Australian Politics Forum - socialists and the Chinese Communist Party

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49071
At my desk.

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #195 - Feb 1^st, 2022 at 3:42pm

Quote:

Next you will be telling us mainstream economists DON'T promote continuous growth as the way to lift living standards.

The only way to continuously lift them is with continuous economic growth. That's a no brainer that you don't need an economist for. . But still, you are pushing a stupid strawman.

Quote:

How?

Read what I said, and read what you said in response. Do I really need to hold your hand on this?

Quote:

Too late. China is throwing huge resources (which it CAN afford) into developing its home-grown AI, IT and IC technologies.

But still not giving up the free rids on intellectual property rights, right?

Quote:

Cannon fodder? Both countries have huge populations so there is no advantage for China there.

I was suggesting the opposite.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 46437
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #196 - Feb 1^st, 2022 at 4:53pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 2:24pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 7:56pm:

You are evil like the Chinese Communist Party that pays you and keeps you.

What is the abortion rate in Australia cf with new 'unlimited child policy' in China?

Less than half of China's.

China: 28/1000 woman.
Australia: 13.5/1000

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12968 Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #197 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 2:35pm freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 1:57pm: Is "CCP sycophant" an ideology? Rule by one party, chosen out of the collective, for the collective? I suppose it's an ideology
Back to top	IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 12968
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #198 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 2:42pm

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 1:51pm:

More like the CCP is happy to tell the Chinese people how to think and behave, and devote huge resources to maintaining the facade. Any leader who deludes himself into thinking the people appreciate this is liable to get stir fried.

We all aspire to peace, (sustainable) national development, and prosperity. No-one needs to be "taught" to think that, it comes naturally.

It's the "behave" (out of self-interest) bit that is the complication.....and reveals you error.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 12968
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #199 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 3:52pm

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 3:42pm:

The only way to continuously lift (living standards) is with continuous economic growth. That's a no brainer that you don't need an economist for

.

The point is you DON'T need to increase population to lift living standards; and you DO need to contain population growth to escape absolute poverty.

Quote:

But still, you are pushing a stupid strawman.
Read what I said, and read what you said in response. Do I really need to hold your hand on this?

Here is the exchange:

You: "Economic growth does not have to mean more resource consumption".

Me: "It does to mainstream flat-earth economic ideologues... as if Oz needs to continually grow its population to achieve rising living standards".

We need to distinguish between:
1.lifting living standards
2.increasing population
3.increasing resource consumption.

Quote:

But there are plenty of resources that are in all practical respects, infinite.

You need to define which resources.....in any case the MMT revelation (in macroeconomics) is resources not money is the real issue, since money is always created out of thin air.

But evil mainstream orthodoxy reserves the privilege of money creation to private bankers.

Quote:

But still not giving up the free rids on intellectual property rights, right?

Wrong. In every field including chips, space technology, and AI, Biden and Trump before him have shut down access to US technology.

Quote:

I was suggesting the opposite.

Either way a mad suggestion.
You keep trying to defend the indefensible, eg, the madness of "freedom of belief" and the "right" of individuals to believe whatever nonsense they want - as in India, regardless of the catastrophic consequences on social cohesion.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49071
At my desk.

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #200 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 1:57pm:

Is "CCP sycophant" an ideology?

Rule by one party, chosen out of the collective, for the collective?

I suppose it's an ideology

You and the other CCP stooges here are more blinded by ideology than our labor and liberal cheerleaders. You have turned the CCP into a religion. That's the only way you could get people to describe the CCP as pragmatic compared to ideologically driven after it starved 50 million people to death in the name of socialism.

Quote:

We all aspire to peace, (sustainable) national development, and prosperity. No-one needs to be "taught" to think that, it comes naturally.

Knowing how to achieve it does not, but luckily not everyone kills 50 million people with their 'little mistakes'.

Quote:

The point is you DON'T need to increase population to lift living standards; and you DO need to contain population growth to escape absolute poverty.

Not necessarily. You just need economic growth to exceed pop[ulation growth. As your India example demonstrates.

Quote:

Me: "It does to mainstream flat-earth economic ideologues...

Well done. You correctly identified the strawman.

Quote:

You need to define which resources.....

Iron ore comes to mind.

Quote:

Wrong. In every field including chips, space technology, and AI, Biden and Trump before him have shut down access to US technology.

Can you explain why you are complaining about this? Are they supposed to give it to China for free?

Quote:

You keep trying to defend the indefensible, eg, the madness of "freedom of belief" and the "right" of individuals to believe whatever nonsense they want - as in India, regardless of the catastrophic

consequences on social cohesion.

It's odd that you keep talking about catastrophic consequences while defending the party that killed 50 million of your comrades.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 12968
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #201 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:11pm

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 4:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 2:24pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 7:56pm:

You are evil like the Chinese Communist Party that pays you and keeps you.

