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Discrimination with unvaccinated people (Read 8553 times)
Jasin
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #60 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:12pm
 
rhino wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 9:45am:
Jasin wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 9:39am:
Long before Covid or even SARS.

....many Administrations in the Medical Industry were trying to use Legality clout to force Workers to take an Anti-Flu/Cold Vaccine jab every year. In fact, this 'Jab' was being flogged off like Hair Tonic, with the threat of dismissal by Admins in the Health Industry itself, if a worker did not display proof of a jab.

. .
Ive worked in Hospitals quite a lot over the years and no one ever mentioned  the flu jab apart from the annual offer of a free jab, no coercion detected. . And theres no "legal clout" to force anyone to take a flu jab. if you take note of what is happening in the world around  you they are now actually having to invent those restrictions  specifically for this Covid19 virus.

There were hundreds of cases of workers in Hospitals and Aged Care facilities long before Corona who were 'legally' compromised with their employment, if they did not get the (might work) Flu Shot. It's almost a precedent for what Scomo has done to the country.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #61 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:17pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:12pm:
never let a good crisis go to waste.

the same thing happened post 9/11.

20 years after, you still wouldnt dare go into an airport and start cracking jokes or teasing the security guys.

you have been trained to be submissive
you have been trained to obey
you have been trained to comply and be an automaton.
you have been trained to do exactly what the state says.
if they want to strip search your 5 yo daughter, you wouldnt speak up.


it will be the same with this new found authority with regards to health (which was always seen as a personal right) in 20 years time.
the position wont be unwound

Being the spawn of poor white trash, (who, no doubt in their turn were also the spawn of poor white trash), you can only imagine an Orwellian world where you are sewage and all others above your status are the removalists of sewage.
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #62 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:19pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:11pm:
aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:08pm:
i agree completely.

north would have been a good little nazi in 1939, dobbing in suspicious behaviour at the frank household to try and get anne frank dealt with appropriately.
he would have seen it as his duty to help "cleanse" his environement and keep his society "safe"

Apart from that being offensive, it proves you're not the thinker you imagine yourself to be... To fall for reductio ad Hitlerum for effect without a point other than to shock proves that.

You'll always be the son of poor white trash... You know that and so does anyone who reads your posts.



you can label me deplorable if you like

just channel hilary  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #63 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:23pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:19pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:11pm:
aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:08pm:
i agree completely.

north would have been a good little nazi in 1939, dobbing in suspicious behaviour at the frank household to try and get anne frank dealt with appropriately.
he would have seen it as his duty to help "cleanse" his environement and keep his society "safe"

Apart from that being offensive, it proves you're not the thinker you imagine yourself to be... To fall for reductio ad Hitlerum for effect without a point other than to shock proves that.

You'll always be the son of poor white trash... You know that and so does anyone who reads your posts.

you can label me deplorable if you like

Happy to...

You don't seriously think your use of Steve and Janine (whom you disparage as deplorable whenever you can) doesn't tell us that they're in your bloodline.
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Bias_2012
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #64 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:07pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:08pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 11:55am:
Authoritarianism, that's what we have at the moment, and "divide & conquer" can be applied in that also. Select a group (non vaxxed) and go after them, get the vaxxed on-side to assist. If things are still not going well for you, go after the non vaxxed even more, with even more hostility, until the vaxxed are mostly doing the job for you ..... and that's exactly what's happening now ... then the Covid incompetent politicians just sit back and watch the tactic take effect in the community

"Divide and Conquer", a jurassic political tactic as old as the hills - we never wake up to it

A few flaws in your logic...

No Australian politician engineered the pandemic.

Mark McGowan is the only Australian political leader who has benefitted politically from the pandemic, so if it was a mass political conspiracy (which it isn't) it is an abject failure.

In early 2020, all Australian political leaders were confused by what course of action should be taken... i.e. there was no conspiratorial plan as how to deal with the problem, either for or against their political interests.

