Victor Sunny wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:41pm:

Were you taught about the Tiananmen Massacre? Were you shown the film footage?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 2:47pm:


According to Western sources, estimates vary from "several hundred to several thousands". China of course was a much less self-assured nation at that time.

And "democratic governments"  weren't averse to firing on citizens either; 6 students  murdered by the 'national guard' in the US, during the Vietnam war protests. 

Victor Sunny wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 12:52pm:


This was very carefully worded Victor. Have you been practicing how to explain away millions of dead comrades to westerners?

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Except for China's brief experiment with socialism, China has been more advanced than India since civilisation began. Nothing "happened". India's GDP per capita is about one fifth that of China's, which is less than the difference between China and the US. The same thing is happening in both India and China - a transition to liberal democracy, and a booming economy as a result.

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Yes they do. We call them economists. The CCP seems to be learning from them.

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You attributed the claim to me. Back it up.

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How was it addressed? What did other Chinese people you met at Uni tell you about the famine?

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Well at least you knew it happened. I have been telling your comrades for some time now about the Great Chinese Famine. They did not seem to know what I was talking about.

Victor Sunny wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:


Again, very careful wording. So what did you see and hear about it?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 3:24pm:


A socialist system always has an uphill battle compared with  democracy, because we are all naturally (instinctively) self-interested.

Hence the establishment of socialism on behalf of the common prosperity is more difficult than establishment of democracy on behalf of 'individual freedom', and can easily be sabotaged by greedy 'sovereign individual' ideologues who don't give a rat's about common prosperity.

But the times are changing.

Today Chinese socialism is probably  more stable than US democracy, which is why democracy ideologues outside of China  are thrashing around trying to destroy China, while the younger generation in China are enjoying their rapidly increasing prosperity.    

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2022 at 3:45pm:


He said HE didn't hear about it.  Accept it .

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Now that's a narrative difficult to maintain; the Indus valley civilization c.2000 BC (whose script has still not been deciphered) preceded China's recorded history. 

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What happened is in 1950 China and India had roughly the same GDP both in per capita and total terms.  India was a capitalist democracy; China was seeking growth via "Marxism", both had c. $30  billion GDP . cf US $300 billion.

Today: US $20 trillion,  China $17 trillion, India $2.9 trillion.

So US has increased about 70 times, China 600 times, India  about 100 times. 

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..... 6 times as fast in China under consensus one party meritocracy  cf India under an adversarial  two- (multi) party democracy, despite the massive misstep in China during the Cultural revolution.

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https://finance-commerce.com/2021/10/commentary-nobody-really-knows-how-the-econ...

"It has long been a central tenet of mainstream economic theory that public fears of inflation tend to be self-fulfilling.

Now though, a cheeky and even gleeful takedown of this idea has emerged from an unlikely source, a senior adviser at the Federal Reserve named Jeremy B. Rudd. His 27-page paper, published as part of the Fed’s Finance and Economics Discussion Series, has become what passes for a viral sensation among economists.

The paper disputes the idea that people’s expectations for future inflation matter much for the level of inflation experienced today. That is especially important right now, in trying to figure out whether the current inflation surge is temporary.

As a matter of fact, Powell is considering lifting interest rates, while China is lowering them. 

(Put two economists in a room, you will get three opinions).

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Whether or not you are one of the very few Western commentators who are prepared to let China develop according to its own model is beside the point.  The West  - like you - are mostly  anti-socialist, anti China, "values based"  'sovereign individual' ideologues. 

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I wasn't in China at the time, Victor was. 

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Perhaps because their parents have experienced the fastest rate of increase in living standards of any nation in history, and don't need to know. 

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A correct statement. Amazing.

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Actually, that's not what he said.

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It's easy if you get your facts straight.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chinese-writing

It is not known when Chinese writing originated, but it apparently began to develop in the early 2nd millennium BC.

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Only in a fairly superficial sense. Politicians still openly purchase votes in India.

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Thank's also to the the internal democracy of the CCP, the recent rapid transition to capitalism, and the one child policy, which although barbaric and oppressive, has no doubt helped break the poverty cycle in China.

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What point are you trying to make? You have lost the plot completely here.

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What do you mean let? No-one is stopping China doing anything. And you miss the point again. You attributed a claim to me. Back it up. Whether I actually made the claim is entirely the point here.

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LOL. Only a fool would argue against learning the lessons of history. There is every chance the CCP will go back to the bad old ways if another true believer comes into power. The only reason for not learning from the past is so the CCP can repeat it.