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Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies (Read 4700 times)

lee

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #30 - Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:51pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

Nations can still carry on with their own (often silly) internal debates on abortion, gun control, CRT, marriage rights, etc etc; the UNSC is not interested in adjudicating these internal affairs. .

But slavery is an "internal affair". Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

1. if you are referring to the present IMF, it doesn't fund fund ANY private sector energy development.

"The hidden flows of finance to fossil fuels: World Bank and IMF edition"

https://foe.org/blog/finance-to-fossil-fuels-world-bank-imf/

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

2. it's NOT controlled by the UN

"The International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank are institutions in the United Nations system. "

https://www.imf.org/en/About/Factsheets/Sheets/2016/07/27/15/31/IMF-World-Bank

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

The oil price - in US dollars - collapsed. So Venezuelan US debt became unpayble by Venezuela.

And rebounded. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

Unlike you I can debate arguments put forward on Wiki, by contending schools of economics

And yet you have no proof of concept. It is not even a theory. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

You should know my concerns re CO2 by now...but certainly the elimination of filthy poisonous fossil pollution is a good thing.

So you would prefer the filthy poisonous renewable jet fuel. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

In UN resolutions etc but routinely ignored by everyone. Law which is not enforced (eg, by a UNSC without veto) is not rule of law at all, but chaos, as evidenced by our broken world

And yet you want to prolong this "brokeness". Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

A 'socialist' state will soon become the largest economy in the world; and that state will see, inter alia, the advantage of elimination a nuclear arms race.

So whose money are hey going to spend. Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #31 - Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm

lee wrote on Dec 5^th, 2021 at 2:51pm:

But slavery is an "internal affair"

No it's not, it's illegal; so violations of the UNUDHR will need to be addressed by the ICJ.(after reform of the UN, see below) Btw, article 25 of the UNUDHR requires universal access to above poverty employment (just to engage your conservative brain...)

But we must institute reform to enable the UN system to function as originally envisioned, eg by ditching the veto imposed on the UNSC by an evil 'sovereignty of the individual' classical Western ideology.

Quote:

"The hidden flows of finance to fossil fuels: World Bank and IMF edition"

https://foe.org/blog/finance-to-fossil-fuels-world-bank-imf/

Well whadaya know, the evil US stooge (ie, Instant Misery Fund) is funding filthy fossils, I'm not surprised, actually. The IMF is supposed to assist nations to deal with debt problems (which it never does, it always makes things worse for any nation unfortunate enough to be forced to seek assistance.

Quote:

"The International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank are institutions in the United Nations system. "

https://www.imf.org/en/About/Factsheets/Sheets/2016/07/27/15/31/IMF-World-Bank

Indeed...part of the 'UNSC without veto' system, which amounts to 'international law' according to the US and the international debt-based finance system .....the IMF is a US stooge, to replace Keynes' vision for a new post WW2 financial system.

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And rebounded. Roll Eyes

...after the damage was done. Timing is everything in the current unregulated financial market casino.

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And yet you have no proof of concept. It is not even a theory.

The new Macroeconomics text book by Mitchell, Wray and Watts has sold well, and will be influencing central bankers before long, when a new generation takes the reins.

Quote:

So you would prefer the filthy poisonous renewable jet fuel

I'm assuming renewables fuels, unlike filthy fossils, doesn't emit poisonous gases, only CO2.

Quote:

And yet you want to prolong this "brokeness"

How did you come to that conclusion (even given your conservative brain)?

A UNSC without veto will eradicate war between nations, and enable eradication of poverty in all nations (via MMT).

....and hence the phony hyperpartisan war over 'illegal immigrants' in the US (and to a lesser exent Oz)

Quote:

So whose money are they going to spend.

Didn't you know money is created 'ex nihilo', even in the present flawed economic orthodoxy? It's a matter of who determines whose pockets the out-of-nothing created money ends up in.

« Last Edit: Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:26pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #32 - Dec 6^th, 2021 at 4:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

No it's not, it's illegal; so violations of the UNUDHR will need to be addressed by the ICJ.

And they haven't. The Useless UN

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

Well whadaya know, the evil US stooge (ie, Instant Misery Fund) is funding filthy fossils, I'm not surprised, actually.

