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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 47512 Gender:	Re: Socialism Reply #30 - Nov 4^th, 2021 at 9:25pm Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 4^th, 2021 at 9:00pm: Frank .... I absolutely love your work! What did you study at Uni? I was fortunate to study "the the psychology of the individual" with Professor Jeeves under the guidance of Mr Wodehouse.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49368 At my desk.	Re: Socialism Reply #31 - Nov 4^th, 2021 at 9:34pm freediver wrote on Nov 4^th, 2021 at 6:19pm: Quote: Starting with the inevitable impoverishment of the proletariat in the most advanced capitalist countries Can you quote this prediction? Frank?
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Frank

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Re: Socialism
Reply #32 - Nov 4^th, 2021 at 9:36pm

freediver wrote on Nov 4^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

Quote:

Starting with the inevitable impoverishment of the proletariat in the most advanced capitalist countries

Can you quote this prediction?

https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/pe/pe-ch09.htm

I did provide this general marxist.org link before. You shouldn't be arguing about things you know fcc-all about FD and are not prepared to read up on.

But then there would be no ozpolitic forum.....

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Socialism
Reply #33 - Nov 5^th, 2021 at 1:06am

Socialism is a wide spectrum - what people seek to discuss is not true socialism, but a form of Fascism to cater to a self-appointed elite, and does that catering by utilising ever facet of the power of the state - the social - to attain that end for themselves.

That kind of thing is not socialism, but is more properly Stalinism and similar, and has all the usual destructive elements of any extreme ideology.

An ideology is a system of thoughts - not a science - and has as much bearing to the real world as traveling to the moon by thought.

Socialism is not alone in being a rabid/extreme ideology - the ultimate Robber Baron capitalist idea, based on no facts, is that the Godly will prosper as a right, and any failure indicates a lack of Godliness....

Weird, but true - and as I said - a system of thoughts, not facts.

Extreme Socialism is no different from Extreme any other ideology.... Socialism pure is a melding of the needs and of people as a society, and is as far removed from Extremism as .... traveling to the moon via thought....

If the rope is too tight, it will break .... if it is too loose, it will not function..... there is middle ground.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Frank

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Re: Socialism
Reply #34 - Nov 5^th, 2021 at 9:29am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 5^th, 2021 at 1:06am:

Socialism is a wide spectrum - what people seek to discuss is not true socialism, but a form of Fascism to cater to a self-appointed elite, and does that catering by utilising ever facet of the power of the state - the social - to attain that end for themselves.

That kind of thing is not socialism, but is more properly Stalinism and similar, and has all the usual destructive elements of any extreme ideology.

An ideology is a system of thoughts - not a science - and has as much bearing to the real world as traveling to the moon by thought.

Socialism is not alone in being a rabid/extreme ideology - the ultimate Robber Baron capitalist idea, based on no facts, is that the Godly will prosper as a right, and any failure indicates a lack of Godliness....

Weird, but true - and as I said - a system of thoughts, not facts.

Extreme Socialism is no different from Extreme any other ideology.... Socialism pure is a melding of the needs and of people as a society, and is as far removed from Extremism as .... traveling to the moon via thought....

If the rope is too tight, it will break .... if it is too loose, it will not function..... there is middle ground.....

Thanks, HD!! Tongue

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
"The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59075 Here Gender:	Re: Socialism Reply #35 - Nov 5^th, 2021 at 10:40am John Smith wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 9:08pm: John Smith wrote on Oct 31^st, 2021 at 8:51pm: who invented socialism? sore end ... you claim that socialism is 'according to it's inventors, a scientific idea'. I'll ask again, who invented socialism? Wasn't soreend - that could have been haemorrhoids ?
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Dnarever

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Re: Socialism
Reply #36 - Nov 5^th, 2021 at 10:45am

Frank wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 9:06pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 31^st, 2021 at 9:28pm:

In the long term socialism is going to be known as the flawed system that died a little before the other flawed system capitalism.

Anyway socialism has been making a big comeback in recent years.

The US for instance is basically socialism for the rich.

