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Socialism (Read 13485 times)
Dnarever
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Re: Socialism
Reply #225 - Dec 20th, 2021 at 10:27am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 4:07pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 6:57am:
The same sort of oppression is happening in current socialist countries like China. 


test



China is led by their communist party and consider themselves as communist not socialist.

China have been moving towards a market economy for a few decades now so there is not a definitive answer here.
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Re: Socialism
Reply #226 - Dec 20th, 2021 at 10:28am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 4:58pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 3:59pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 18th, 2021 at 12:15pm:
The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956 An Experiment In Literary Investigation, by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, copyright 1973

Excerpted from Volume II, Part III – The Destructive-Labor Camps – Chapter 10. In Place of Politicals

(Solzhenitsyn is discussing the “58’s”, or so-called “political” prisoners.)



Er... what's any of this ancient history in the USSR got to do with achieving sustainable common prosperity in the 21st century and beyond?

Socialism IN PRACTICE.



It was communism in practice.
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Re: Socialism
Reply #227 - Dec 20th, 2021 at 10:34am
 
Jasin wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 4:56pm:
Australia will succeed, where the USSR failed.


Australia have never been socialist or communist, Australia do not currently have any communist or socialist movements of significant influence.

Australian politics is not influenced by socialism or communism and has not been in over 70 years if ever.

There has not been a prominent socialist politician in Australia for many decades.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Socialism
Reply #228 - Dec 20th, 2021 at 12:51pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
[quote]And you know this how? Chinese government survey? 


No, the fact reported by the democracy-ideologue rag the  SCMP (based in Hong Kong) , that Chinese students are preferring to return from the West, to live in China.



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Re: Socialism
Reply #229 - Dec 20th, 2021 at 12:54pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
And you know this how? Chinese government survey?

test

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Socialism
Reply #230 - Dec 20th, 2021 at 12:56pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
ABC .......


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Re: Socialism
Reply #231 - Dec 21st, 2021 at 1:06pm
 
...
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Re: Socialism
Reply #232 - Dec 22nd, 2021 at 12:42pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 21st, 2021 at 1:06pm:


Please bring yourself into the 21st century.

Note how share markets dived in Chile, on the prospect of the election of a Leftist president, who wants to eradicate poverty and reduce inequality in Chile. 

Disgusting 'free market' capitalism ; as always, the rich are determined to preserve their fake ponzi-asset privileges at all costs, despite Chile being one of the most unequal societies   

So Gabriel Boric has to promise 'a steady hand' to maintain order in the country...code for avoiding another fascist Right-wing coup a la Pinochet...meaning he will not be able to  achieve the  changes he was elected to achieve. 

And so the greedy, 'freedom loving', rich, 'democrats' will block any change in the near 50-50 parliament, because self interest is always more powerful than achieving the common welfare.





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Re: Socialism
Reply #233 - Dec 22nd, 2021 at 12:43pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20th, 2021 at 12:56pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
ABC .......


test

test
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Re: Socialism
Reply #234 - Dec 22nd, 2021 at 12:43pm
 
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Re: Socialism
Reply #235 - May 28th, 2024 at 12:05pm
 
The masterpiece of our time

by  Gary Saul Morson
On The Gulag Archipelago at fifty.

When Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago: An Experiment in Literary Investigation appeared in 1973, its impact, the author recalled, was immediate: “Like matter enveloped by antimatter, it exploded instantaneously!” The first translations into Western languages in 1974—just fifty years ago—proved almost as sensational. No longer was it so easy to cherish a sentimental attachment to communism and the ussr. In France, where Marxism had remained fashionable, the book changed the course of intellectual life, and in America it helped counter the New Left celebration of Mao, Castro, and other disciples of Marx, Lenin, and Stalin.

What was it that made this book so effective? And what did Solzhenitsyn mean by calling it “literary,” even though everything in it was factual? To answer these questions is to grasp why Gulag towers over all other works of the Soviet period and, indeed, over all literature since the middle of the twentieth century.

Before Solzhenitsyn, Western intellectuals of course knew that the Soviet regime had been “repressive,” but for the most part they imagined that all that had ended decades ago. So it was shocking when the book described how it had to be written secretly, with parts scattered so that not everything could be seized in a single raid. Solzhenitsyn offered an apology for the work’s lack of polish: “I must explain that never once did this whole book . . . lie on the same desk at the same time!” “The jerkiness of the book, its imperfections, are the true mark of our persecuted literature.” Since this persecution is itself one of the work’s themes, its imperfections are strangely appropriate and so, perhaps, not imperfections at all.