You mean the US controls the UN? But now they won't fund fossil fuels. The US again? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

The IMF is now a part of the Security Council? Grin

"Ask Venezuela’s Hugo Chávez about the IMF and you are likely to get a harangue on the wicked tools of the imperialistic United States: he suspects that monetary institution behind the failed coup that attempted to oust him a couple of years ago. To show the way things should be done, Chávez has lately turned himself into a sort of “tropical IMF”, dispensing his wads of petrodollars to those countries he considers really worthy. He wants to do things his way. All those multilateral institutions are not for him.

And then he turns around and goes out of his way to get elected to one of the non-permanent seats in the UN Security Council. Do we detect a contradiction there?

Not really. It might rather be that he read the latest CESifo Working Paper by Alex Dreher and Jan-Egbert Sturm (both at ETH Zurich), and James Raymond Vreeland (Yale University): they found a robust positive relationship between

temporary

Security Council membership and favourable treatment by the IMF."

https://www.ifo.de/cesifo/newsletter/imf1808.htm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

after the damage was done.

And Chavez was giving his petrodollar loans to countries he considered friendly. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

The new Macroeconomics text book by Mitchell, Wray and Watts has sold well, and will be influencing central bankers before long, when a new generation takes the reins.

And when the new generation goes broke because they also don't understand how economics actually works? Grin

As I said no proof of concept.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

I'm assuming renewables fuels, unlike filthy fossils, doesn't emit poisonous gases, only CO2.

They are going to be a hydrocarbon, same as now. They are going to give off particulates, the same as now. Which gases that fossil fuels give off are poisonous when efficiently burned? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

A UNSC without veto will eradicate war between nations, and enable eradication of poverty in all nations (via MMT).

Ah. Utopia. Grin

Just too far left to be sensible. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #33 - Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm

lee wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 4:39pm:

And they haven't. The Useless UN

My point all along... a UN destroyed by YOUR blind 'individual natural rights' delusion. Note: such "individual rights" don't exist in nature.

Quote:

You mean the US controls the UN?

Indeed that's the effect of a single hegemonic global power, who can bully every other nation on the planet.

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The IMF is now a part of the Security Council?

.

No, it's a US stooge (your comprehension problems again...)

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And then he turns around and goes out of his way to get elected to one of the non-permanent seats in the UN Security Council. Do we detect a contradiction there?

Non-permanent seats shouldn't exist; the UNGA is the debating forum for all nations, to be considered by the (reformed) UNSC.
Quote:

It might rather be that he read the latest CESifo Working Paper by Alex Dreher and Jan-Egbert Sturm (both at ETH Zurich), and James Raymond Vreeland (Yale University): they found a robust positive relationship between

temporary

Security Council membership and favourable treatment by the IMF."

So... non-permanent members of a phony Security Council (which is anything but) can no doubt influence the IMF, despite it being a US stooge.

Quote:

https://www.ifo.de/cesifo/newsletter/imf1808.htm

"... it would be surprising if the IMF’s major stakeholders —the US, Japan, Germany, France and the UK— did not utilize the IMF to promote their strategic interests"......well... self-interest drives everything, including bad governance.

"Corruption or Realpolitik? That’s a matter of interpretation. What is amply evident is that IMF programme participation and design are not nearly as aseptic (my note:meaning free from contamination) as idealists would like to believe, and those who accuse the IMF of catering to special interests cannot be dismissed offhand".

Exactly. (though I'm confused by the use of the word "idealists" there...oh, the authors are pushing the Chavez/"special interests" line, who'd have thought.....

Quote:

And Chavez was giving his petrodollar loans to countries he considered friendly. Roll Eyes

..and committing a cardinal sin in MMT: do NOT borrow in a foreign currency.

Quote:

And when the new generation goes broke because they also don't understand how economics actually works?

The new generation of central bankers, that is....and btw central bankers NEVER go broke.....even when their policies are misguided, as at present.

Quote:

As I said no proof of concept.

I note you are unable to grasp the significance of the fact that money is created 'ex nihilo' (whether in private banks or the central bank).

Meanwhile, the current failing orthodoxy has 'no proof of concept' either, as perceived in a (previously cited) recent NYT article entitled "no-one really knows how the economy works." Time to step aside for MMT...which can create and destroy money as appropriate, to properly deal with events like the GFC - as they arise.

Quote:

They are going to be a hydrocarbon, same as now. They are going to give off particulates, the same as now.

I spent some time trying to find out more about poisonous emissions from bio fuels, but couldn't find any useful info. (The big issue - in the articles I found - is CO2 emissions, as always).

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Which gases that fossil fuels give off are poisonous when efficiently burned?

