Australian Politics Forum - socialists and the Chinese Communist Party

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #75 - Jan 28^th, 2022 at 11:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 28^th, 2022 at 5:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 28^th, 2022 at 4:57pm:

And all them Jews he murdered.

But, then, the Chinese had Mao, as did the Tibetans.

All bygone history, like the genocide of Australian aborigines; the current CCP is nothing like Mao's party; even so, the disaster under Mao was accidental not deliberate:
"The Great Chinese Famine was caused by a combination of radical agricultural policies, social pressure, economic mismanagement, and natural disasters such as droughts and floods in farming regions."

Of course the Chinese are still sensitive about their "century of humiliation" (because it is so recent) at the hands of the Western powers, so if you go sticking your nose into their internal affairs you might receive a less than friendly reception.

Good to see you won't be labeling the comparative prosperity, health and well-being of our Abos as 'genocide' again..... all bygone history.... now go - tell it to the Abo activists and their mates. We could all use some peace and quiet for a while......

So we forget about Mao and Stalin and all the rest... just some little glitch in history, and all forgotten now... what a relief....

,...... though they murdered six million,
in the ovens they fried,
the Germans now too have,
God On Their Side ....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Victor Sunny

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #76 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 7:18am

Frank wrote on Jan 26^th, 2022 at 8:37pm:

Why so many socialist Chinese billionnaires?

China is not actual socialist any more. It's actual capitalist country. Almost all state owned companies are public listed. However, some westerners are still not happy about China. It's the same as Russia even it's western style of democratic country now.

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Victor Sunny

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #77 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 7:26am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 28^th, 2022 at 11:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 28^th, 2022 at 5:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 28^th, 2022 at 4:57pm:

And all them Jews he murdered.

But, then, the Chinese had Mao, as did the Tibetans.

All bygone history, like the genocide of Australian aborigines; the current CCP is nothing like Mao's party; even so, the disaster under Mao was accidental not deliberate:
"The Great Chinese Famine was caused by a combination of radical agricultural policies, social pressure, economic mismanagement, and natural disasters such as droughts and floods in farming regions."

Of course the Chinese are still sensitive about their "century of humiliation" (because it is so recent) at the hands of the Western powers, so if you go sticking your nose into their internal affairs you might receive a less than friendly reception.

Good to see you won't be labeling the comparative prosperity, health and well-being of our Abos as 'genocide' again..... all bygone history.... now go - tell it to the Abo activists and their mates. We could all use some peace and quiet for a while......

So we forget about Mao and Stalin and all the rest... just some little glitch in history, and all forgotten now... what a relief....

,...... though they murdered six million,
in the ovens they fried,
the Germans now too have,
God On Their Side ....

Under Mao, China minority such as Uyghers / Tibetans population have grown 3-4 times. It's totally different from Hitler killed Jews or American killed all America Indians. If China was not socialist in the past, it would be more people died from poverty.

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« Last Edit: Jan 29^th, 2022 at 7:41am by Victor Sunny »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #78 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 9:19am

"American killed all America Indians."

2.757 million (2019)

**falls about laughing**.... get you head out of the propaganda books, son......

You can't keep a good Uyghur down... good to see you've dropped the 'genocide' of Aborigines now... they are thriving under the White Man's way - never had it so good with aluminium boats and fishing rods instead of a wooden canoe and a spear, Land Cruisers to get around and the opportunity to live without working or get a job same as everyone else, health care free and a heap of other things... thousands more of the bastards clogging up the welfare system etc.... carrying on in the streets as if they own the joint.... jeez - in Tasmania they were wiped out in 1842 and Tassie now has the highest per capita population of Abos in Australia - just ask them - far higher than the overall Abo population in Australia!!

Genocide my arse..... unlike Uyghurs, they aren't even thrown into concentration camps for anti-society activities... they can march here and whine to their heart's content about the evils of The White Man's Way then grab a bite to eat and a beer before going to a party, they can publicly proclaim their desire for independence, and even vandalise statues etc in acts of terrorism, and only the guilty ones if caught, are punished and then lightly.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #79 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 10:08am

Quote:

If China was not socialist in the past, it would be more people died from poverty.

