Australian Politics Forum - A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia

Valkie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16138 Central Coast Gender:	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #240 - Feb 8^th, 2022 at 5:48pm The real problem is the later generations.
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freediver

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #241 - Feb 8^th, 2022 at 6:22pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 8^th, 2022 at 10:34am:

freediver wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2022 at 6:45pm:

You have just discarded the fundamental principle of socialism - too each according to their need.

A fundamental principle of socialism is "from each according to ability" and confirmed in other words in the UN UDHR Article 23, 1. (without mentioning 'socialism'):

"Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment".

Obviously, according to the individual's ability.

Now, "to each according to need" is almost a motherhood statement: we all have basic needs which a functional economy must supply. After those needs have been met (eg via a living wage JG) , individuals are free to compete for the luxuries which an economy might supply over and above the necessities.

So I haven't discarded anything.

This is how most socialists choose to define socialism. Motherhood or not. Who told you to discard the second half? The CCP?

Quote:

Everyone has the right and responsibility to above poverty work.

So the CCP was systematically denying Chinese people this "right"?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #242 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 12:35pm

freediver wrote on Feb 8^th, 2022 at 6:22pm:

This is how most socialists choose to define socialism. Motherhood or not. Who told you to discard the second half? The CCP?

No, I choose to discard it, especially since in this thread I am promoting the MMT Job Guarantee, as required to eradicate dysfunction in Western economies.
China's 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' seems to be achieving the same outcome (full employment) in its own way, regardless of any definition of 'socialism'.

Quote:

So the CCP was systematically denying Chinese people this "right"?

The CCP is ensuring everyone works, and had eradicated absolute poverty by 2021. By 2035, relative poverty will also have been eliminated among the entire population, and the Chinese middle class will measure 800 million people...bigger the the EU and US combined.

Here is an interesting study from Oxford University:

https://academic.oup.com/cjip/article/11/1/1/4844055

Chinese Values vs. Liberalism: What Ideology Will Shape the International Normative Order?
Xuetong Yan, 2018

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48839 At my desk.	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #243 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 5:40pm Quote: The CCP is ensuring everyone works, and had eradicated absolute poverty by 2021. It also starved people to death. 50 million or so of them. Was it denying them the right to above poverty work?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #244 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:01pm

freediver wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 5:40pm:

Quote:

The CCP is ensuring everyone works, and had eradicated absolute poverty by 2021.

It also starved people to death. 50 million or so of them. Was it denying them the right to above poverty work?

The mistakes of the cultural revolution are long past.

And the personnel in the CCP itself has changed since then; who have achieved the unparalleled feat of lifting the living standards of the greatest number of people at the fastest rate in history....via a pragmatic combination of capitalism and communism ...magic.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #245 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:11pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:01pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 5:40pm:

Quote:

The CCP is ensuring everyone works, and had eradicated absolute poverty by 2021.

It also starved people to death. 50 million or so of them. Was it denying them the right to above poverty work?

The mistakes of the cultural revolution are long past.

And the personnel in the CCP itself has changed since then; who have achieved the unparalleled feat of lifting the living standards of the greatest number of people at the fastest rate in history....via a pragmatic combination of capitalism and communism ...magic.

Oh God. You're back with more BS.

The mistakes of the cultural revolution?

Over 50 million of them?

Gone?

Time to just forget and get over it yes?

What about the mistakes of 1989? The Tiananmen Square Massacre?

Should we just forget that too?

What about the people who have gone missing over the past 50 years up to today? What about those isolated in Chinese concentration camps today?

Should we forget them too?

Who/what gives you the authority to tell ANYONE here to forget and move on as though millions of lives were just NOTHING?

Seriously ... finish school then come back here after your frontal lobe has fully developed.

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Valkie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16138 Central Coast Gender:	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #246 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:12pm A few yeas ago while in Russia, they told me all about the problems they had. It must have been horrific, but they seem to be over it now, everyone seems well fed wherever I went
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freediver

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #247 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:22pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:01pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 5:40pm:

Quote:

The CCP is ensuring everyone works, and had eradicated absolute poverty by 2021.

It also starved people to death. 50 million or so of them. Was it denying them the right to above poverty work?

The mistakes of the cultural revolution are long past.

And the personnel in the CCP itself has changed since then; who have achieved the unparalleled feat of lifting the living standards of the greatest number of people at the fastest rate in history....via a pragmatic combination of capitalism and communism ...magic.