There's the rub: "when efficiently burned".... impossible in diesels more than a few years old, with failing catalytic converters. Hence the upcoming ban on ICEs in built up areas.

Quote:

Ah. Utopia. Just too far left to be sensible. Roll Eyes

Ah..the conservative mind, not long ago they thought the economy would collapse if slavery was outlawed. Sensible?

« Last Edit: Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:12pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #34 - Dec 6^th, 2021 at 7:15pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

a UN destroyed by YOUR blind 'individual natural rights' delusion.

Destroyed by themselves. Nothing to do with my natural rights.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

Indeed that's the effect of a single hegemonic global power, who can bully every other nation on the planet.

Such a numpty. They are outvoted by most everyone. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

No, it's a US stooge (your comprehension problems again...)

So why aren't they continuing funding fossil fuels? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

Non-permanent seats shouldn't exist; the UNGA is the debating forum for all nations, to be considered by the (reformed) UNSC.

so now you want a consensus of 193 odd countries? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

So... non-permanent members of a phony Security Council (which is anything but) can no doubt influence the IMF, despite it being a US stooge.

Just too funny. The US controls the IMF and gets outvoted. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

..and committing a cardinal sin in MMT: do NOT borrow in a foreign currency.

Wow. talk about comprehension issues. They LOANED money not borrowed it. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

The new generation of central bankers, that is....and btw central bankers NEVER go broke.....even when their policies are misguided, as at present.

And that will change. Because you way they don't need to repay. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

I spent some time trying to find out more about poisonous emissions from bio fuels, but couldn't find any useful info. (The big issue - in the articles I found - is CO2 emissions, as always).

And didn't find anything poisonous as well. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

There's the rub: "when efficiently burned".... impossible in diesels more than a few years old, with failing catalytic converters. Hence the upcoming ban on ICEs in built up areas.

So jet fuel is emission free? Oh an upcoming ban? Rhat means that it has no effect currently. And any future legislation can be canned at the stroke of a pen. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

Ah..the conservative mind, not long ago they thought the economy would collapse if slavery was outlawed.

And yet slavery continues. But we made machines. machines to run on stable electrical supplies. And that with your options will be a no manufacturing..

« Last Edit: Dec 6^th, 2021 at 7:23pm by lee »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #35 - Dec 7^th, 2021 at 10:57am

lee wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 7:15pm:

Destroyed by themselves. Nothing to do with my natural rights.

This IS the key point. The UN was rendered incapable of carrying out its mission - ie, establish an international rules based system to avoid another catastrophic world war, or wars in general - at the very beginning of the adoption of its Charter in 1946.

Reason?

Because delegates from the major powers (US and USSR) refused to relinquish their national sovereignty.

Why? Take the US case first:

1. The US constitution is based on the delusion of individual inalienable/natural rights, delusional because no such rights exist in nature, they are human inventions. The upshot of this classical liberal delusion is the US demanded absolute national sovereignty.

2. The USSR insisted on one vote for each of the nations in the Soviet bloc, rejected by the US, because the voting power of the USSR (in the proposed UNSC) would have been overwhelming.

Hence the imposition of the veto right, to be exercised by any one of the 5 permanent members whenever any one of of them felt so inclined to exercise its veto right.

Quote:

Such a numpty. They are outvoted by most everyone.

Note: given my clear and irrefutable explanation of the veto power, and the reasons for its enforced adoption by the UNSC, I will proceed to easily demolish each of your arguments which are based on the delusion of individual natural/inalienable rights.

Er...the US has a veto....and the biggest stick......so even if eg, the vote is 100 to 1, nevertheless when the 1 has a veto AND the biggest stick....being "outvoted" is of no consequence for the US.

See how easy that was?

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So why aren't they continuing funding fossil fuels?

because it's not part of their remit.

See how easy that was was?

Quote:

so now you want a consensus of 193 odd countries?

No, I want all c. 193 nations to submit to an international rules based system. to establish a well-ordered global community.

See how easy that was?

Quote:

Just too funny. The US controls the IMF and gets outvoted.

Addressed above. The IMF is a US stooge, and the US doesn't give two hoots about being outvoted, whether in the UN or the IMF.

See how easy that was?

Quote:

Wow. talk about comprehension issues. They LOANED money not borrowed it.

