannot stand alone... your opinion cannot stand alone.

Debate?  This isn't a formal debate, it is an assemblage of views and knowledge - with the emphasis on the latter.... if you have no knowledge to verify your view - you have no view....When are YOU going to provide answers apart from 'give 'em a job'.

Even mothra has the right to a point of view, and the right to have it picked apart..... same as you.

You were saying?  Try refuting instead of contradicting.... this isn't schoolyard politics...


You're a racist, get over it. You don't need two pages of squirming to deflect from that, just own it.

You already have. You just want to play the old sneak and reveal.

No one's playing, dear. Tough titties. Been there, done that.

You've already said.
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Karnal
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #618 - Mar 12th, 2023 at 10:29pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 3:40pm:
John Smith wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 11:23am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 9:59am:
Are you suggesting racism is a popularity contest John?


no, i'm suggesting that you're a dishonest wanker


You and Mothra are being dishonest when you insist you are not racists, then promote government discrimination on the basis of race, then get your panties in a bunch when asked to define racism or tell us whether you think it is racist to discriminate on the basis of race.

John Smith wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 4:36pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 3:29pm:
John Smith wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 9:50am:
geez you're a dishonest wanker. You should try asking if anyone agrees with you that what has happened at Mt warning is first racism instead if implying it as a given. You might get more answers.


It's racism - now we can move on


No, it's not. So you'd better stop moving before you trip over your own feet


What is not racism John? Discriminating on the basis of race?

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 4:44pm:
because the MOST systemically disadvantaged happen to be blacks...as confirmed by the egregious gap.


Can you explain what you think is systematic?

Quote:
Yes, well it would help if we could get rid of the poverty industry


What do you suggest?


Are you a racist, FD? You haven't said.

Gonads, Grappler, the old boy - to date, all have confessed.

If you don't want to own up, feel free to deny.

Over to you.
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #619 - Mar 12th, 2023 at 10:35pm
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 6:37pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 11:20am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 7:28am:
Karnal wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 10:48pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 7:00pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 6:53pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 6:36pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 4:26pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 3:56pm:
John Smith wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 11:23am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2023 at 9:59am:
Are you suggesting racism is a popularity contest John?


no, i'm suggesting that you're a dishonest wanker


Now now, JS, that's unfair. Before we establish dishonesty on the part of a fellow poster, we must first ask questions. This helps us to clarify the poster's thoughts, thinking and beliefs.

As an example, we might ask for FD's views on a particular subject. We then carefully read his response, and if we require additional information, we follow up with a supplementary. This means we're curious, keen to hear what FD thinks.

As another example, we might ask FD to clarify his views, typically through the use of a close-ended question, which allows for a more succinct response. E.g, do prawns feel pain? This question allows only one of two responses; yes or no. We may choose to establish this at the outset, informing our fellow poster that a simple yes or no will suffice.

We do so in the spirit of curiosity, careful to hear our fellow member's views, ready to capture any poignant information. Another method is the confessional, where we encourage the poster to say what he or she really thinks. Some members worry about their reputations and are wary of revealing their views. We direct such posters to be clear and concise. We remind them of the consequences of being seen as fearful in the light of our penetrative truth. We direct them to confess and, if relevant, to show contrition for any potential flaws in character. Are you a racist? We might ask. We might follow up with a courteous, please explain? Or an invitation to brevity, as outlined above; a simple yes or no will suffice.

It might help if you asked FD himself if he is a dishonest wanker. This gives him the opportunity to clarify his views or, if he disagrees, explain why.

If so, you can follow up with another question. As an example; are you a racist?

Our poster may, of course, concede at this point. If so, you have done your job in revealing the truth. But each negative response is fraught with the inference of hostile denial, which gives their response little or no credibility. In most cases, posters understand this problem and avoid answering altogether. In this case, you have them for avoidance, which is nearly as bad as denial.

Most posters will attempt to distract or divert at this point. The best way to keep them on track is through subsequent questioning. We can even put their diversion to them directly, as an example; why are you evading the question?