In 1965, Solzhenitsyn explains, “my archive was raided [by the secret police] and a novel impounded,” and thus he had to be especially careful with Gulag, since his notes for it mentioned the real names of his informants. In Russia, literature was not only persecuted but also dangerous, and not just to the writers. The fact that the book could not be published in the ussr and had to be smuggled abroad also marked the difference between the Russian and Western experiences. Russian literature was morally serious in a way American, British, and French literatures were not. The preening of Western intellectuals about social injustice began to look almost ridiculous by comparison.

https://newcriterion.com/article/the-masterpiece-of-our-time/
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Re: Socialism
Reply #236 - May 30th, 2024 at 1:16pm
 
People never knew when they might be arrested, or by whom, and so “there was a general feeling of being destined for destruction.” Since failure to denounce was itself a crime, and stool pigeons were everywhere, one could trust no one. In theory, socialism brought people together, but in fact it created complete atomization and utter loneliness. So anxious did some people become that arrest brought relief “and even happiness!”

What is the point of such cruelty? Why so many arbitrary arrests, and why so much energy spent on extracting unbelievable confessions that no one would ever see? Some have explained the system economically, as a source of slave labor, but Solzhenitsyn shows that the gigantic expense incurred by the state furnishing countless interrogators and guards, transport, watchtowers, and barbed wire ensured that the system never paid its way. What economic sense did it make to take a scientist with years of training and deport him to the far north to dig frozen earth and die soon of exhaustion and hunger? If one wanted to eliminate enemies, wouldn’t it be easier just to shoot them all? And why arrest people who were completely loyal? One difference between the ussr and the Third Reich was that Germans who were neither Jews nor members of some other disfavored group, and who supported the regime, did not have to live in constant fear of arrest.

Soviet terror was an end in itself. Torture alone was not cruel enough, Solzhenitsyn points out. No, the goal was absolute dehumanization, reducing people to quivering masses of flesh who had forgotten who they were and who had lost the ability to feel normal emotions one by one until only anger was left. George Orwell understood this aspect of the regime as other Western observers did not. The new society, O’Brien explains to Winston Smith in Nineteen Eighty-Four, is

the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. . . . Always, at every moment, there will be . . . the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face—forever.
https://newcriterion.com/article/the-masterpiece-of-our-time/
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Re: Socialism
Reply #237 - Jun 18th, 2024 at 4:54pm
 
Frank wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 12:05pm:
The masterpiece of our time

by  Gary Saul Morson
On The Gulag Archipelago at fifty.


Er... the topic isn't "the Gulag", it's  "socialism" ie government on behalf of the prosperity of all individuals in the collective, as opposed to government serving the interests of the  most competitve individuals in neoliberal markets, while forcing the least competitive onto the unemployment scrap heap.

See the errors you make whn you don't define "socialism".   

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Re: Socialism
Reply #238 - Jun 18th, 2024 at 6:10pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 18th, 2024 at 4:54pm:
Frank wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 12:05pm:
The masterpiece of our time

by  Gary Saul Morson
On The Gulag Archipelago at fifty.


Er... the topic isn't "the Gulag", it's  "socialism" ie government on behalf of the prosperity of all individuals in the collective, as opposed to government serving the interests of the  most competitve individuals in neoliberal markets, while forcing the least competitive onto the unemployment scrap heap.

See the errors you make whn you don't define "socialism".   


The gulag is one of the 'gifts' of socialism.
They have them in EVERY socialist paradise. It is one of socialism's most predictable fruits - and by their fruits ye shall know them.



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Re: Socialism
Reply #239 - Jun 19th, 2024 at 12:47pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 18th, 2024 at 6:10pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 18th, 2024 at 4:54pm:
Frank wrote on May 28th, 2024 at 12:05pm:
The masterpiece of our time

by  Gary Saul Morson
On The Gulag Archipelago at fifty.


Er... the topic isn't "the Gulag", it's  "socialism" ie government on behalf of the prosperity of all individuals in the collective, as opposed to government serving the interests of the  most competitve individuals in neoliberal markets, while forcing the least competitive onto the unemployment scrap heap.

See the errors you make whn you don't define "socialism".   


The gulag is one of the 'gifts' of socialism.
They have them in EVERY socialist paradise. It is one of socialism's most predictable fruits - and by their fruits ye shall know them.


Blaming Marx for the Gulag is like blaming Christ for the Spanish Inquisition.
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