So you say, based on these false assertions:

1. " Chávez has lately turned himself into a sort of “tropical IMF”, dispensing his wads of petrodollars to those countries he considers really worthy"

and

2. "And Chavez was giving his petrodollar loans to countries he considered friendly".

Both 1 and 2 are absurd propositions; Chavez needed to fund 'expensive' anti-poverty socialist policies at home, he was in no position to fund "friends" overseas.

(To be continued)

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #36 - Dec 7^th, 2021 at 11:30am

lee wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 7:15pm:

And that will change. Because you way they don't need to repay.

Sloppy representation of MMT. Central bankers can only manipulate interest rates at present.... whereas they should be issuing debt free money in accordance with the government's fiscal policies (while observing the resources/productive capacity constraint).

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And didn't find anything poisonous as well.

Your turn: show us the article which shows bio fuels emit poisonous gases, just as fossil fuels do.

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So jet fuel is emission free? Oh an upcoming ban? Rhat means that it has no effect currently. And any future legislation can be canned at the stroke of a pen.

Gosh...problems with logic now. The first point is addressed above (and yet to be shown by either of us, one way or the other). eg, "Emissions" - meaning CO2 or poisons?

Upcoming bans ARE real, diesels ARE filthy and emit poisons, deadly in heavy traffic in built-up areas.

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And yet slavery continues.

Owing to lack of effective international law, the result of your delusional natural rights ideology, as explained previously.

Don't deny it again; it will probably be the 3rd time if you do.

Or you can attempt to defend your delusional ideology....rather than merely asserting it has no consequence on the functioning of the UN.

Quote:

But we made machines. machines to run on stable electrical supplies. And that with your options will be a no manufacturing..

Nonsense, you are now merely asserting we cannot immediately begin the fastest possible transition to 100% renewables, with manufacturing based on continuous free electricity (from sun and wind, plus smart grid and longterm/short term storage). Let's get on with the job and see what the situation is when 80% renewables is achieved. Then we can decide whether the last 20% needs the addition of nuclear, or not.

« Last Edit: Dec 7^th, 2021 at 11:39am by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #37 - Dec 7^th, 2021 at 1:06pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 10:57am:

1. The US constitution is based on the delusion of individual inalienable/natural rights, delusional because no such rights exist in nature, they are human inventions. The upshot of this classical liberal delusion is the US demanded absolute national sovereignty.

And so if you follow that through slavery should not be illegal because the illegality is a human construct.. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 10:57am:

Er...the US has a veto....and the biggest stick......so even if eg, the vote is 100 to 1, nevertheless when the 1 has a veto AND the biggest stick....being "outvoted" is of no consequence for the US.

The biggest schtick you mean. The USSR has used the veto more. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 10:57am:

2. The USSR insisted on one vote for each of the nations in the Soviet bloc, rejected by the US, because the voting power of the USSR (in the proposed UNSC) would have been overwhelming.

see above.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 10:57am:

because it's not part of their remit.

Oh dear so the Us did and doesn't. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 10:57am:

No, I want all c. 193 nations to submit to an international rules based system. to establish a well-ordered global community.

See how easy that was?

Ah wishes now make it so. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 10:57am:

Addressed above. The IMF is a US stooge, and the US doesn't give two hoots about being outvoted, whether in the UN or the IMF.

And yet the IMF is really a leftist being.

"Perhaps also relevant, Georgieva has widened the remit of the IMF to include humanitarian concerns and issues such as climate change."

"Much of the public commentary, even by staid commentators such as former World Bank chief economist Anne Krueger, The Economist and Edward Luce at the Financial Times, is adamant – Georgieva has to go, or the reputation of both institutions will been trashed. Her defenders are the usual left-leaning commentators such as Jeffrey Sachs and Joseph Stiglitz, another former chief economist of the Bank."

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/rank-index-or-politicised-process-...

See how easy that was?

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 10:57am:

And yet you provide NOTHING to support your view.

See how easy that was?

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 11:30am:

And you have this naive belief in its unproven hypothesis. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 11:30am:

Your turn: show us the article which shows bio fuels emit poisonous gases, just as fossil fuels do.

You were the one talking about jet fuel and poisonous fossil fuels. You made the claim. Back it up. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 11:30am:

Gosh...problems with logic now. The first point is addressed above (and yet to be shown by either of us, one way or the other). eg, "Emissions" - meaning CO2 or poisons?

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 6^th, 2021 at 3:12pm:

I'm assuming renewables fuels, unlike filthy fossils, doesn't emit poisonous gases, only CO2.