Capitalism being rapidly adopted, communism being rapidly dropped from everything except press releases.

Are you deliberately dodging the topic of human rights, or do you just not understand what the word means? Here is that question again:

Was the CCP denying it's citizens the right to above poverty work when it starved 50 million of them to death?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #248 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:34pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:11pm:

Oh God. You're back with more BS.

(....)

Quote:

The mistakes of the cultural revolution?

Over 50 million of them?

Gone?

15 - 50 million; but yes, a disaster, the result of applying collectivism too quickly, to a vast, absolute poverty, subsistence agriculture economy. (Marx did not intend his ideas to be introduced into such an economy).

Quote:

Time to just forget and get over it yes?

Not to forget, but to learn and move on; that's a basic principle of mental well being for individuals and nations.

Quote:

What about the mistakes of 1989? The Tiananmen Square Massacre?

Ditto; the economic reforms resulting in the fastest increase in living standards of any country in history took effect after that political catastrophe, meanwhile the US Capitol riots - which have seriously brought democracy itself into disrepute all around the world - happened only last year.

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Should we just forget that too?

No we must all learn from history, and avoid making the same mistakes.

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What about the people who have gone missing over the past 50 years up to today? What about those isolated in Chinese concentration camps today?

They are not missing, they are in re-education camps, unlike the ISIS leaders who are regularly assassinated by the US...

Quote:

Should we forget them too?

No. Hopefully no-one is beyond saving.

Quote:

Who/what gives you the authority to tell ANYONE here to forget and move on as though millions of lives were just NOTHING?

The knowledge that your sovereign individual ideology is causing more suffering, war and chaos in the world NOW, while the mistakes of the CCP are mostly long past, gives me the authority.

Quote:

Seriously ... finish school then come back here after your frontal lobe has fully developed.

Unfortunately the problem here is your obsolete classical liberalism and classical economics....

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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #249 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:51pm

freediver wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:22pm:

Capitalism being rapidly adopted, communism being rapidly dropped from everything except press releases.

Wrong as usual. The CCP is currently being chastised by Western economic ideologues for its crackdown on western-style real-estate investment scams, and clamp-down on the Western style funny money financial derivatives industry which has no relation to the real economy. That's why the CCP cancelled what was to be world's largest IPO (the Ant Group) last year.

Quote:

Are you deliberately dodging the topic of human rights, or do you just not understand what the word means?

Article 23 of the UN UDHR: the right to above poverty employment, still lacking in the US and Oz.

Quote:

Here is that question again:

Was the CCP denying it's citizens the right to above poverty work when it starved 50 million of them to death?

Obviously, but not deliberately, unlike the US and OZ today, who are denying that universal right as noted above.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #250 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:59pm Great Divide Are you being paid to post on political sites?
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freediver

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #251 - Feb 9^th, 2022 at 8:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

Here is that question again:

Was the CCP denying it's citizens the right to above poverty work when it starved 50 million of them to death?

Obviously, but not deliberately, unlike the US and OZ today, who are denying that universal right as noted above.

So all Chinese people currently have this right, but not all Australians?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #252 - Feb 10^th, 2022 at 8:48am

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:59pm:

Great Divide

Are you being paid to post on political sites.

No, I'm here to debate fairness versus "freedom", security versus chaos, and rule by humane authority (via consensus one-party meritocracy) versus rule by competitive self-interest (via adversarial two-party 'democracy').

Only once have I seen any real attempt at debate from you, when you defended 'survival of the 'fittest'...but then in the next breath claimed the world is being stolen from our children....

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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #253 - Feb 10^th, 2022 at 8:59am

freediver wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 8:39pm:

So all Chinese people currently have this right, but not all Australians?

A 'right' is empty rhetoric unless it is accessible by all.

The CCP has common prosperity as it guiding light, and has eradicated absolute poverty among 1.4 billion people in a mere 40 years, on the way to achieving a "prosperous socialist society in all respects" by 2035.

Whereas Oz, despite being a rich 1st world economy, has no such guiding principle, and is stuck with a dysfunctional "sink or swim" economy, which merely offers the crumbs of a 'welfare' safety-net for those who cannot compete in the free market economy.

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« Last Edit: Feb 10^th, 2022 at 9:16am by thegreatdivide »

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #254 - Feb 10^th, 2022 at 9:03am No new taxes. The reason politicians introduce new taxes, is because they are pretty sure raising existing taxes will not win votes. So they come up with all kinds of convoluted justifications for their new tax. Just like GST.
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