Most posters will respond with direct questions of their own. The best way to respond to this is to stick to one's role as the questioner. Such questions should never be answered. I cannot emphasise this strongly enough. 

Pointing out that you asked first rarely works to quell a rebellious querant. One should resolve such a stalemate with further questions. That's a question, one might say, would you care for an answer? If not, why not? What is the poster trying to hide? Are they scared? Why are they scared? We're all friends here, yes? Why evade such a question? Are they being dishonest? Are they having a wank?

Are they a racist?

As you can see, JS, our our posts. You may well be surprised with the results.

Why not ask FD a question?


brilliant post..... very high class for Ozpolitics....Smiley

(I was reading about 'dialectics' only yesterday, in the wiki article about Marx).


Grin You're easily amused.

And FATTYWISK is right ..... never answer a question.

Just pose another question.

As slippery as you can get ... dishonest in fact.


Excuse I, Gonads, I believed you confessed to being a racist, am I correct?

You're really quite brave, no?


Did I? ... are you sure about that?

I believe you're incorrect


But you're not sure, right?

No worries. Why don't you just say here?

Right here, right now. We'll clear this up once and for all. Are you a naughty old racist?

A simple yes or no will suffice.



I thought I had?

Are you?

Don't hold back on the questions now

enquiring minds have to know ..... yes? Grin


Don't want to say, eh? Now why would that be?

Come come, Gonads, we're all friends here. We've been through all this, it must have slipped your mind. Are you a naughty old racist?

We'll get to the bottom of this immediately, okay?



Are you?

Are you too clever for your own good?

Or merely a sarcastic wanker?

Don't hold back now..... as you said we're all friends here ....no?  Grin


But of course. You've already confessed, Gonads, as you well know.

If you'd like to retract, just say.

However you want to play this, remember, we're here for you.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #620 - Mar 12th, 2023 at 10:50pm
 
Stick to being cat meat - your accusations aren't worth the tuna they're written on.

Even mothra gave you the kiss of death - she said you were smart!!!

Try New MATTYWISK - the cat food with the built in plate that licks itself clean - wisks away those crumbs that your pussy might leave behind.... your pussy will love it!!
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #621 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:06am
 


Walker’s comments tell you what happens to those who disagree with the orthodoxy of the progressive Bar. And it is not limited to a fear that their colleagues are whispering behind their backs in the tea rooms of barristers’ chambers.

Lawyers who wish to speak up have a real concern that disagreeing with the orthodoxy will also bring retribution from the law firms strongly aligned with the most radical model of the voice, and from those governments which also support that model. Briefs will dry up and appointments will disappear.

The legal profession must be better than this. The Bar Association should condemn Walker’s comments and demand there be no more attacks. It should also denounce any possibility that law firms might discriminate against or in any way harm lawyers who raise concerns about the legal implications of the voice.

While this would all be a great first step, it begs a wider and more troubling question. Is this the model of behaviour we can expect from the voice and its advocates if the referendum is successful?

The campaign has been marked by a level of dishonesty, nasty attacks and deception one could scarcely credit. Once upon a time, Marcia Langton, Shireen Morris and many others promised us the voice would not shift power from parliament to the courts because it would be non-justiciable.

We now know this was never true, and quite probably could never have been true. This kind of misleading conduct, coupled with the kind of smears we saw Noel Pearson direct at David Littleproud, and now Bret Walker’s intervention, tells you how the voice will operate if implemented – more division and harassment can be expected.

Regular cries of “racist” will be directed at those who stand in the way of the voice.

Leave aside the irony of those seeking constitutional preference for one race only calling others racist, how does any of this advance reconciliation or improve the lives of Indigenous Australians in a practical way? Is this really a good thing for Australia?
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-maybe...
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #622 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:26am
 
"Halo flight - on my mark ...... drop tanks and hit it to the paywall.... three... two... one... MARK!"
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #623 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:40am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 6:30pm:
In making this decision, is it reasonable for everyone to assume that you support government policy that discriminates on the basis of race? Or is this yet another opinion that you do not allow yourself to have?