That was easy wasn't it.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 11:30am:

Upcoming bans ARE real, diesels ARE filthy and emit poisons, deadly in heavy traffic in built-up areas.

Which DEADLY poisons? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 11:30am:

Oh dear. Do it - if it fails too bad. Grin

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Dnarever Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 58153 Here Gender:	Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies Reply #38 - Dec 7^th, 2021 at 1:35pm When these lists get past 3 or 4 comments I suspect that nobody bothers to read it. It is just more Blah Blah Blah. I did actually read the one above and it proved my point - Blah Blah Blah.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #39 - Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm

lee wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 1:06pm:

And so if you follow that through slavery should not be illegal because the illegality is a human construct.. Wink

You didn't "carry it through" far enough: rule of law (including international law) - which is a human construct - concerned with "justice" (also a human construct), has determined slavery is illegal. The question is: how to enforce the Law.

Quote:

The biggest schtick you mean. The USSR has used the veto more.

Irrelevant. The very existence of the veto is the problem which is inhibiting the establishment of an international rules based system.

And no I don't mean "the biggest schtick", that's just your diversionary tactic (since you can't debate the point); I mean the biggest stick.

Quote:

Oh dear so the Us did and doesn't

I already told you: Keynes' proposal for an IMF - which would actually have been capable of assisting prosperous development in all nations - was rejected by the greedy Americans who now found themselves (in 1946) to be 'masters of the universe'.

So they created their own version of the IMF...a US stooge of course, enforcing debt issuance and repayment on terms favourable to the US.

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And yet the IMF is really a leftist being.

Disproved above, Keynes' IMF would have been a "leftist being", to assist prosperous development among all nations.

[Note how the West today has suddenly become interested in international development, after China's BRI initiative]

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"Perhaps also relevant, Georgieva has widened the remit of the IMF to include humanitarian concerns and issues such as climate change."

...indeed, a full 70 years after the founding of the US IMF; what has it been doing for 70 years?

Quote:

"Much of the public commentary, even by staid commentators such as former World Bank chief economist Anne Krueger, The Economist and Edward Luce at the Financial Times, is adamant – Georgieva has to go, or the reputation of both institutions will been trashed. Her defenders are the usual left-leaning commentators such as Jeffrey Sachs and Joseph Stiglitz, another former chief economist of the Bank."

Thanks for proving my point. The mainstream evil neoliberal economists want to return the IMF to its status as a US beneficiary, in opposition to "left leaning" economists.

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And yet you provide NOTHING to support your view.

Facts are not opinions/views. Chavez was successfully funding his socialist policies until the price of oil collapsed.

Quote:

And you have this naive belief in its unproven hypothesis.

Yes. MMT economists correctly predicted the GFC, while mainstream flat-earthers were taken by surprise; and also explained why Japan was able to maintain near full employment with low inflation and low interest rates, despite having the largest national debt to GDP ratio in the world, after its property bubble burst.

Quote:

You were the one talking about jet fuel and poisonous fossil fuels. You made the claim. Back it up. Roll Eyes

No, you are confused again. Everybody knows fossil fuels emit poisonous gases, whether burned in jet engines or in any other manner. The question I was seeking an answer to was whether burning bio fuels in jet engines also emits poisonous gases.

Quote:

Which DEADLY poisons?

https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/diesel_exhaust.html

Short term exposure to diesel exhaust can cause coughing, and irritation of the eyes, nose, throat, and respiratory tract. Breathing in diesel exhaust can cause lung irritation and/or an allergic reaction causing asthma (wheezing and difficult breathing), or making pre-existing asthma worse.

Very high levels can lead to asphyxiation from carbon monoxide poisoning.

Long term exposure may lead to serious health effects. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), which is part of the World Health Organization (WHO), classified diesel engine exhaust as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1), determining that exposure to diesel exhaust emissions increases the risk for lung cancer and possibly bladder cancer.

Quote:

Oh dear. Do it - if it fails too bad

Your problems with logic are showing again....80% or whatever, IF it does indeed prove difficult to proceed beyond that level (ie fueled only by sun and wind+storage) - but most likely isn't - is NOT 'failure'; we will be 80% of the way there, a huge improvement over 100% filthy fossils.

« Last Edit: Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:39pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #40 - Dec 8^th, 2021 at 3:20pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

The question is: how to enforce the Law.

A consensus of 193 countries. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

And no I don't mean "the biggest schtick", that's just your diversionary tactic (since you can't debate the point); I mean the biggest stick.