What is the abortion rate in Australia cf with new 'unlimited child policy' in China?

Less than half of China's.

China: 28/1000 woman.
Australia: 13.5/1000

I note China's total is around 10 million per year, India with smaller population 15.6 million per year.

Obviously living standards are inversely related to number of abortions, in this sense Oz seems relatively high

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49071
At my desk.

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #202 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:14pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:11pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 4:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 2:24pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 7:56pm:

You are evil like the Chinese Communist Party that pays you and keeps you.

What is the abortion rate in Australia cf with new 'unlimited child policy' in China?

Less than half of China's.

China: 28/1000 woman.
Australia: 13.5/1000

I note China's total is around 10 million per year, India with smaller population 15.6 million per year.

Obviously living standards are inversely related to number of abortions, in this sense Oz seems relatively high

Every time the CCP stooges look like hypocrites for criticising Australia over something the CCP does 100 times worse, they invariably change tack and attack India instead, like a well trained but unconscious racist reflex.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 12532
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #203 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:14pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:11pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 4:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 1^st, 2022 at 2:24pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 31^st, 2022 at 7:56pm:

You are evil like the Chinese Communist Party that pays you and keeps you.

What is the abortion rate in Australia cf with new 'unlimited child policy' in China?

Less than half of China's.

China: 28/1000 woman.
Australia: 13.5/1000

I note China's total is around 10 million per year, India with smaller population 15.6 million per year.

Obviously living standards are inversely related to number of abortions, in this sense Oz seems relatively high

Presuming 28/1000 is accurate and, of course, would not take into account probable abortions in rural areas and outer provinces performed outside of hospitals. Most of China's published stats have limits imposed by the CCP.

This has become evident with ludicrously low covid stats.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 12532 Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #204 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:27pm thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 3:52pm: the madness of "freedom of belief" and the "right" of individuals to believe whatever nonsense they want - as in India, regardless of the catastrophic consequences on social cohesion. There you go with your India thing again.
Back to top	IP Logged

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12968 Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #205 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 5:24pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:27pm: There you go with your India thing again. Because it's an adversarial, 2 party, democratically 'elected' rabble.....incapable of matching a results-orientated consensus one-party meritocracy.
Back to top	IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 12968
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #206 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 5:31pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Presuming 28/1000 is accurate and, of course, would not take into account probable abortions in rural areas and outer provinces performed outside of hospitals. Most of China's published stats have limits imposed by the CCP.

This has become evident with ludicrously low covid stats.

Ah.. so China is not only "racist" (while Oz is not...(!)....) it is also evil because of its high abortion rate relative to Oz with 5 times China's per capita income, forget about the abortion situation in India with 700 million still living in absolute poverty....

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 12968
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #207 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 5:36pm

freediver wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Every time the CCP stooges look like hypocrites for criticising Australia over something the CCP does 100 times worse, they invariably change tack and attack India instead, like a well trained but unconscious racist reflex.

That because India is an adversarial, two party 'democratically' elected rabble , like Oz.

Naturally abortions are decreasing in China, as living standards rise. Nothing to do with race.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 12968
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #208 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 6:02pm

freediver wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 4:04pm:

You and the other CCP stooges here are more blinded by ideology than our labor and liberal cheerleaders.

Nonsense. People in China just want to get on with their lives in an economy that is lifting the living standards of all at a faster rate than any nation in history.

They despise the fake 'free election' BS, and don't need to concern themselves with the electoral cycle, rather they can contribute to the nation's sustainable development to the best of their ability and personal advantage.

Quote:

You have turned the CCP into a religion. That's the only way you could get people to describe the CCP as pragmatic compared to ideologically driven after it starved 50 million people to death in the name of socialism.

Ancient history. As a matter of fact, China is now 3 times richer than when the 2008 Olympics were staged; that's growth for you.

Quote:

Knowing how to achieve it does not, but luckily not everyone kills 50 million people with their 'little mistakes'.

Ancient history, as noted above. Achieving the fastest increase in living standards in history in a single generation is a result of pragmatic good governance.

Quote:

Not necessarily. You just need economic growth to exceed poulation growth. As your India example demonstrates.

Barely achieved in India, with 700 million (over half the population) still living in absolute poverty.

Quote:

Iron ore comes to mind.

Iron ore is the one resource China currently needs from Oz, which has nothing to do with your evil mainstrean economic orthodoxy which reserves the privilege of money creation for private bankers.

Quote:

Can you explain why you are complaining about this? Are they supposed to give it to China for free?

China isn't complaining, it's doing what it has to do, in the face of US paranoia over losing its global hegemony.

Quote:

It's odd that you keep talking about catastrophic consequences while defending the party that killed 50 million of your comrades.

Again you are comparing long past events (50 years ago) in China, with current religious unrest in India with 700 million of its "democratically free" citizens still living in absolute poverty.

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 46437
Gender: male

Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #209 - Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 6:10pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 6:02pm: