thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2021 at 4:55pm:


So dictators are the great evil?

But tell us of the good life in Venezuela.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2021 at 4:55pm:


Chuckles wouldn't. He has forever had a silver spoon.

lee wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2021 at 4:58pm:


No;   instinctive, irrational, self-interested (greedy) survival instincts masquerading as "freedom",  are the source of the evil in the world, if you want to know.  The solution is an international rules based system backed by a UNSC without veto. 

Quote:


Who said anything about Venezuela.... oh, the hyper-inflation thingy.....never mind...that, along with the Weimar Republic  and Zimbabwe  are the first topics that economic illiterates go to, when discussing MMT. 

Quote:


Nevertheless, Charles appreciates the finer things in life, loves the planet, and wants to get rid of the filthy fossil industry which is destroying it, whether by AGW or belching out poisonous filth into the atmosphere. 

lee wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2021 at 7:30pm:


My concept of 'UNSC without veto' implies its reform, including addition of Japan and Germany (the largest economies after the US and China) for a council of 7 permanent members, and maybe India and Indonesia for a council of 9 members, advised by an ICJ.

...to establish a true international rules-based system in which war is delegitimized as a means of dispute settlement between nations.

(...beware the conservative mind....)

Quote:


'Marxist'  Chavez won a democratic election. His popular socialist program was funded by export income reliant on the then high global price of oil.  When the global oil price collapsed, Chavez was unable to fund his socialist policies.

If Chavez had been MMT-literate, he would have recognized  the the loss of state income and its causes, and dealt with the problem other than by attempting to print money to purchase goods which were no longer available for purchase  (imported food, medicines etc)  because the  loss of export income meant the state could no longer afford these essential imports,  hence the hyperinflation. Now...an MMT literate IMF could have assisted Venezuela with a managed transition from a 'one-trick' economy (dependent on the global oil price) to a more diverse economy, including eg, creation of import  substitution industry etc.
But in our dog eat dog world....

Quote:


Aircraft will be among the last mode of transport  to go green; meanwhile  countries aren't ditching the monarchy (going republican)  every week.

Quote:


No, not in its entirety. That quote was in relation to my point re government funding in a pandemic enforced lock-down, to illustrate the insanity of forcing the currency issuer to tax or borrow from the private sector, to keep locked-down workers alive, when there is no  permanent  loss of the economy's productive capacity, which is available for reactivation after the lock-down is lifted.
I accept your admission of misunderstanding the point,  in this case.

Quote:


To repeat: A currency-issuer doesn't need to tax in order to spend, you should know that by now. Taxes may be required for other purposes, but the currency-issuer doesn't need taxes in order to spend. Apparently you think any spending of money created by the currency-issuer and spent by the currency issuer will create inflation...you are wrong. The inflation constraint for a currency-issuer is availability of resources, not the money supply

Still want to deny what my position has been all along?

Quote:


The slavery abolitionists faced the same problem of conservative self-interest and inertia...and won, eventually. That's what works for me.

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 4^th, 2021 at 1:20pm:


The cross-bench independents, in combination with the Greens, might well be in a position  to determine policy after next federal election, because  both the major parties are on the nose with the electorate.

The Greens blokes are all weedy, yappy beta gits, attracting all the Greens women who are shrill, bossy, damaged.

And of course they sacked the foreign oil engineers and put the Generals in place. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

lee wrote on Dec 4^th, 2021 at 3:04pm:


No.  7 or 9 permanent members, taking advice from an International Court of Justice.  Note the number: the majority vote carries the day...which is the basis of 'rule of law'. 

Of course you,  true to the sovereignty of the individual, survival of the fittest ideology, want YOUR  opinion to "control  the world"....whereas I am willing to submit to rule of law in my own nation; and submit to international law involving relations with other nations.

Quote:


Yes, because the IMF, the institution which should have dealt with problems arising from oil price instability - not Venezuela's  fault - is an American profit-seeking stooge. The world doesn't have an effective international assistance mechanism, just as the world doesn't have an effective international rules based system...because of the  delusional "freedom "values-based " BS of the West. 

In fact the US rejected Keynes proposal for a new global financial system post WW2 (see Keynes' 'clearing union' and 'bankor' concepts to deal with problems in international trade). Another example of the pernicious influence of US classical liberal ideology. 