The need to align to a singular world strategy for the next step though the pandemic is obvious, so the actions that need to be taken by Australian politicians could be against their immediate political interests (particularly if there are logistical cock-ups, which there almost certainly will be). This is particularly true of Mark McGowan who, no doubt, would be happy to continue with state isolation for maybe another year.

While you can always evoke the cynical political quip: 'never let a disaster go to waste', in reality disasters are political tornadoes in that they cannot be controlled such that the politician can guarantee and advantageous outcome.



And there's a flaw in your post ... it's not what I was talking about ... you wrote all that for nothing



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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #65 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:16pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:07pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:08pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 11:55am:
Authoritarianism, that's what we have at the moment, and "divide & conquer" can be applied in that also. Select a group (non vaxxed) and go after them, get the vaxxed on-side to assist. If things are still not going well for you, go after the non vaxxed even more, with even more hostility, until the vaxxed are mostly doing the job for you ..... and that's exactly what's happening now ... then the Covid incompetent politicians just sit back and watch the tactic take effect in the community

"Divide and Conquer", a jurassic political tactic as old as the hills - we never wake up to it

A few flaws in your logic...

No Australian politician engineered the pandemic.

Mark McGowan is the only Australian political leader who has benefitted politically from the pandemic, so if it was a mass political conspiracy (which it isn't) it is an abject failure.

In early 2020, all Australian political leaders were confused by what course of action should be taken... i.e. there was no conspiratorial plan as how to deal with the problem, either for or against their political interests.

The need to align to a singular world strategy for the next step though the pandemic is obvious, so the actions that need to be taken by Australian politicians could be against their immediate political interests (particularly if there are logistical cock-ups, which there almost certainly will be). This is particularly true of Mark McGowan who, no doubt, would be happy to continue with state isolation for maybe another year.

While you can always evoke the cynical political quip: 'never let a disaster go to waste', in reality disasters are political tornadoes in that they cannot be controlled such that the politician can guarantee and advantageous outcome.



And there's a flaw in your post ... it's not what I was talking about ... you wrote all that for nothing

Apart from Mark McGowan (who accidentally benefited due to the state's isolation) , no Australian politician has benefited politically from the pandemic nor from any actions to ameliorate it.

It does not follow that because politicians must act in the event of a disaster is evidence that they are doing so for cynical reasons. Had they engineered the disaster, then you may have a point.

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« Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:22pm by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #66 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:43pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:16pm:
It does not follow that because politicians must act in the event of a disaster presumes that they are doing so for cynical reasons. Had they engineered the disaster, then you may have a point.



They didn't have to engineer it to act cynically, they only had to believe there was a certain way to fix it once it arrived on our doorstep ... and that belief was to get the population fully vaccinated ... and when resistance to that appeared, less than human language was employed. Brad Hazzard has been one of the worst offenders, next was Daniel Andrews. The language was essentially "divide and conquer" language, playing one group against the other

The WA Premier was praised for his snap lockdowns ... and that is the more popular method according to consensus of opinion. Did he try playing any group against other groups, like other politicians have done with vaccination?
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #67 - Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:57pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:43pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:16pm:
It does not follow that because politicians must act in the event of a disaster presumes that they are doing so for cynical reasons. Had they engineered the disaster, then you may have a point.



They didn't have to engineer it to act cynically, they only had to believe there was a certain way to fix it once it arrived on our doorstep ... and that belief was to get the population fully vaccinated ... and when resistance to that appeared, less than human language was employed. Brad Hazzard has been one of the worst offenders, next was Daniel Andrews. The language was essentially "divide and conquer" language, playing one group against the other

The WA Premier was praised for his snap lockdowns ... and that is the more popular method according to consensus of opinion. Did he try playing any group against other groups, like other politicians have done with vaccination?

Yes, politicians are expected to fix disasters... And there's always an unrealistic expectation that they will do so perfectly.

No perfect management of a disaster can be determined when one begins... This is true of nearly every disaster in history.

Usually there's a flailing around to understand the problem in the first place, followed by a plan to deal with it... Unfortunately there usually can't be multiple plans that contradict the expected outcomes or procedures of other plans, nor can politicians ask the 'gods' for a reset, to manage it better (not, at least, and expect an answer, let alone approval).