Touch your left ear.
Touch your right ear.
Ooops, you shatt your pants.

Let's try again...
Touch your left ear.....

This might help ?

https://www.amazon.com.au/Comic-Toolbox-How-Funny-Youre/dp/1879505215/ref=pd_sbs...

How to be funny even if you're not

Please get some education and try again.

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Frank

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Re: Socialism
Reply #37 - Nov 5^th, 2021 at 11:10am

John Smith wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2021 at 8:56pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 9:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 9:08pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 31^st, 2021 at 8:51pm:

who invented socialism?

sore end ... you claim that socialism is 'according to it's inventors, a scientific idea'.

I'll ask again, who invented socialism?

'Scientific socialism' - the one that made all the 'scientific' predictions - Marx, Engels, Lenin.

socialsim was invented with the French revolution ... want to try again?

After all, if you're going to attribute something to the 'inventor', you should make sure they invented it.

How was that? How was socialism invented with the French revolution? Which one? THE French Revolution or some of the other French revolutions - they are excitable chappies, the frogs, their revolutions come about regularly: 1789, 1830, 1848, 1871, 1968. Which one? All of them?

" After all, if you're going to attribute something to the 'inventor', you should make sure you tell us who you mean, no?

But I am asking far too much of you, Gino. Gabagool? Have two.

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Frank

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Re: Socialism
Reply #38 - Nov 5^th, 2021 at 11:16am

https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps...

SCIENTIFIC SOCIALISM
The term scientific socialism was used by Friedrich Engels to characterize the doctrines that he and Karl Marx developed and distinguish them from other socialist doctrines, which he dismissed as utopian socialism. Engels regarded the Marx-Engels doctrines as scientific in that they laid bare the secret of capitalism through the discovery of surplus value, and explained (with a theory known in the USSR as historical materialism) how capitalism would inevitably be overthrown and replaced by socialism. The concept "scientific socialism" made Marxist doctrines more attractive to many than rival socialist doctrines by suggesting that equality and the end of exploitation were not only desirable but also inevitable.

Scientific socialism was introduced to Russia in the late ninenteenth century. After the Bolshevik victory in the civil war, scientific socialism became part of the official ideology of the USSR. The term itself was frequently used loosely to designate a doctrine concerning the development of a Soviet type of society. Much of the actual content of the doctrine varied over time in accordance with the concrete policies of the Soviet state.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Socialism
Reply #39 - Nov 5^th, 2021 at 9:55pm

Frank wrote on Nov 5^th, 2021 at 9:29am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 5^th, 2021 at 1:06am:

Socialism is a wide spectrum - what people seek to discuss is not true socialism, but a form of Fascism to cater to a self-appointed elite, and does that catering by utilising ever facet of the power of the state - the social - to attain that end for themselves.

That kind of thing is not socialism, but is more properly Stalinism and similar, and has all the usual destructive elements of any extreme ideology.

An ideology is a system of thoughts - not a science - and has as much bearing to the real world as traveling to the moon by thought.

Socialism is not alone in being a rabid/extreme ideology - the ultimate Robber Baron capitalist idea, based on no facts, is that the Godly will prosper as a right, and any failure indicates a lack of Godliness....

Weird, but true - and as I said - a system of thoughts, not facts.

Extreme Socialism is no different from Extreme any other ideology.... Socialism pure is a melding of the needs and of people as a society, and is as far removed from Extremism as .... traveling to the moon via thought....

If the rope is too tight, it will break .... if it is too loose, it will not function..... there is middle ground.....

Thanks, HD!! Tongue

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
"The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

This is a HD:-

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver

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Re: Socialism
Reply #40 - Nov 6^th, 2021 at 9:37am

Frank wrote on Nov 4^th, 2021 at 9:36pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 4^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

Quote:

Starting with the inevitable impoverishment of the proletariat in the most advanced capitalist countries

Can you quote this prediction?

https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/pe/pe-ch09.htm

I did provide this general marxist.org link before. You shouldn't be arguing about things you know fcc-all about FD and are not prepared to read up on.

