Australian Politics Forum - ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58622 Here Gender:	Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜ Reply #150 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:43pm Why the strawman about muskets when nobody is saying that ? You cannot beat any sensible argument so you just make up your own ?
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Panther

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Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜
Reply #151 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

https://www.liveabout.com/thmb/3dOHxiYOmHoUvFfxi0yBEt_MwiE=/650x0/filters:no_ups...

Roll Eyes

It's OUR LAW, & OUR RIGHT....not yours.....& as American Citizens we do & will live according to OUR AMERICAN LAW.....the Constitution of the United States of America, the Supreme Law of OUR Land, by which all American laws must conform. We Americans wouldn't have it any other way, we've lived by those laws for over 230+ years, & will for 200+ years yet to come. No power on earth, except our own, will be the deciders of that.....
Only the American People can Amend OUR AMERICAN CONSTITUTION....

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« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:53pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Live FREE or DIE!
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41913	Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜ Reply #152 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:51pm
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Panther

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Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜
Reply #153 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:06pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2456/zwjmRE.jpg

Roll Eyes

Then you Bwian, you personally convince an American Citizen that they he/she should petition an amendment to the American Constitution precisely stating that, & stating exactly what should & should not be, & then have it voted upon in Congress.....If approved by Congress as stipulated in law, it must then be presented to the American People for their final concurrence as stipulated by law.

If the American People in the requisite number of States agree with the new amendment as stipulated by law, then it will be reported & become law......

Until that moment the following Right stands firm:

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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Dnarever

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Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜
Reply #154 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:09pm

Panther wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2456/zwjmRE.jpg

Roll Eyes

Then you Bwian, you personally convince an American Citizen that they he/she should petition an amendment to the American Constitution precisely stating that, & stating exactly what should & should not be, & then have it voted upon in Congress.....If approved by Congress as stipulated in law, it must then be presented to the American People for their final concurrence as stipulated by law.

If the American People in the requisite number of States agree with the new amendment as stipulated by law, then it will be reported & become law......

Until that moment the following Right stands firm:

https://imgur.com/ay4GYqv.gif

Option "b" would be to just have the supreme court re define the amendment as happened in 2008.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41913	Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜ Reply #155 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:24pm
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Panther

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Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜
Reply #156 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:29pm

Dnarever wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:09pm:

Panther wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2456/zwjmRE.jpg

Roll Eyes

Then you Bwian, you personally convince an American Citizen that they he/she should petition an amendment to the American Constitution precisely stating that, & stating exactly what should & should not be, & then have it voted upon in Congress.....If approved by Congress as stipulated in law, it must then be presented to the American People for their final concurrence as stipulated by law.

If the American People in the requisite number of States agree with the new amendment as stipulated by law, then it will be reported & become law......

Until that moment the following Right stands firm:

https://imgur.com/ay4GYqv.gif

Option "b" would be to just have the supreme court re define the amendment as happened in 2008.

That precedent won't realistically be reviewed &/or overruled/overturned within the near future, because unlike a fickle mob of Blue State politicians, the United States Supreme Court relies on the Original Historical Documents/Records contained in the largest library in the World, the Library of Congress, & past case Precedent including, but not limited to, the Heller & subsequent decisions, which all prove that the 2008 decision regarding the Second Amendment was come to correctly, & I trust that more precedent will be forthcoming in the next 2-3 months because of decisions still pending on already heard 2nd Amendment cases still before the Court pending their decision(s).

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« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:43pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41913	Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜ Reply #157 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:41pm
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Panther

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Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜
Reply #158 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:41pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6205/nOc8Nc.jpg

Roll Eyes

Cute, but inconsequential, cartoon........the only Right of the American People is stated in the Second Amendment.....

There are two clauses that comprise the Second Amendment, an OPERATIVE CLAUSE, and a PREFATORY CLAUSE.

Operative Clause: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The operative clause is the actual protected right; kind of the 'meat and potatoes.'

