Australian Politics Forum - socialists and the Chinese Communist Party

thegreatdivide

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #135 - Jan 30^th, 2022 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2022 at 6:03pm:

Have you considered not drowning baby girls in a bucket of water at birth?
Or is China too much like India - impossible to change the culture?

Infanticide was common in both countries, as is usual with absolute poverty. China, being culturally pragmatic and able to adapt, has recently ended its one child policy.

India is still benighted by its delusional religious and cultural traditions.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #136 - Jan 30^th, 2022 at 6:38pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 30^th, 2022 at 6:16pm:

China, being culturally pragmatic and able to adapt, has recently ended its one child policy.

Not so pragmatic as to not have imposed it in the first place.

Romanian-style baby factories are the only option for the CCP which didn't turn out so well for Romania.

As society becomes more affluent the average family size drops to below 2. Women control how many children they're prepared to have and affluent women do not want children that will confine their lives to endless motherhood.

It's the core reason why the world population in developed countries will peak then naturally decline.

Unfortunately, China has rapidly accelerated that decline, which now appears to be irreversible.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #137 - Jan 30^th, 2022 at 8:49pm I am not convinced the end of the One Child policy was due to pragmatism. It seems more likely that the policy became unworkable.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #138 - Jan 30^th, 2022 at 8:51pm Do the Chinese hate Indians or something?
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12579 Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #139 - Jan 30^th, 2022 at 9:00pm issuevoter wrote on Jan 30^th, 2022 at 8:49pm: I am not convinced the end of the One Child policy was due to pragmatism. It seems more likely that the policy became unworkable. It wasn't pragmatism, it was panic. They went from the 2-child policy to the 3-child policy within 6 years.
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freediver

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #140 - Jan 30^th, 2022 at 9:16pm

Don't underestimate the economic benefit China has received from the policy. While it is true that birth rates often (but not always - eg oil rich middle east countries) drop as a result of wealth, the opposite is often also true. The plague is often credited with helping to kickstart the industrial revolution in Europe. People went from living on a Malthusian knife edge to having plenty of spare food, land and other resources. They were instantly richer, merely in terms of the amount of land each person owned.

Not struggling just to feed a booming population no doubt helped China. As did the extra time and money parents could invest in educating their only child. And the far higher demands and expectations they had of that child.

The western media does a lot of fear mongering about our declining or plateauing population, but it is far better than the alternative. Unless the CCP wants to use the little princes as cannon fodder, it has nothing to worry about either.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #141 - Jan 30^th, 2022 at 9:27pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2022 at 6:03pm:

Quote:

And the gender imbalance can be dealt with by attracting women from other Asian countries.

Have you considered not drowning baby girls in a bucket of water at birth?

Or is China too much like India - impossible to change the culture?

Lock in d) Eddie - impossible to change the culture.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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issuevoter

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #142 - Jan 31^st, 2022 at 8:36am

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2022 at 9:16pm:

Don't underestimate the economic benefit China has received from the policy. While it is true that birth rates often (but not always - eg oil rich middle east countries) drop as a result of wealth, the opposite is often also true. The plague is often credited with helping to kickstart the industrial revolution in Europe. People went from living on a Malthusian knife edge to having plenty of spare food, land and other resources. They were instantly richer, merely in terms of the amount of land each person owned.

Not struggling just to feed a booming population no doubt helped China. As did the extra time and money parents could invest in educating their only child. And the far higher demands and expectations they had of that child.

The western media does a lot of fear mongering about our declining or plateauing population, but it is far better than the alternative. Unless the CCP wants to use the little princes as cannon fodder, it has nothing to worry about either.

The "elephant" in the world's room is over-population, and the Chinese were the only people who tried to do anything about it. I am sorry they have abandoned the policy, but it was probably unworkable in the long run.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #143 - Jan 31^st, 2022 at 8:43am

issuevoter wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 8:36am:

The "elephant" in the world's room is over-population, and the Chinese were the only people who tried to do anything about it. I am sorry they have abandoned the policy, but it was probably unworkable in the long run.

It was short-sighted and mad.

Aside from cultural male gender-preference, a rural nation's farmers needed males to work fields.

It led to female infanticide and abandonment.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #144 - Jan 31^st, 2022 at 8:47am Quote: It led to female infanticide and abandonment. To be fair, that was already going on.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #145 - Jan 31^st, 2022 at 8:54am

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 8:47am:

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It led to female infanticide and abandonment.

To be fair, that was already going on.

And exponentially accelerated by the one-child policy.

Also, they did not take into account the only-child phenomenon who are significantly more self-centred than those who grow up with siblings, leading to a very skewed general psychological profile of two generations. They're not called little emperors for nothing.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 46530 Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #146 - Jan 31^st, 2022 at 11:03am
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #147 - Jan 31^st, 2022 at 11:19am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 8:54am:

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 8:47am:

Quote:

It led to female infanticide and abandonment.

To be fair, that was already going on.

And exponentially accelerated by the one-child policy.

Also, they did not take into account the only-child phenomenon who are significantly more self-centred than those who grow up with siblings, leading to a very skewed general psychological profile of two generations. They're not called little emperors for nothing.

Very good point.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #148 - Jan 31^st, 2022 at 12:13pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 30^th, 2022 at 6:38pm:

Not so pragmatic as to not have imposed it in the first place.

Another example of blind ideology destroying the ability to think.

A huge population living in absolute poverty must first bring population growth under control.

Quote:

Romanian-style baby factories are the only option for the CCP which didn't turn out so well for Romania.

Pass

Quote:

As society becomes more affluent the average family size drops to below 2. Women control how many children they're prepared to have and affluent women do not want children that will confine their lives to endless motherhood.

Correct (amazing, you fluke it, sometimes).

Quote:

It's the core reason why the world population in developed countries will peak then naturally decline.

In developed countries, yes,

Quote:

Unfortunately, China has rapidly accelerated that decline, which now appears to be irreversible

China was not a developed country when it introduced the one child policy.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12973 Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #149 - Jan 31^st, 2022 at 12:18pm issuevoter wrote on Jan 30^th, 2022 at 8:49pm: I am not convinced the end of the One Child policy was due to pragmatism. It seems more likely that the policy became unworkable. Well, that fits more neatly with your "failure of authoritarianism" narrative....
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