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Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future (Read 3606 times)
Karnal
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #30 - Sep 8th, 2021 at 12:46am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 7th, 2021 at 4:20pm:
wombatwoody wrote on Sep 7th, 2021 at 12:14pm:
Gore Vidal, a leading US columnist, put it very bluntly:

“As it proved, the conquest of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Osama. He was simply a pretext for replacing the Taliban with a relatively stable government that would allow Union Oil of California to lay its pipeline for the profit of, among others, the Cheney-Bush junta.”

https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html



So no-one actually cared about 9/11?


What sound does a jellyfish make?
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Karnal
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #31 - Sep 8th, 2021 at 1:03am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2021 at 10:16pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 31st, 2021 at 9:38pm:
Charlie Wilson hustled, from five million, to nearly a billion dollars to send to the Mujahadeen, arms to defeat the Soviets.

He helped end the Soviet Union but accidentally started a religious jihad which he blamed on the US not nation-building.


I think the Jihad started 1400 years ago. What changed last century was the world got smaller.


Sykes/Picot, the Cold War, the clash of civilisations, colonialism ended far too soon.

Don't forget, you're down as supporting each and every one of Uncle's little post-2001 pity parties. At least the old boy has the gall to feign white man's burden.

You feign Freeeeeedom.
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #32 - Sep 8th, 2021 at 2:19am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 1st, 2021 at 10:17am:
An Australian in-joke in the movie, 'Charlie Wilson's War', was that they'd named the character of the CIA Pakistan / Afghanistan operations chief as Harold Holt!!



Wait until you see your own name or a relative's name used in a movie....... I do the same with my books - sometimes take real people's names and use them... Bernard Cornwell's character's name Richard Sharpe is the name of the son of one of his friends... even Harrison Ford is the name of a merchant banker from the 1800's....

I've done a double take to see a rellie's name in some movie...

Nothing unusual.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #33 - Sep 10th, 2021 at 9:41am
 
Winston Churchill described it best when he said, except at the times of sowing and harvesting, a continual state of feud exists. Tribe wars with tribe. The people of one valley fight those of the next. There is an Afghan joke: an angel is sent to Earth to grant a wish to one person from each country on condition that whatever they want, their neighbour gets twice of the same thing. People in most countries say we don’t mind whatever you’re giving to our neighbours as long as you give me what I wish. When it came to the Afghan, he requested the angel pluck out one of his eyes. That about sums it up.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #34 - Sep 10th, 2021 at 10:00am
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 8th, 2021 at 2:19am:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 1st, 2021 at 10:17am:
An Australian in-joke in the movie, 'Charlie Wilson's War', was that they'd named the character of the CIA Pakistan / Afghanistan operations chief as Harold Holt!!



Wait until you see your own name or a relative's name used in a movie....... I do the same with my books - sometimes take real people's names and use them... Bernard Cornwell's character's name Richard Sharpe is the name of the son of one of his friends... even Harrison Ford is the name of a merchant banker from the 1800's....

I've done a double take to see a rellie's name in some movie...

Nothing unusual.

True for sure... Didn't Dickens collect odd and interesting surnames of real people for his characters?

But, given Holt's backstory, it's an in-joke...

So it wasn't a Soviet sub that picked him up from that beach... It was the CIA.
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Frank
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #35 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 12:05pm
 
What did the U.S. government actually do in Afghanistan and Iraq?  Only the things it really cares to or knows how to do—namely, richly to hire its favorite people to try reshaping mankind in their own image. Since WWII, whether in the name of anti-communism, anti-terrorism, democracy, or humanitarianism, it’s always the same: dismiss the substance of local quarrels; recast the local scene in terms of American elites’ concerns; find locals who agree, and form “coalition governments” that, supposedly, represent the people’s aspirations, regardless of what these might be; send in the American experts on everything from education to women’s rights, with their recipes and their billions of dollars; and treat as terrorists any locals who disagree strongly. 

Of the many reasons why this formula has always produced rejection, one is enough to explain the rest. The U.S. formula is purely administrative and even mercenary. It is without soul, wholly abstracting from traditions and affections, never mind from religion and systems of justice. Over the globe, through millennia, people have come together on a bewildering variety of bases. Seldom has mere administration served that purpose, even if competent, especially if by foreigners, and especially if in contradiction to customs.

https://americanmind.org/memo/graveyard-of-narratives/

Great article, well worth reading it all.

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freediver
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #36 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 7:10pm
 
Quote:
Of the many reasons why this formula has always produced rejection


You sure about that?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Frank
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #37 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 8:34pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 23rd, 2021 at 7:10pm:
Quote:
Of the many reasons why this formula has always produced rejection


You sure about that?


Yeah, I am very sure about that. Are you sure about what you are not sure about, fd? Or are you sure about what you are not sure about me being not sure about, fd?




There seemed to be no use in waiting by the little door, so she went back to the table, half hoping she might find another key on it, or at any rate a book of rules for shutting people up like telescopes: this time she found a little bottle on it, (`which certainly was not here before,' said Alice,) and round the neck of the bottle was a paper label, with the words `DRINK ME' beautifully printed on it in large letters.


It was all very well to say `Drink me,' but the wise little Alice was not going to do that in a hurry. `No, I'll look first,' she said, `and see whether it's marked "poison" or not'; for she had read several nice little histories about children who had got burnt, and eaten up by wild beasts and other unpleasant things, all because they would not remember the simple rules their friends had taught them: such as, that a red-hot poker will burn you if you hold it too long; and that if you cut your finger very deeply with a knife, it usually bleeds; and she had never forgotten that, if you drink much from a bottle marked `poison,' it is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later.

However, this bottle was not marked `poison,' so Alice ventured to taste it, and finding it very nice, (it had, in fact, a sort of mixed flavour of cherry-tart, custard, pine-apple, roast turkey, toffee, and hot buttered toast,) she very soon finished it off.




Not what's in YOUR bottle, fd.





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Frank
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #38 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 8:48pm
 
Interval to how it begiun the begin and began and so forth







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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #39 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 9:10pm
 
The South Koreans seem to have taken to democracy.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #40 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 9:21pm
 
wombatwoody wrote on Sep 7th, 2021 at 12:14pm:
Gore Vidal, a leading US columnist, put it very bluntly:

“As it proved, the conquest of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Osama. He was simply a pretext for replacing the Taliban with a relatively stable government that would allow Union Oil of California to lay its pipeline for the profit of, among others, the Cheney-Bush junta.”

https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html




They had to invade Afghanistan, they couldn't invade Egypt could they.
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Frank
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #41 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 10:12pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Sep 23rd, 2021 at 9:21pm:
wombatwoody wrote on Sep 7th, 2021 at 12:14pm:
Gore Vidal, a leading US columnist, put it very bluntly:

“As it proved, the conquest of Afghanistan had nothing to do with Osama. He was simply a pretext for replacing the Taliban with a relatively stable government that would allow Union Oil of California to lay its pipeline for the profit of, among others, the Cheney-Bush junta.”

https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html




They had to invade Afghanistan, they couldn't invade Egypt could they.

So...... where's the pipeline?

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Frank
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #42 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 10:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 23rd, 2021 at 9:10pm:
The South Koreans seem to have taken to democracy.

Oh! Look over there, fd!!


Birdie!!!!

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #43 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 10:15pm
 
Birdie num num?
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Afghanistan: How it Began And Back to the Future
Reply #44 - Sep 23rd, 2021 at 11:17pm
 
It's the label on the bottle that counts - "Drink entire - Against The Madness of Crowds"

Hoo-Rah!
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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