Quote:


1. "Prevented the entry of stronger foreign currencies into Venezuela " What on earth does that mean? Foreign currencies are useless for the citizens of a given country, obviously, unless they all decide to buy a foreign currency with - what?

2. "overspending (!) on social programs"

ie Chavez should have returned to the previous status quo before the oil price collapse...... with 50% of the population living in poverty, and a tiny minority controlling the nation's wealth. ....

3. "Did not save enough money" to deal with an oil price collapse, yes...risky in a world without some sort of Keynesian scheme as mentioned above.

Your quote was obviously written by an orthodox stooge without any understanding of MMT. 

Quote:


There may be a niche for them; but:

https://supplychaindigital.com/logistics-1/boeings-new-freight-plane-runs-renewa
ble-energy

"The biggest news surrounding this new freight plane is that Boeing will fly the plane to Paris from the United States using a renewable aviation jet fuel. The trip will mark the world’s first transatlantic crossing of a commercial jet using biologically derived fuel".

O ye of little faith...


Quote:

Now you have ceased debating the point, because  you know you will lose.
Any reader can see my latter statement - which you claim represents a change of mind on my part - and which you implicitly acknowledge as correct since you can't (or haven't bothered to) find fault with it - represents  my understanding of MMT which has been consistent all along.

Quote:


Wherever, or whatever time (1247?) it was  from, NO TAXES refers to no taxes required in order for the currency issuer to spend debt free money... which has been the MMT revelation I have presented all along.

Have a shot at debating THAT matter, not the chronology of your misunderstanding of the concept.

Namely:

1. The currency issuer can purchase [b]whatever is available for purchase in the nation's own currency, without taxing or borrowing from the private sector. [/b] The limit to the spending is outlined in that statement.

Quote:


The abolitionists  won the debate in the UK parliament in the 19th century, and slavery was outlawed; and later in the 20th century, any ongoing slavery around the world is illegal according to the UN Charter. 

But guess who IS preventing the establishment of an international rules-based system which WOULD eliminate illegal slavery....warning: don't look in a mirror, it will shatter into a million pieces....

lee wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 1:10pm:


The later institution of the larger number non-permanent rotating members was an attempt to  deal with the fact the UNSC with veto is powerless.   

Quote:


Plus advice from the world's greatest jurists in a (reformed)  ICJ.

Note: "being ruled by" - in the the case of the UNSC -  means submitting to rule of law in international affairs only.

Nations can still carry on with their own (often silly) internal debates eg on abortion, gun control, gay rights,  CRT, marriage rights, etc etc; the UNSC is not interested in adjudicating these internal affairs. .

So smarten up your definition of "being ruled by"....

Quote:


???

1. if you are referring to the present IMF, it doesn't fund  fund ANY private sector energy development.

2. it's NOT controlled by the UN

3. Your ideological   individual sovereignty argument again; which is why Keynes proposals to engender prosperous development in all  nations was rejected, in favour of chaotic,  survival of the fittest,   competition


Quote:


The oil price -  in US dollars -  collapsed. So Venezuelan US debt became un-payable by Venezuela.

Quote:

Unlike you I can debate arguments put forward on Wiki, by various contending schools of economics 

Quote:


You should know my concerns re CO2 by now...but certainly the elimination of filthy poisonous fossil pollution is a good thing.

Quote:


The only thing consistent is your misunderstanding; taxes only if required  to control spending, taxes are NOT required to initiate spending, by the debt-free currency issuer.  read on.

Quote:


No it doesn't.  MMT reverses the order of taxation, from tax (or borrow) first, then spend (the mainstream flat-earth orthodoxy); to spend first, then tax (if necessary, may not be necessary), the MMT revelation.

Note: the currency issuer never needs to borrow in its own currency, another MMT revelation.

See: Mosler's '7 deadly innocent frauds of (orthodox) economic policy'. 

Quote:


In UN resolutions etc but routinely ignored by everyone. Law which is not enforced (eg, by a UNSC without veto)  is not rule of law at all,  but chaos, as evidenced by our broken world.

Quote:


We are living in exciting times. A 'socialist' state will soon become the largest economy in the world; and that state will see, inter alia,  the advantage of elimination a nuclear arms race. That's when Doc Evatt's original vision for the UN will be realized.