thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 30^th, 2022 at 6:10pm:


So, food should also be free?

What else should be free? Housing?

All from the government printing money I presume?

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 10:35am:


I already said the basics ... which are good food, clean housing,  clothing, utilities (inc. public transport), education, and last but not least, guaranteed participation in the economy,  according to ability. 

Now, if you want  extra fancy private housing (or whatever), you will have to earn enough money to pay for it...  

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Yes, because there are vastly  more resources than required to implement  these basics for everyone.


But note (and this is probably what is confusing you) : everyone is still required to work, contribute and earn a wage ie, "there is indeed "no free lunch"   for individuals....who have to earn money and repay their debts, unlike the sovereign currency-issuing government which can always purchase whatever is for sale in the nation's currency regardless of government 'debt' (which is a  misnomer). 

The
Independent Commission for All Corruption.

Is probably the worst example of how to make the system honest.
In none, not one of their rulings have any miscreants been held accountable to the level they should be.

On the central coast, the gave the criminal council a "no issue to answer" free ride.

A council that lost/stole/misplaced $600,000,000.00 in a couple of years.
No referral to further investigation
No forensic financial investigation
No recomendation for criminal charges.

Obviously, some of the $600,000,000.00 was used to bribe the ICAC.

Even the appointed administrator was a mate of one of the councellors.
He has been living in the most exclusive and most expensive accomodation available on the coast for the last 3 years.

And still the crooks keep being crooks, upping rates by several times more than allowed and us now being more expensive than any council in NSW, possibly all Australia.

But the good old ICAC have no case to answer.
I just hope the bribes were good.
Because they will be going to hell for them.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 3:00pm:


So what sort of standard is the free housing going to be?

Have you ever met an actual economist who claims all these things can be funded by the government printing money without causing inflation?

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What does that mean? And what happens if they do not work hard enough?

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 4:39pm:


If an elected Parliament cannot monitor and expose corruption then an unelected body monitoring an elected body won't either.

An elected parliamentarian has better access and privileges than an unelected commission that, in fact, cannot make any rulings, only recommendations to... er... an elected parliament.

The trophies of the NSW ICAC are puny - premier resigning for not remembering a bottle of wine given to him.


Also:

In 1992 Greiner was forced to resign when ICAC, the very body he had pioneered, expressed concerns about his integrity over the offer of an appointment to a former education minister to a new post in the public service. Though subsequently cleared by the NSW Court of Appeal it was the end of Greiner's political career.



Did ANY ICAC commissioner resign or lose his job over being wrong?  NO.

Frank wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 7:43pm:


How does your conclusion follow from your premise?

Of course there are always some bad apples in any basket, but an unelected outside observer, chosen on the basis of ability,  can obviously examine the bad players without fear or favour because (if) he has no skin in the players' game. 

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Which elected polie or polies have  better access (than an unelected commission)  to what, exactly? (I see the 'fallacy of composition' emerging here, see my concluding reamarks).

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Unelected commissions can expose illegality. It will be interesting to see the results of the Queensland premier's intervention into the apparent failure of the state's ICAC. 

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I agree.  Interestingly, if politicians of the governing party didn't have to beg for money from the electorate (see MMT),  there would be far less corruption in government, because polies would be able to present clearly costed - AND FUNDED -  policies   to the electorate; unlike Albo who even now, before a looming election, cannot say how much he will increase the wages of age-care workers...... 

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I agree. Another case of politicians being blamed for the political  realities of life under our current evil economic system which reserves money creation rights to private bankers. (...which is why this discussion of ICAC arose, when Valkie suggested MMT is unworkable).

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I'm not conversant with the details, but:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-31/qld-pccc-corruption-tony-fitzgerald-revie...

" Tony Fitzgerald to chair review of Queensland's Crime and Corruption Commission, Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk says"

"CCC (the equivalent of IPAC in Qld) chair Alan MacSporran did not ensure the watchdog acted independently and impartially at all times, a report found.

Mr MacSporran resigned last week, saying his relationship with the PCCC had broken down irretrievably"

Hmmm...the elected PCCC examining the unelected CCC  (which is authorized  to examine public officials). 

So.... different to your scenario, because both bodies are reviewing each other. The truth will be revealed, unless ALL politicians - and all judges - are corrupt, which is an absurd proposition.

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 10:37am:


Can you quote him?

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So if you say I am lazy, disinterested and incapable of doing anything other than menial tasks at a snail's pace and to a very low standard, what happens then?

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No, I mean what happens if you do not work hard enough? Are you having difficulty understanding the question?

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Can you give an example? I'll give you an easy task: a council worker assigned to pick up rubbish.

And if a person is too lazy and unmotivated to complete set task in the time allotted and to the standard required?