The Great Chinese famine, which only ended in the 60s, is one of the greatest man-made disasters in human history. It occurred as a direct result of socialist policies from the Chinese Communist Party that were supposedly intended to help people. Somewhere between 15 and 55 million people died. Hitler could not have killed that many Jews if he tried.

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Victor Sunny

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #80 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 11:53am

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 10:08am:

Quote:

If China was not socialist in the past, it would be more people died from poverty.

The Great Chinese famine, which only ended in the 60s, is one of the greatest man-made disasters in human history. It occurred as a direct result of socialist policies from the Chinese Communist Party that were supposedly intended to help people. Somewhere between 15 and 55 million people died. Hitler could not have killed that many Jews if he tried.

You can put any unproved numbers you like. In reality, there were not that many people died from hungry at the time.

Imagine that all merchants pushed up very high food price due to foods shortage, how many ordinary people could afford? then much more people would die with hungry. However, China Communist distributed food equally to many people to keep people survived.

The great famine (1959-1962) was not under Mao leadership at the time. It was under Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping administration.

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #81 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 12:13pm

Quote:

You can put any unproved numbers you like. In reality, there were not that many people died from hungry at the time.

They were from China, not hungry. A lot of your other comrades were also confused about where the Great Chinese Famine occurred.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

Quote:

The Great Chinese Famine (Chinese: 三年大饥荒, "three years of great famine") was a period between 1959 and 1961 in the history of the People's Republic of China (PRC) characterized by widespread famine.[2][3][4][5][6] Some scholars have also included the years 1958 or 1962.[7][8][9][10] It is widely regarded as the deadliest famine and one of the greatest man-made disasters in human history, with an estimated death toll due to starvation that ranges in the tens of millions (15 to 55 million).

Quote:

Imagine that all merchants pushed up very high food price due to foods shortage, how many ordinary people could afford? then much more people would die with hungry. However, China Communist distributed food equally to many people to keep people survived.

The Chinese Communist Party killed the Chinese people with their idiotic socialist policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

The major contributing factors in the famine were the policies of the Great Leap Forward (1958 to 1962) and people's communes, such as inefficient distribution of food within the nation's planned economy, requiring the use of poor agricultural techniques, the Four Pests Campaign that reduced bird populations (which disrupted the ecosystem), over-reporting of grain production, and ordering millions of farmers to switch to iron and steel production.[4][6][8][15][17] During the Seven Thousand Cadres Conference in early 1962, Liu Shaoqi, the second Chairman of the PRC, formally attributed 30% of the famine to natural disasters and 70% to man-made errors ("三分天灾, 七分人祸").[8][18][19] After the launch of Reforms and Opening Up, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Rightist Campaign, in addition to some natural disasters and the Sino-Soviet split.

Quote:

The great famine (1959-1962) was not under Mao leadership at the time. It was under Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping administration.

Wow. What a relief.

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Victor Sunny

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #82 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 12:52pm

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You can put any unproved numbers you like. In reality, there were not that many people died from hungry at the time.

They were from China, not hungry. A lot of your other comrades were also confused about where the Great Chinese Famine occurred.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

Quote:

The Great Chinese Famine (Chinese: 三年大饥荒, "three years of great famine") was a period between 1959 and 1961 in the history of the People's Republic of China (PRC) characterized by widespread famine.[2][3][4][5][6] Some scholars have also included the years 1958 or 1962.[7][8][9][10] It is widely regarded as the deadliest famine and one of the greatest man-made disasters in human history, with an estimated death toll due to starvation that ranges in the tens of millions (15 to 55 million).

Quote:

Imagine that all merchants pushed up very high food price due to foods shortage, how many ordinary people could afford? then much more people would die with hungry. However, China Communist distributed food equally to many people to keep people survived.