And yet you can't point to this "biggest stick". Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

So they created their own version of the IMF...a US stooge of course, enforcing debt issuance and repayment on terms favourable to the US.

So what is the name of this US version of the IMF? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

Disproved above, Keynes' IMF would have been a "leftist being", to assist prosperous development among all nations.

You have disproved nothing. Assertions without proof remain merely assertion. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

.indeed, a full 70 years after the founding of the US IMF; what has it been doing for 70 years?

So it is not a stooge version by the US. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

Thanks for proving my point. The mainstream evil neoliberal economists want to return the IMF to its status as a US beneficiary, in opposition to "left leaning" economists.

No you said they already were. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

Chavez was successfully funding his socialist policies until the price of oil collapsed.

He was also lending money which is what you disagreed with. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

MMT economists correctly predicted the GFC, while mainstream flat-earthers were taken by surprise; and also explained why Japan was able to maintain near full employment with low inflation and low interest rates, despite having the largest national debt to GDP ratio in the world, after its property bubble burst.

Another assertion without proof offered. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

Everybody knows fossil fuels emit poisonous gases, whether burned in jet engines or in any other manner.

Ah you "just know"? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/diesel_exhaust.html

Oh dear.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

Very high levels can lead to asphyxiation from carbon monoxide poisoning.

Can; not do.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

Long term exposure may lead to serious health effects.

May; not does. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 2:20pm:

And what if it has difficulty actually ACHIEVING that level, which is far more likely? Roll Eyes

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #41 - Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm

lee wrote on Dec 8^th, 2021 at 3:20pm:

A consensus of 193 countries

China's consensus one-party meritocracy was established by defeating the proponents of two-party adversarial politics, on the battle field IN CHINA.

That is the internal affair of China.

But relations between 193 separate nations relates to external affairs, requiring adjudication by - an international rules based system, to avoid war in the age of MAD.

Quote:

And yet you can't point to this "biggest stick"

I thought you would understand the meaning ie, the Pentagon, spending more the the rest of the world combined and 3 times China's defense spending.

Quote:

So what is the name of this US version of the IMF?

The IMF. (I can play that game, too....)

Quote:

You have disproved nothing. Assertions without proof remain merely assertion.

Ah... your fall back position; yet Keynes 'clearing union' would have been 'leftist' (ie promoting the common welfare), that's just a fact.

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So it is not a stooge version by the US

IQ? The present leader - Georgieva - is being threatened because she wants to move IMF policy to the left, ie to be less of less of a self-serving US stooge.

Quote:

He was also lending money which is what you disagreed with

Yes I disagreed with him lending money....he couldn't afford it, especially with his one trick economy relying on the price of oil

Quote:

Another assertion without proof offered.

Again, just fact:

Steve Keen, head of the School of Economics, History and Politics, Kingston University
Keen, an Australian, is widely regarded as one of the first economists to make the call on an impending financial crisis and later won the inaugural Revere Award for Economics for his foresight.

In December 2005, when markets seemed buoyant, Keen set up the website debtdeflation.com as a platform to discuss the “global debt bubble”. Then teaching at the University of Western Sydney, he attracted considerable attention, much of it negative, for his views that an exponential rise in private debt in Australia, and in the US, was unsustainable and would lead to a collapse in asset prices.

“This is how bubbles grow and burst and ignoring debt in this way is one of the great fallacies of modern economics.”

Here is Steve on MMT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTTKvM62HQ0

Quote:

Oh dear.

yes ..and well should you say, in the face of the poisonous filth coming from burning fossils

Quote:

Can; not do.

You still smoking cigs? Happy to lock yourself in a shed with a running ICE?

Quote:

May; not does.

..like smoking, which is heavily sanctioned for a reason, see above.

Quote:

And what if it has difficulty actually ACHIEVING that level, which is far more likely?

So what level of renewables do YOU think can be achieved ASAP with current technology?

And then work out what can be done, when that level is reached. An empirical approach, rather than just asserting it can'rt nbe done.

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #42 - Dec 9^th, 2021 at 7:13pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

China's consensus one-party meritocracy was established by defeating the proponents of two-party adversarial politics, on the battle field IN CHINA.

Ah yes where merit is gender based. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

I thought you would understand the meaning ie, the Pentagon, spending more the the rest of the world combined and 3 times China's defense spending.

