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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #225 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:30am

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:23am:

So you're agreeing with me. It's taught.

It is shaped and can only be so due to an innate predisposition towards outgroup identification.

If you speak to those who have lived alongside a distinct ethnicity from their own, they will tell you of times where this outgroup identification can erupt into conflict almost inexplicably. But it's not inexplicable, its innate and usually dormant. Triggers can be an economic downturn, a sudden competition for resources, a serious crime committed on one member of a group by another. And once triggered, it can last for years, decades or centuries.

Also, think sibling rivalry also as an intimate form of outgroup identification.

Unless a child is walled in from the world into which it must ultimately interact with, it will develop a sense of outgroup identification.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12471 Gender:	Re: Whoopie Reply #226 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:30am dup
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12471 Gender:	Re: Whoopie Reply #227 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:31am dup
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mothra

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #228 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:33am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:30am:

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:23am:

So you're agreeing with me. It's taught.

It is shaped and can only be so due to an innate predisposition towards outgroup identification.

If you speak to those who have lived alongside a distinct ethnicity from their own, will tell you of times where this outgroup identification can erupt into conflict almost inexplicably. But it's not inexplicable, its innate and usually dormant. Triggers can be an economic downturn, a sudden competition for resources, a serious crime committed on one member of a group by another. And once triggered, it can last for years, decades or centuries.

Also, think sibling rivalry also as an intimate form of outgroup identification.

Unless a child is walled in from the world into which it must ultimately interact with, it will develop a sense of outgroup identification.

I think your reading very old text books.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #229 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:40am

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:33am:

I think your reading very old text books.

It's human nature and it often triggers shock when it erupts.

The Germans to this day are stunned at the capacity of their culture to allow them to so violently react to outgroups, as are those in Rwanda, the Turks with the Armenians (they can't even speak openly of it today). Partition violence in India. Religious violence by the truckload. The list is endless.

Recent neurological studies have revealed that identifying outgroups occurs even before conscious awareness of the outgroup manifests. And that's outgroups of every description; from sports, religion, ethnicity, gender. Everything.

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mothra

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #230 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:46am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:40am:

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:33am:

I think your reading very old text books.

It's human nature and it often triggers shock when it erupts.

The Germans to this day are stunned at the capacity of their culture to allow them to so violently react to outgroups, as are those in Rwanda, the Turks with the Armenians (they can't even speak openly of it today). Partition violence in India. Religious violence by the truckload. The list is endless.

Recent neurological studies have revealed that identifying outgroups occurs even before conscious awareness of the outgroup manifests. And that's outgroups of every description; from sports, religion, ethnicity, gender. Everything.

Seriously, all you've done there is propagate a bunch of racist stereotypes.

This is not representative of the human nature's intrinsic acceptance of all non-threatening people.

All you've done, again, is evidence learned behaviour.

Which is precisely what bigotry and prejudice are.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #231 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:50am

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:46am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:40am:

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:33am:

I think your reading very old text books.

It's human nature and it often triggers shock when it erupts.

The Germans to this day are stunned at the capacity of their culture to allow them to so violently react to outgroups, as are those in Rwanda, the Turks with the Armenians (they can't even speak openly of it today). Partition violence in India. Religious violence by the truckload. The list is endless.

Recent neurological studies have revealed that identifying outgroups occurs even before conscious awareness of the outgroup manifests. And that's outgroups of every description; from sports, religion, ethnicity, gender. Everything.

Seriously, all you've done there is propagate a bunch of racist stereotypes.

This is not representative of the human nature's intrinsic acceptance of all non-threatening people.

Really?

Outgroup identification is not restricted to ethnicity. It manifests even within sports rivalry.

It can and does manifest in anything.

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Gordon

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #232 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:51am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 8:05pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 8:01pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 7:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 7:50pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 7:45pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 7:39pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2022 at 6:51pm:

I think the Americans do need to have a debate about the diversity of race.

As I alluded to above, the issue of race is vastly nuanced.

It is extremely rare to find anyone of European, Asian (all Asian, from the so-called Middle East to south east Asia) and African descent to define themselves exclusively by colour.

Defining your race by colour alone is almost exclusively an African-American experience.

Actually you about 180degs off.

Most black Americans, particularly middle class and up are sick to death of talking about race and just want to get on with life.

You need to stop listening to whackadoodle CRT proponents and listen to people like John McWhorter.

It doesn't matter who's sick of it, the simplistic definition of race has had a world effect and needs to be discussed.

Those of us outside the US need to unshackle ourselves from the definition-reductionism of the term and re-nuance the term, or abandon it.

The left is obsessed with race. Move on.

Exactly. Those who don't understand the misunderstanding of race only in terms of black and white, need to move on.

Consume some John McWhorter, books, speeches, whatever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKPbrZMqxCg

As a white Australian (i'm assuming you are), do you define yourself as white? Or as Irish/British/insert race/ethnicity here or as just: white?

