freediver wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2022 at 6:45pm:


A fundamental principle of socialism is "from each according to ability" and  confirmed in other words in the UN UDHR Article 23, 1.  (without mentioning 'socialism'):

"Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment".

Obviously, according to the individual's ability.

Now, "to each according to need" is almost a motherhood statement: we all have basic needs which a functional economy must supply. After those needs have been met (eg via a living wage JG) , individuals are free to compete for the luxuries which an economy might supply over and above the necessities.

So I haven't discarded anything.

Quote:


Everyone has the right and responsibility to above poverty work. The state also has the right and the responsibility to implement an economy in which these rights and responsibilities of individuals are implemented. 

That's a modern view of 'socialism' in a modern fiat-currency economy, wherein both individual success AND collective well being are manifested.   

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 9:32am:


It's not a difficult question. Yet you're appear to be struggling with it.

Teachers are feeling the effort of having to go back to work.

The latest, they will be closing shop a 1300 hours
Start about the time most normal workers start 0800 and finishing at 1300
5 whole hours, minus of course, 1 hour for lunch, 1/2 hour each for morning tea and afternoon tea, oh yeah, and one day a week is sports, so nothong then.
So our kids can expect a whole 12 hours of face to face teaching a week.

But it gets better
They only do it for 39 weeks a year, not excluding pupil free days and other days such as excursions and such, take off another 3 weeks, making 36 weeks a year of actual teaching.


So, in total we can expect our kids to get around 450 hours of face to face teaching a year.
Considering actual workers do over 2000 hours of work, perhaps our teachers are seriously overpaid for the 450 hours they do.

Valkie wrote on Feb 8^th, 2022 at 11:26am:


No, teachers and age care workers, unlike bank CEOs,  are seriously underpaid. Teachers in particular work as long as  anyone else, given the after hours students' assignments preparation and marking required.

Frank wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2022 at 8:55am:


You and freediver are basing your argument on false premises.


1. The basic welfare (in a JG economy)  is not "going to be lower to begin with"; there will be no "basic welfare", but rather assistance with housing, food, and utilities for those who cannot work.

2.  Everyone of working age will work (will be guaranteed a job) at a socially acceptable wage enabling full participation in the community's social life. In fact the JG wage is the legal minimum wage.

Note: movement in an out of the JG wage is voluntary, when a higher wage in the private sector, or regular public sector, can be found.

3. No-one is "too lazy to do their job"; the fact is there are not enough private sector jobs.

The "engineers of human souls in the communists party" ....or in this instance, the engineers of the JG, are indeed aiming to promote individual success AND universal collective well-being.

Obviously achievable , because the resources exist to
achieve the goal.

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 8^th, 2022 at 12:19pm:


Be careful what you ask for.
In China, everyone has a job who wants one.
I saw that in action.
People who's job is to clean one street from top to bottom, all day, regardless of the weather.
People who sold toilet paper at public conveniences.

The pension in China, is actually higher than in Australia (as a percentafe of the average income)

I can just see the dole bludgers doing these jobs.
They prefer to simply sit on their arses and complain that they don't get enough.
Meanwhile, workers pay far too much tax so that there parasites can do nothing.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:


Gail Kelly, a  former CEO of Westpac, once commented on the pay differential between herself and her niece who was a teacher. Gail said she couldn't understand how the pay scales were decided, and why she was "worth" 20 times more  than a teacher. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 8^th, 2022 at 3:34pm:


Reference?