You know how much China spends on defence? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

The IMF. (I can play that game, too....)

So there is no US version of the IMF despite your claim. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

IQ? The present leader - Georgieva - is being threatened because she wants to move IMF policy to the left, ie to be less of less of a self-serving US stooge.

Poor petal she has already moved it to the left. Except where climate change is concerned when she doesn't want Africa to have reliable fossil fuel energy. That's the Green Revolution for you. Just another neocolonial stance. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

Yes I disagreed with him lending money....he couldn't afford it, especially with his one trick economy relying on the price of oil

But you initially said he borrowed it. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

Steve Keen, head of the School of Economics, History and Politics, Kingston University
Keen, an Australian, is widely regarded as one of the first economists to make the call on an impending financial crisis and later won the inaugural Revere Award for Economics for his foresight.

So how did he describe this GFC? That Australian house prices would fall by 40%. Grin

That Australian debt to GDP would be 160%. Grin

That Australia would be in recession long before debt to GDP ratio fell. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

yes ..and well should you say, in the face of the poisonous filth coming from burning fossils

And yet you can't provide anything but can, could and may. Why is that?

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

You still smoking cigs? Happy to lock yourself in a shed with a running ICE?

Wow are you that brain dead that you think running an engine without adequate ventilation is good. Even electric motors - read up on ozone. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

.like smoking, which is heavily sanctioned for a reason, see above.

Already addressed. That was easy wasn't it. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

So what level of renewables do YOU think can be achieved ASAP with current technology?

Now you are changing the story line. It is not what can be achieved but the extent to which it will provide stable supply. Wink

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #43 - Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm

lee wrote on Dec 9^th, 2021 at 7:13pm:

Ah yes where merit is gender based

Irrelevent... pass.

Quote:

You know how much China spends on defence?

yes... (haven't you got google...)

Quote:

So there is no US version of the IMF despite your claim.

The US designed the IMF, to benefit the US.

Quote:

Never fear. If climate change is real, the mob at future COPs will be forced to fund Africa's transition.

Quote:

But you initially said he borrowed it.

No I said he should never borrow in US dollars; you claimed he lent petro dollars ie US dollars.

Quote:

So how did he describe this GFC? That Australian house prices would fall by 40%.

He predicted the GFC, when main-streamers had no idea.

Now as the detail of the OZ housing market, he was wrong.

Quote:

That Australian debt to GDP would be 160%.

" Australia household debt accounted for 129.2 % of the country's Nominal GDP in Dec 2020"

add on the public debt 40%.

Quote:

That Australia would be in recession long before debt to GDP ratio fell

Oz had experienced per capita GDP declines before Covid.

Meanwhile the UK treasurer is bemoaning the the fact that governments "are being forced to experiment with MMT" as a result of the huge run up in covid debt (Guardian article today)

Of course he lists 7 reasons why MMT is flawed, and bleats about inflation, but he doesn't say HOW governments could have dealt with a situation with half the nation's work-force locked up at home.....

Quote:

And yet you can't provide anything but can, could and may. Why is that?

I know you won't shut yourself in your garage with the fossil engine running....

Quote:

Wow are you that brain dead that you think running an engine without adequate ventilation is good. Even electric motors - read up on ozone.

Yeh, without adequate ventilation.... why is that?

As for EVs: "Simple answer: Electric cars use brushless motors, generally either asynchronous induction motors or synchronous permanent magnet motors. They don’t create any ozone at all".

Quote:

Already addressed.

You still don't understand high density traffic and poeple at busy intersections. Governments do, and that's why Diesel's days are numbered.

Quote:

Now you are changing the story line. It is not what can be achieved but the extent to which it will provide stable supply.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/squared/dispatches-from-the-grid-edge/solving-the-renewable-powered-grids-inertia-problem-with-advanced-inverters

"At the theoretical endpoint of this transition, inverter-based generators can shift from “grid-following” systems that match their operations to frequencies created by spinning generators to “grid-forming” systems that actively create the frequency of the networks they’re serving.

That’s how global grid giant Hitachi ABB Power Grids approached the challenge it faced at the Dalrymple ESCRI (Energy Storage for Commercial Renewable Integration) project in South Australia. The 30-megawatt/8-megawatt-hour battery system sits at a substation serving several towns on a peninsula that also hosts about 90 megawatts of wind farms, with only a single connection to the mainland. The battery allows transmission grid operator ElectraNet to provide grid stability and prevent outages in case of lightning strikes or other disruptions to the line.