The Supreme Court wrote:

"1. Operative Clause. a. 'Right of the People.' [used 3 times in Bill of Rights] ... All three of these instances unambiguously refer to individual rights, not 'collective' rights, or rights that may be exercised only through participation in some corporate body." .

Prefatory Clause: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State."

The Prefatory Clause is the lead-in that "announces a purpose" for the Operative Clause.

The Supreme Court stated:

"The Amendment's prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause's text and history demonstrate that it connotes an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to Keep and Bear Arms".

The Supreme Court also stated:

"The Amendment could be rephrased, 'BECAUSE a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.' "

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« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2022 at 6:05pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25006 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜ Reply #159 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 7:29pm It is my right as an Australian to be able to say that foreign laws and their constitution are stupid. Just as a foreigner has the right to criticise my country's laws. We just have to abide by each other countries' laws when we get inside the respective jurisdiction.
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Panther

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Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜
Reply #160 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 7:48pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 7:29pm:

It is my right as an Australian to be able to say that foreign laws and their constitution are stupid. Just as a foreigner has the right to criticise my country's laws. We just have to abide by each other countries' laws when we get inside the respective jurisdiction.

In the USA The Freedom of Speech is virtually absolute......& if he/she wishes to exercise their Freedom of Choice, & they chose to do something contrary to the the letter of any law, they must be willing to pay the price if caught......Until then no one is the wiser.

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 137785 Gender:	Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜ Reply #161 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 7:51pm
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74644 Gender:	Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜ Reply #162 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 7:59pm the answer to all the gun violence in the USA is easy MORE GUNS
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Dnarever

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Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜
Reply #163 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 8:07pm

Panther wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:09pm:

Panther wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2456/zwjmRE.jpg

Roll Eyes

Then you Bwian, you personally convince an American Citizen that they he/she should petition an amendment to the American Constitution precisely stating that, & stating exactly what should & should not be, & then have it voted upon in Congress.....If approved by Congress as stipulated in law, it must then be presented to the American People for their final concurrence as stipulated by law.

If the American People in the requisite number of States agree with the new amendment as stipulated by law, then it will be reported & become law......

Until that moment the following Right stands firm:

https://imgur.com/ay4GYqv.gif

Option "b" would be to just have the supreme court re define the amendment as happened in 2008.

That precedent won't realistically be reviewed &/or overruled/overturned within the near future, because unlike a fickle mob of Blue State politicians, the United States Supreme Court relies on the Original Historical Documents/Records contained in the largest library in the World, the Library of Congress, & past case Precedent including, but not limited to, the Heller & subsequent decisions, which all prove that the 2008 decision regarding the Second Amendment was come to correctly, & I trust that more precedent will be forthcoming in the next 2-3 months because of decisions still pending on already heard 2nd Amendment cases still before the Court pending their decision(s).

https://i.vgy.me/VMrngo.png

It was just a coincidence that the decision happened to line up with what the NRA and republicans wanted and it was convenient that it dismissed the first statement of the second amendment which had a valid literal meaning when the amendment was created but now as a prefatory clause dismisses that meaning as not existing. Yes in the 1790's a Militia was a real thing that did require to be armed for national security purposes. This is not the case in 2008 so it was removed by the supreme court which effective changed the meaning of the second.

There is also the dissenting view that to bear arms is a term referencing military usage and not private use.

Yes the US supreme court has become a political tool that in large does the bidding of the people and systems who put the judges in place.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 46471 Gender:	Re: ⮞⮞⮞ Americans Love Guns & Freedom ⮜⮜⮜ Reply #164 - Apr 26^th, 2022 at 8:25pm greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 26^th, 2022 at 7:51pm: https://www.liveabout.com/thmb/FvOj40dxp3I5b1JsMwM7lajr_5Y=/540x497/filters:no_u... Thank you Bbwian - kyynt.
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