Much less than a conspiracy theory proved, history proves it's nearly always the cock-up theory that easily explains the shortcomings of a plan to manage a disaster.

To assume that politicians are omniscient and omnipotent when it comes to managing a disaster (such that they have time to act cynically in their political favour) is to unjustifiably apotheosise them.
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #68 - Oct 6th, 2021 at 6:06pm
 
The Fair Work Commission says that mandating vaccination by employers is not on:


[144] The science is clear that those who have recovered from COVID have at least the same level of protection from COVID as a person who has been vaccinated. There can be absolutely no legitimate basis, then, for mandating vaccination for this group of people.

[145] In short, there is no justifiable basis for employers to mandate COVID vaccinations to meet their health and safety obligations when other options are available to appropriately manage the risk.

...

Final comments

[179] Research in the context of COVID-19 has shown that many who are ‘vaccine-hesitant’ are well educated, work in the health care industry and have questions about how effective the vaccines are in stopping transmission, whether they are safe to take during pregnancy, or if they affect fertility. 37 A far safer and more democratic approach to addressing vaccine hesitancy, and therefore increasing voluntary vaccination uptake, lies in better education, addressing specific and often legitimate concerns that people may hold, and promoting genuine informed consent. It does not lie in censoring differing opinions or removing rights and civil liberties that are fundamental in a democratic nation. It certainly does not lie in the use of highly coercive, undemocratic and unethical mandates.

[180] The statements by politicians that those who are not vaccinated are a threat to public health and should be “locked out of society” and denied the ability to work are not measures to protect public health. They are not about public health and not justified because they do not address the actual risk of COVID. These measures can only be about punishing those who choose not to be vaccinated. If the purpose of the PHOs is genuinely to reduce the spread of COVID, there is no basis for locking out people who do not have COVID, which is easily established by a rapid antigen test. Conversely, a vaccinated person who contracts COVID should be required to isolate until such time as they have recovered.

[181] Blanket rules, such as mandating vaccinations for everyone across a whole profession or industry regardless of the actual risk, fail the tests of proportionality, necessity and reasonableness. It is more than the absolute minimum necessary to combat the crisis and cannot be justified on health grounds. It is a lazy and fundamentally flawed approach to risk management and should be soundly rejected by courts when challenged.


[182] All Australians should vigorously oppose the introduction of a system of medical apartheid and segregation in Australia. It is an abhorrent concept and is morally and ethically wrong, and the anthesis of our democratic way of life and everything we value.

[183] Australians should also vigorously oppose the ongoing censorship of any views that question the current policies regarding COVID. Science is no longer science if it a person is not allowed to question it.


[184] Finally, all Australians, including those who hold or are suspected of holding “anti-vaccination sentiments”, are entitled to the protection of our laws, including the protections afforded by the Fair Work Act. In this regard, one can only hope that the Majority Decision is recognised as an anomaly and not followed by others.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/decisionssigned/html/2021fwcfb6015.htm



Thank you linesmen, thank you ball boys.

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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #69 - Oct 8th, 2021 at 9:26am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 12:34pm:
Quote:
Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says


August 5, 2021

Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can pass it on, US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Thursday. 

“Our vaccines are working exceptionally well,” Walensky told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer in reference to fully vaccinated people who get breakthrough infections. “They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death – they prevent it.But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission.”

CDC provided data last week that showed how fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can carry essentially that same amount of virus as an unvaccinated person, allowing them to transmit the virus just like an unvaccinated person can.

That is why the CDC is recommending even vaccinated people wear masks indoors again, Walensky said.

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-05-...



If you fear unvaccinated people you have an irrational fear.


What did the CDC say about this on 5th August?

Quote:
No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant


Abstract
We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta. Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including masking and testing, should be considered for all in settings with elevated COVID-19 transmission.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1


Vaccine passports achieve nothing the fake news claim being vaccinated will reduce transmission the idiots fall for it hook line and sinker.