Interesting that you are pressing John in this, but you have let my explanation - that the voice is racist by default, not design** - pass without comment.

**ie the nation (if the referendum passes) thinks the voice may serve to assist in 'closing the BLACK gap' ....which by definition is predominantly a black matter, hence "racist".

But the desire to close the gap is not "racist", in the usual derogatory sense of the word.   



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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #624 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 9:09am
 
Frank wrote on Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:06am:
Leave aside the irony of those seeking constitutional preference for one race only calling others racist, how does any of this advance reconciliation or improve the lives of Indigenous Australians in a practical way? Is this really a good thing for Australia?
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-maybe...


I found this comment from Walker in an AFR article:

“I think, unpacked, that notion is one of the most depressingly unkind, anti-social views of this whole thing – ’don’t let’s have a Voice because it might give blackfellas some moral force. Really? Really? Is that we think? ..."

Re your above quote from The Oz (paywalled), notice how ideology colours the narrative:

"those seeking constitutional preference" ....rather than

"those seeking constitutional recognition",

which would make redundant the following words:

"for one race only",

because  ALL the nation's races are already given implied recognition in the constitution.

Back to Walker's comment quoted by me above:  "might give blacks some moral force".

Obviously not "racist", in the normal derogatory sense of the word. 

   
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #625 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 9:10am
 
Silly comment - it is racist by default and by design.... that is its entire aim and intention.

Blacks here have plenty of 'moral force' - they have countless sycophants running after their every utterance and kissing their arse at every turn... and nothing stops them from speaking out about anything...

Load of cods as usual...
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #626 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 9:54am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 13th, 2023 at 9:09am:
Frank wrote on Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:06am:
Leave aside the irony of those seeking constitutional preference for one race only calling others racist, how does any of this advance reconciliation or improve the lives of Indigenous Australians in a practical way? Is this really a good thing for Australia?
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-maybe...


I found this comment from Walker in an AFR article:

“I think, unpacked, that notion is one of the most depressingly unkind, anti-social views of this whole thing – ’don’t let’s have a Voice because it might give blackfellas some moral force. Really? Really? Is that we think? ..."

Re your above quote from The Oz (paywalled), notice how ideology colours the narrative:

"those seeking constitutional preference" ....rather than

"those seeking constitutional recognition",

which would make redundant the following words:

"for one race only",

because  ALL the nation's races are already given implied recognition in the constitution.

Back to Walker's comment quoted by me above:  "might give blacks some moral force".

Obviously not "racist", in the normal derogatory sense of the word. 

   



Silly waffle, parrot.


The Bar Association should condemn Walker’s comments and demand there be no more attacks. It should also denounce any possibility that law firms might discriminate against or in any way harm lawyers who raise concerns about the legal implications of the voice.

While this would all be a great first step, it begs a wider and more troubling question. Is this the model of behaviour we can expect from the voice and its advocates if the referendum is successful?

The campaign has been marked by a level of dishonesty, nasty attacks and deception one could scarcely credit. Once upon a time, Marcia Langton, Shireen Morris and many others promised us the voice would not shift power from parliament to the courts because it would be non-justiciable.

We now know this was never true, and quite probably could never have been true. This kind of misleading conduct, coupled with the kind of smears we saw Noel Pearson direct at David Littleproud, and now Bret Walker’s intervention, tells you how the voice will operate if implemented – more division and harassment can be expected.

Regular cries of “racist” will be directed at those who stand in the way of the voice.


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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #627 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 11:42am
 
Frank wrote on Mar 13th, 2023 at 9:54am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 13th, 2023 at 9:09am:
Frank wrote on Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:06am:
Leave aside the irony of those seeking constitutional preference for one race only calling others racist, how does any of this advance reconciliation or improve the lives of Indigenous Australians in a practical way? Is this really a good thing for Australia?
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-maybe...


I found this comment from Walker in an AFR article:

“I think, unpacked, that notion is one of the most depressingly unkind, anti-social views of this whole thing – ’don’t let’s have a Voice because it might give blackfellas some moral force. Really? Really? Is that we think? ..."