The Chinese Communist Party killed the Chinese people with their idiotic socialist policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

The major contributing factors in the famine were the policies of the Great Leap Forward (1958 to 1962) and people's communes, such as inefficient distribution of food within the nation's planned economy, requiring the use of poor agricultural techniques, the Four Pests Campaign that reduced bird populations (which disrupted the ecosystem), over-reporting of grain production, and ordering millions of farmers to switch to iron and steel production.[4][6][8][15][17] During the Seven Thousand Cadres Conference in early 1962, Liu Shaoqi, the second Chairman of the PRC, formally attributed 30% of the famine to natural disasters and 70% to man-made errors ("三分天灾, 七分人祸").[8][18][19] After the launch of Reforms and Opening Up, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Rightist Campaign, in addition to some natural disasters and the Sino-Soviet split.

inefficient distribution of food That's poor transportation and was not unequal food distribution.

Wikipedia's articles are also unproved. Netizen copied and pasted contents by themselves.

I grew up in 1960s and never heard any people died from hungry in my area (poor countryside in the middle of mountains). My experience is much better than you copied those from internet! If there were 50 million people died, that's almost 10% of total population at the time. A lot of people would tell me whom and whom were died from famine, but none!

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« Last Edit: Jan 29^th, 2022 at 1:21pm by Victor Sunny »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #83 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:15pm

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 12:13pm:

They were from China, not hungry. A lot of your other comrades were also confused about where the Great Chinese Famine occurred.

Nasty...a joke at the expense of someone who does not have english as his first language.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

The Great Chinese Famine (Chinese: 三年大饥荒, "three years of great famine") was a period between 1959 and 1961 in the history of the People's Republic of China (PRC) characterized by widespread famine.[2][3][4][5][6] Some scholars have also included the years 1958 or 1962.[7][8][9][10] It is widely regarded as the deadliest famine and one of the greatest man-made disasters in human history, with an estimated death toll due to starvation that ranges in the tens of millions (15 to 55 million).

Yes, the catastrophes associated with trying to lift a huge subsistence poverty population out of poverty. Democratic India even now has still failed to improve the lot of 700 million subsistence farmers, whereas China today, with 5 times the per capita income of India, has finally eradicated this type of absolute poverty.

Quote:

The Chinese Communist Party killed the Chinese people with their idiotic socialist policies.

And yet, fast forward to today:

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-american-dream-is-alive-and-well-in-china/

[Ellen Brown examines why Chinese on average are more satisfied with their government than Americans]

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

The major contributing factors in the famine were the policies of the Great Leap Forward (1958 to 1962) and people's communes, such as inefficient distribution of food within the nation's planned economy, requiring the use of poor agricultural techniques, the Four Pests Campaign that reduced bird populations (which disrupted the ecosystem), over-reporting of grain production, and ordering millions of farmers to switch to iron and steel production.[4][6][8][15][17] During the Seven Thousand Cadres Conference in early 1962, Liu Shaoqi, the second Chairman of the PRC, formally attributed 30% of the famine to natural disasters and 70% to man-made errors ("三分天灾, 七分人祸").[8][18][19] After the launch of Reforms and Opening Up, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Rightist Campaign, in addition to some natural disasters and the Sino-Soviet split.

Yes. Meantime, much of democratic India is still a disgrace to humanity, breeding like rabbits, and without sanitation...

Quote:

Wow. What a relief.

So now can you leave China alone to govern itself, rather than pushing the absurd 'China threat' nonsense propagated by paranoid Pentagon spooks watching US global hegemony disappearing before their eyes.

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freediver

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #84 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:21pm

Victor Sunny wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 12:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You can put any unproved numbers you like. In reality, there were not that many people died from hungry at the time.