Further down, mention of a "virtual synchronous machine"... highly technical but the solutions for grid stability with 100% renewables are well on the way. Meantime, let's get Snowy 2.0 up and running, and roll out as much solar and wind as possible.

Google article: "South Australia takes another big leap towards 100 per cent wind and solar"

"The rapid transition of the South Australia grid towards a world-first target of net 100 per cent wind and solar has taken another stunning leap forward, with the amount of gas generation slashed by half, allowing wind energy to set a new record of its own.

"South Australia regularly reaches levels of more than 100 per cent wind and solar – in fact it has done that for all but three days since the start of October

(written 18th november) Some days the electricity is free with the excess sent to Victoria via the interconnector.

Same result for all of Nov. (I can't find the latest updated article which I read yesterday).

Exciting times we live in!

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Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #44 - Dec 10^th, 2021 at 6:19pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

Irrelevent... pass.

Nope it is either a meritocracy or it is not. It can't be based on gender. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

yes... (haven't you got google...)

So what is it. Is it in Yuan or someone's guesstimate?

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

The US designed the IMF, to benefit the US.

uhuh.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

Never fear. If climate change is real, the mob at future COPs will be forced to fund Africa's transition.

What transition is that? From no reliable energy to what? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

No I said he should never borrow in US dollars; you claimed he lent petro dollars ie US dollars.

he lent in whatever currency he wanted. I wasn't using it as a US denominated position. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

He predicted the GFC, when main-streamers had no idea.

He predicted a recession. The basis of his prediction was1. that house prices were too high in Australia and would fall to 40%.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

" Australia household debt accounted for 129.2 % of the country's Nominal GDP in Dec 2020"

add on the public debt 40%.

He said the debt ratio would be 160% by 2007 in 2006. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

Oz had experienced per capita GDP declines before Covid.

Another of his pre-GFC predictions - 2006 Grin

In 2008 he said Australia would have up to 20% unemployment. Also Australia would have a severe recession possibly depression. He also claimed the Australian property bubble started at various times - 1964, 1983 and 1988.

So at least those of his pre-GFC predictions for Australia were wrong. But hey he claimed to predicted the GFC and all on the wrong conclusions. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

I know you won't shut yourself in your garage with the fossil engine running.

because I am not you. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

As for EVs: "Simple answer: Electric cars use brushless motors, generally either asynchronous induction motors or synchronous permanent magnet motors. They don’t create any ozone at all".

You really are a know nothing.

"Any electric circuit with more than about 2.5 volts applied, can make some ozone. The the electric motor is sealed, it usually does not make much ozone."

https://www.quora.com/Do-electric-vehicles-create-ozone?share=1

"Two of the largest emitters of these pollutants are vehicles and electricity generating units (EGUs) but as Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs) have risen in popularity over the past decade the positive impact on the environment due to lack of fossil fuel exhaust fumes is offset by increased ozone."

https://www.science20.com/news_articles/solving_ozone_problem_caused_electric_ca...

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

You still don't understand high density traffic and poeple at busy intersections. Governments do, and that's why Diesel's days are numbered.

I understand it it quite well. You however seem not to. Every breeze dispels emissions, you just can't do it in a clean room. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

"At the theoretical endpoint of this transition, inverter-based generators can shift from “grid-following” systems that match their operations to frequencies created by spinning generators to “grid-forming” systems that actively create the frequency of the networks they’re serving.

Oh theoretical. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

The battery allows transmission grid operator ElectraNet to provide grid stability and prevent outages in case of lightning strikes or other disruptions to the line.

oh the battery does all that. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

Further down, mention of a "virtual synchronous machine"... highly technical but the solutions for grid stability with 100% renewables are well on the way.

Oh only "well on the way". Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

"South Australia regularly reaches levels of more than 100 per cent wind and solar – in fact it has done that for all but three days since the start of October

Yea. On average.

Linked article -

" 12.20pm grid time (AEST, or 1250 local time in Adelaide) the combination of rooftop solar (1275MW, or 80.9 per cent of local demand) and large scale solar (331MW, or 21 per cent) delivered a combined 101.9 per cent of local state demand for a 5-minute period."

https://reneweconomy.com.au/solar-meets-more-than-100-per-cent-of-local-demand-i...

original article -

"But often the amount of wind and solar that is generated has to be constrained to ensure that a certain amount of gas generation can supply “system strength” and keep the grid stable."

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