Our politicians don't follow the science on this they make policy on what will keep them elected rather than following what science says.

These vaccine passports will achieve nothing they will be an expensive mistake giving people a false sense of security.

When you catch this virus your vaccination status makes no difference with transmitting it. Science deniers will ignore this fact.
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #70 - Oct 8th, 2021 at 1:44pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 12:34pm:
We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are.

There are many reasons why people aren't vaccinated ranging from
availability, medical reasons and personal
choice.

Vaccine passports will achieve nothing




There were a LOT availability issues in in the early days -
but this is now, almost, no longer a valid
excuse

Doctors are currently being bombarded with demands for 'medical certificates'  - to loophole a vaccine exemption
It seems there are people there who have a serious reaction to vaccines - without ever having had one before
Perhaps any new certificates cite "unatural phobia, bordering on mental impairment"  as the opt out reason


I wouldn't see "personal choice" - or being a
new recruit or "born again anti-vaxxer"
as holding much credibility



REGARDLESS, the Fair Work Commission has ALREADY ruled that an employer has EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to demand an prospective employee be bound by "Terms and Conditions of Employment"

No JAB - No JOB




"Terms and Conditions of Employment" in a work contract are nothing new
The annual 'flu' shot has been included in MANY employment contracts - over many decades


Making this government "passport" idea, obsolete
(but not before the feds have spent a billion or two - setting it up





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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #71 - Oct 8th, 2021 at 2:56pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 1:03pm:
they created a class of "other" called the unvaccinated

in days not too distant this would have been the jews in nazi germany but its the same principle




And many THOUSANDS died of typhoid


- not only Jews, though you'd be excused for thinking their's were the only lives that mattered, as 'history books' tell the tale


If ONLY they'd all had tyyphoid vaccinations





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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #72 - Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 1:44pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 12:34pm:
We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are.

There are many reasons why people aren't vaccinated ranging from
availability, medical reasons and personal
choice.

Vaccine passports will achieve nothing




There were a LOT availability issues in in the early days -
but this is now, almost, no longer a valid
excuse

Doctors are currently being bombarded with demands for 'medical certificates'  - to loophole a vaccine exemption
It seems there are people there who have a serious reaction to vaccines - without ever having had one before
Perhaps any new certificates cite "unatural phobia, bordering on mental impairment"  as the opt out reason


I wouldn't see "personal choice" - or being a
new recruit or "born again anti-vaxxer"
as holding much credibility



REGARDLESS, the Fair Work Commission has ALREADY ruled that an employer has EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to demand an prospective employee be bound by "Terms and Conditions of Employment"

No JAB - No JOB




"Terms and Conditions of Employment" in a work contract are nothing new
The annual 'flu' shot has been included in MANY employment contracts - over many decades


Making this government "passport" idea, obsolete
(but not before the feds have spent a billion or two - setting it up







NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports.


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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #73 - Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:48am
 
Excluding unvaccinated people from society is something pushed by leftist control freaks there is no scientific justification for this.

These ignorant control freaks are science deniers if they claim unvaccinated people are a risk for spreading this virus when the evidence shows there is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus. These control freaks are spreading dangerous misinformation.

The data clearly shows aysmptomatic vaccinated people can be superspreaders without even realising it.


Quote:
Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination


Outbreak investigations suggest that vaccinated persons can spread Delta 3,4.

Combined with other studies 2–5, these data indicate that vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals infected with the Delta variant might transmit infection. Importantly, we show that infectious SARS-CoV-2 is frequently found even in vaccinated persons when specimen Ct values are low.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full-text



For the idiots who pretend to understand science and claim this is only a pre print that hasn't been peer reviewed they should listen to Fauci who confirms this as graphs in link comparing vaxxed and unvaxxed are very similar to CDC data. https://twitter.com/PuntersForum/status/1434151697216016392

I disagree with Fauci on Delta changing everything specialists like Geert Vandenbosch have said this has always been the case.
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Re: Discrimination with unvaccinated people
Reply #74 - Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm:
NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports.






Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave.
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