They were from China, not hungry. A lot of your other comrades were also confused about where the Great Chinese Famine occurred.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

Quote:

The Great Chinese Famine (Chinese: 三年大饥荒, "three years of great famine") was a period between 1959 and 1961 in the history of the People's Republic of China (PRC) characterized by widespread famine.[2][3][4][5][6] Some scholars have also included the years 1958 or 1962.[7][8][9][10] It is widely regarded as the deadliest famine and one of the greatest man-made disasters in human history, with an estimated death toll due to starvation that ranges in the tens of millions (15 to 55 million).

Quote:

Imagine that all merchants pushed up very high food price due to foods shortage, how many ordinary people could afford? then much more people would die with hungry. However, China Communist distributed food equally to many people to keep people survived.

The Chinese Communist Party killed the Chinese people with their idiotic socialist policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

The major contributing factors in the famine were the policies of the Great Leap Forward (1958 to 1962) and people's communes, such as inefficient distribution of food within the nation's planned economy, requiring the use of poor agricultural techniques, the Four Pests Campaign that reduced bird populations (which disrupted the ecosystem), over-reporting of grain production, and ordering millions of farmers to switch to iron and steel production.[4][6][8][15][17] During the Seven Thousand Cadres Conference in early 1962, Liu Shaoqi, the second Chairman of the PRC, formally attributed 30% of the famine to natural disasters and 70% to man-made errors ("三分天灾, 七分人祸").[8][18][19] After the launch of Reforms and Opening Up, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Rightist Campaign, in addition to some natural disasters and the Sino-Soviet split.

inefficient distribution of food That's poor transportation and was not unequal food distribution.

That's a nice way to spin it Victor.

The Chinese Communist Party made the Chinese people starve to death as equals in their last great effort at making socialism work.

But it wasn't Mao's fault. Grin

Quote:

I grew up in 1960s and never heard any people died from hungry in my area (poor countryside in the middle of mountains). My experience is much better than you copied those from internet! If there were 50 million people died, that's almost 10% of total population at the time. A lot of people would tell me whom and whom were died from famine, but none!

Wow. You even lived through it and remain ignorant of it. So how does this prove equal food distribution if 50 million of your comrades starved and you did not even realise there was a famine going on?

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freediver

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #85 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:26pm

Quote:

Nasty...a joke at the expense of someone who does not have english as his first language.

A joke at someone defending the starving to death of millions of his comrades.

Quote:

Yes, the catastrophes associated with trying to lift a huge subsistence poverty population out of poverty.

They were trying socialism. It failed. All they had to do to lift them out of poverty was get out of the way and let them lift themselves, which is what they are now doing. Instead they tried to force them to imitate western industrialisation, without understanding the real causes.

Quote:

So now can you leave China alone to govern itself, rather than pushing the absurd 'China threat' nonsense

Can you quote me, comrade?

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 105380 Melbourne Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #86 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:29pm freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:26pm: Can you quote me, comrade? Hi FD, there are communists hiding at Ozpolitic - I'm glad you're weeding them out.
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12583 Gender:	Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party Reply #87 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:36pm Deng Xiaoping imagined a China under the rule of law (as opposed to rule by law) and, some time in the future (certainly not in his lifetime), liberal democracy.
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Victor Sunny

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #88 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:41pm

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:21pm:

Wow. You even lived through it and remain ignorant of it. So how does this prove equal food distribution if 50 million of your comrades starved and you did not even realise there was a famine going on?

I think no point to argue with an anti-China stubborn activist. How many million died from famine? you name it. I already told you I never heard that. When I went uni in north China, my classmates were from every part of China and very few people talked about great famine too.

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freediver

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Re: socialists and the Chinese Communist Party
Reply #89 - Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:42pm

Victor Sunny wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:41pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:21pm:

Wow. You even lived through it and remain ignorant of it. So how does this prove equal food distribution if 50 million of your comrades starved and you did not even realise there was a famine going on?

I think no point to argue with an anti-China stubborn activist. How many million died from famine? you name it. I already told you I never heard that. When I went uni in north China, my classmates were from every part of China and very few people talked about great famine too.

Because they were afraid of being disappeared?

The ones that did talk about it, what did they say?

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