Re your above quote from The Oz (paywalled), notice how ideology colours the narrative:

"those seeking constitutional preference" ....rather than

"those seeking constitutional recognition",

which would make redundant the following words:

"for one race only",

because  ALL the nation's races are already given implied recognition in the constitution.

Back to Walker's comment quoted by me above:  "might give blacks some moral force".

Obviously not "racist", in the normal derogatory sense of the word. 

   



Silly waffle, parrot.


Ok, I'm listening; let's read on...


Quote:
The Bar Association should condemn Walker’s comments and demand there be no more attacks.


It's interesting lawyers don't agree on law; so we have the disastrous dispute over abortion rights in the US being decided by lawyers in the Supreme Court rather than the legislature; while in Israel the reverse: the executive wants to overrule the judiciary....(the population seem to be siding with the judiciary...)

Apparently Walker has presented more cases to the Oz High Court than any other silk.....

Quote:
It should also denounce any possibility that law firms might discriminate against or in any way harm lawyers who raise concerns about the legal implications of the voice.


Yes...nasty when disagreement on points of law leads to discrimination and exclusion....

Quote:
While this would all be a great first step, it begs a wider and more troubling question. Is this the model of behaviour we can expect from the voice and its advocates if the referendum is successful?



Well, maybe justiciability should be expressly forbidden by the referendum question.

Quote:
The campaign has been marked by a level of dishonesty, nasty attacks and deception one could scarcely credit. Once upon a time, Marcia Langton, Shireen Morris and many others promised us the voice would not shift power from parliament to the courts because it would be non-justiciable.


Solution: state that the voice WILL BE non-justiciable?

Quote:
We now know this was never true, and quite probably could never have been true.


Except if non-justiciability is expressly written?

Quote:
This kind of misleading conduct, coupled with the kind of smears we saw Noel Pearson direct at David Littleproud, and now Bret Walker’s intervention, tells you how the voice will operate if implemented – more division and harassment can be expected.


So the lawyers need to agree: non-justiciability needs to be enshrined.

But would this go against the interests of lawyers who thrive on justiciability?

Quote:
Regular cries of “racist” will be directed at those who stand in the way of the voice.


And no doubt in some cases (obviously not all)  those cries will be correct....when we have to deal with ignorant comments like 'lazy abos', which fail to take into account the demoralization of structural unemployment (see the Job Guarantee thread).



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« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2023 at 11:48am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #628 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 12:06pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 13th, 2023 at 9:10am:
Silly comment - it is racist by default and by design.... that is its entire aim and intention.


So we have a problem of semantics here, you are forcing me the clarify what I mean by default versus design.

If we want a voice which deals specifically with issues relating to blacks only, this is not  "racist" in intent (design), only "racist" by 'default' because the voice is concerned specifically with the black gap, as opposed to  disadvantage (or the gap)  in the general non black community.

Understand now?

Quote:
Blacks here have plenty of 'moral force' -

 
wrong, many blacks LACK 'moral force' after generations of enforced displacement and subsequent demoralization

Quote:
and they have countless sycophants running after their every utterance and kissing their arse at every turn... and nothing stops them from speaking out about anything...



now you are talking about the parasites in the poverty industry - though sometimes they are 'innocent' parasites, because the vicious neoliberal market economy NEEDS them to serve the 'safety net' of the 'social welfare'/poverty industry.

Quote:
Load of cods as usual...


Try answering any ONE point above.
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Re: Racism Warning
Reply #629 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 12:15pm
 
Parrot, you have no idea, as usual.

You cannot remove ANY part of the Constitution from the High Court's jurisdiction.
That is why they want the Voice in the Constitution, rather than a legislated ATSIC mark 2 or the EXISTING https://www.niaa.gov.au/

IT IS NOT ABOUT RECOGNITION, NOT EVEN ADVICE, BUT RACE BASED POLITICAL POWER.

It is a colossal swindle, using democracy to undermine democracy and sovereignty.



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