But then there would be no ozpolitic forum.....

I am not arguing anything Frank. I am asking for a quote. Where is it?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Socialism
Reply #41 - Nov 6^th, 2021 at 10:21am

Frank wrote on Nov 5^th, 2021 at 11:16am:

https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps...

SCIENTIFIC SOCIALISM
The term scientific socialism was used by Friedrich Engels to characterize the doctrines that he and Karl Marx developed and distinguish them from other socialist doctrines, which he dismissed as utopian socialism. Engels regarded the Marx-Engels doctrines as scientific in that they laid bare the secret of capitalism through the discovery of surplus value, and explained (with a theory known in the USSR as historical materialism) how capitalism would inevitably be overthrown and replaced by socialism. The concept "scientific socialism" made Marxist doctrines more attractive to many than rival socialist doctrines by suggesting that equality and the end of exploitation were not only desirable but also inevitable.

Scientific socialism was introduced to Russia in the late ninenteenth century. After the Bolshevik victory in the civil war, scientific socialism became part of the official ideology of the USSR. The term itself was frequently used loosely to designate a doctrine concerning the development of a Soviet type of society. Much of the actual content of the doctrine varied over time in accordance with the concrete policies of the Soviet state.

That's actually a very worthy read.

My communist political economy professor at Sydney Uni (Professor Frank Stilwell) always used to dismiss anyone who attempted to differentiate btwn socialism and communism.

He'd always say :

Socialism/Communism? It's essentially the same thing; just a different pathway. The latter merely advocates radical revolution. That's all.

We used to just look at him and try not to be too alarmed. 😳

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HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Jim Lahey

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Re: Socialism
Reply #42 - Nov 6^th, 2021 at 10:34am

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 6^th, 2021 at 10:21am:

Frank wrote on Nov 5^th, 2021 at 11:16am:

https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps...

SCIENTIFIC SOCIALISM
The term scientific socialism was used by Friedrich Engels to characterize the doctrines that he and Karl Marx developed and distinguish them from other socialist doctrines, which he dismissed as utopian socialism. Engels regarded the Marx-Engels doctrines as scientific in that they laid bare the secret of capitalism through the discovery of surplus value, and explained (with a theory known in the USSR as historical materialism) how capitalism would inevitably be overthrown and replaced by socialism. The concept "scientific socialism" made Marxist doctrines more attractive to many than rival socialist doctrines by suggesting that equality and the end of exploitation were not only desirable but also inevitable.

Scientific socialism was introduced to Russia in the late ninenteenth century. After the Bolshevik victory in the civil war, scientific socialism became part of the official ideology of the USSR. The term itself was frequently used loosely to designate a doctrine concerning the development of a Soviet type of society. Much of the actual content of the doctrine varied over time in accordance with the concrete policies of the Soviet state.

That's actually a very worthy read.

My communist political economy professor at Sydney Uni (Professor Frank Stilwell) always used to dismiss anyone who attempted to differentiate btwn socialism and communism.

He'd always say :

Socialism/Communism? It's essentially the same thing; just a different pathway. The latter merely advocates radical revolution. That's all.

We used to just look at him and try not to be too alarmed. 😳

Just remember Moans, Socialism is what keeps you in dole and in that housing commission flat you are clogging up with all the grease and fats you pump into your fat mouth every day.

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John Smith

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Re: Socialism
Reply #43 - Nov 6^th, 2021 at 12:31pm

Frank wrote on Nov 5^th, 2021 at 11:10am:

How was that? How was socialism invented with the French revolution? Which one? THE French Revolution or some of the other French revolutions - they are excitable chappies, the frogs, their revolutions come about regularly: 1789, 1830, 1848, 1871, 1968. Which one? All of them?

Were Marx, Lenin and Engels involved in any of them? If not what does it matter which one?

god you're a moron

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Socialism Reply #44 - Nov 6^th, 2021 at 12:53pm John Smith wrote on Oct 31^st, 2021 at 8:51pm: who invented socialism? Stupid question. Nobody invented socialism. Socialism developed over time. Since ancient times in fact.
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