What I'm talking about is the current obsession of the left with race and CRT and attributing and blaming every negative outcome to race, or what ever other minority group people can latch onto.

Sorry can only find this on TT.
https://www.tiktok.com/@got_a_minute_/video/7060201117195537711

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #233 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:54am

Gordon wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:51am:

What I'm talking about is the current obsession of the left with race and CRT and attributing and blaming every negative outcome to race, or what ever other minority group people can latch onto.

Yes, where race is simplistically filtered through the American experience of black vs white.

What would, say, the Irish make of CRT with regard to their experience with the English?

The Irish were maligned by the English as much as African-American slaves.

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mothra

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #234 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:59am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:50am:

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:46am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:40am:

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:33am:

I think your reading very old text books.

It's human nature and it often triggers shock when it erupts.

The Germans to this day are stunned at the capacity of their culture to allow them to so violently react to outgroups, as are those in Rwanda, the Turks with the Armenians (they can't even speak openly of it today). Partition violence in India. Religious violence by the truckload. The list is endless.

Recent neurological studies have revealed that identifying outgroups occurs even before conscious awareness of the outgroup manifests. And that's outgroups of every description; from sports, religion, ethnicity, gender. Everything.

Seriously, all you've done there is propagate a bunch of racist stereotypes.

This is not representative of the human nature's intrinsic acceptance of all non-threatening people.

Really?

Outgroup identification is not restricted to ethnicity. It manifests even within sports rivalry.

It can and does manifest in anything.

Of course. I remember being very young and seeing my first punks. My jaw dropped and i stared. One of them cursed me .... but i was totally impressed by them. Outlier and all.

You seem preoccupied with attaching bigotry to a a recognition of difference. What i am arguing is that negative connotations associated with difference are taught.

And the inclination to cast in negative light those who are different is acquired.

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mothra

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #235 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 9:02am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:54am:

Gordon wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:51am:

What I'm talking about is the current obsession of the left with race and CRT and attributing and blaming every negative outcome to race, or what ever other minority group people can latch onto.

Yes, where race is simplistically filtered through the American experience of black vs white.

What would, say, the Irish make of CRT with regard to their experience with the English?

The Irish were maligned by the English as much as African-American slaves.

I've read your repeated declaration that racism pertaining to skin colour is a uniquely American thing.

Alas, again we disagree. It's pretty much everywhere. Not least in this fair land of Oz.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #236 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 9:04am

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:59am:

Of course. I remember being very young and seeing my first punks. My jaw dropped and i stared. One of them cursed me .... but i was totally impressed by them. Outlier and all.

You seem preoccupied with attaching bigotry to a a recognition of difference. What i am arguing is that negative connotations associated with difference are taught.

And the inclination to cast in negative light those who are different is acquired.

Outgroup identification is instinctive and its subconscious recognition triggers a response from the amygdala which is seat of the fight/flight response from anger/fear.

All of that happens (in neurological terms) ages before the subject is consciously aware of the triggered anger/fear.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Whoopie Reply #237 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 9:08am Hollywood is run by Jews. That is not a racist remark. Its a fact. Whoopie wasn't thinking clearly. You cannot say anything about them that is not parallel to their view and get away with it. However, the corner-stone of Nazi philosophy was racism and THE "holocaust" (there have been others) was a manifestation of that philosophy.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #238 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 9:09am

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 9:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:54am:

Gordon wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:51am:

What I'm talking about is the current obsession of the left with race and CRT and attributing and blaming every negative outcome to race, or what ever other minority group people can latch onto.

Yes, where race is simplistically filtered through the American experience of black vs white.

What would, say, the Irish make of CRT with regard to their experience with the English?

The Irish were maligned by the English as much as African-American slaves.

I've read your repeated declaration that racism pertaining to skin colour is a uniquely American thing.

Alas, again we disagree. It's pretty much everywhere. Not least in this fair land of Oz.

Not uniquely American by any means but has been arrogated to the American experience by the African-American experience.

Ethno-chauvinism is not restricted to skin colour.

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mothra

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Re: Whoopie
Reply #239 - Feb 4^th, 2022 at 9:11am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 9:04am:

mothra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2022 at 8:59am:

Of course. I remember being very young and seeing my first punks. My jaw dropped and i stared. One of them cursed me .... but i was totally impressed by them. Outlier and all.

You seem preoccupied with attaching bigotry to a a recognition of difference. What i am arguing is that negative connotations associated with difference are taught.

And the inclination to cast in negative light those who are different is acquired.

Outgroup identification is instinctive and its subconscious recognition triggers a response from the amygdala which is seat of the fight/flight response from anger/fear.

All of that happens (in neurological terms) ages before the subject is consciously aware of the triggered anger/fear.

Like i said, outdated text books.

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