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CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy (Read 2484 times)
Belgarion
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #30 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 11:55am
 
Athos is really working to get his 50c today! Keep up the good work comrade! Soon you will be able to afford a new bicycle!  Tongue
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #31 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 2:12pm
 
?????????

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GOD BLESS AMERICA
 
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #32 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 2:16pm
 
In China, unlike America and Australia, political legitimacy is built on competence and experience.

It is widely assumed in the West that the legitimacy of a government comes from universal suffrage and multiparty competitive elections. Yet this assumption raises two issues: First, historically, it is not true ― universal suffrage is a recent development. One can claim, for instance, that U.S. administrations only became truly legitimate in 1965, when African Americans won the right to vote. Furthermore, this practice is confined only to nation-states. It is difficult to imagine that, say, the European Union could establish its legitimacy and play its unifying role on the basis of universal suffrage.

These two points help us better understand why the Chinese sense of legitimacy is vastly different from the Western one. China is not a typical nation-state but rather a deeply historical and civilizational state. It is an amalgam of the world’s oldest continuous civilization and a huge modern state with its sense of legitimacy rooted deeply in its history. An apt analogy would be to something like the Roman Empire, if it had endured into the 21st century ― with regional and cultural diversities, a modern economy, a centralized government and a population nearly equal to that of 100 average-size European nations combined, speaking thousands of different dialects while sharing one written language.

This kind of state, a product of hundreds of states amalgamated into one over a long history, would become ungovernable if it were to adopt an adversarial political model. Such was the case in China beginning with the 1911 revolution that established the Republic of China. The country attempted to copy the American model and degenerated into chaos, with rival warlords fighting each other and tens of millions of lives lost in the decades that followed.

As a civilizational state, the legitimacy of China’s government is deeply rooted in its own historical tradition, shaped over the millennia since the country was first unified under the Emperor Qin in 221 B.C. China’s one-party governance today may look illegitimate in the eyes of many Westerners but to most Chinese. For most of the past 2,000 years, China has practiced a kind of one-party rule: governance by a unified Confucian elite that was selected through public exams (the keju) and which claimed to represent — or genuinely represented — most, if not all, under heaven. Furthermore, during much of the one-party era, China was arguably better governed, more peaceful and more prosperous than the European states of the same epoch. China began to lag behind Europe when it closed its door to the outside world in the 18th century and missed the Industrial Revolution.

As Francis Fukuyama has observed in his book The Origins of Political Order, “It is safe to say that the Chinese invented modern bureaucracy, that is, a permanent administrative cadre selected on the basis of ability rather than kinship or patrimonial connection.” China’s keju system was long used to select the most talented individuals into leading positions in government.

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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #33 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 2:51pm
 
athos wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 2:16pm:
In China, unlike America and Australia, political legitimacy is built on competence and experience.

It is widely assumed in the West that the legitimacy of a government comes from universal suffrage and multiparty competitive elections. Yet this assumption raises two issues: First, historically, it is not true ― universal suffrage is a recent development. One can claim, for instance, that U.S. administrations only became truly legitimate in 1965, when African Americans won the right to vote. Furthermore, this practice is confined only to nation-states. It is difficult to imagine that, say, the European Union could establish its legitimacy and play its unifying role on the basis of universal suffrage.

These two points help us better understand why the Chinese sense of legitimacy is vastly different from the Western one. China is not a typical nation-state but rather a deeply historical and civilizational state. It is an amalgam of the world’s oldest continuous civilization and a huge modern state with its sense of legitimacy rooted deeply in its history. An apt analogy would be to something like the Roman Empire, if it had endured into the 21st century ― with regional and cultural diversities, a modern economy, a centralized government and a population nearly equal to that of 100 average-size European nations combined, speaking thousands of different dialects while sharing one written language.

This kind of state, a product of hundreds of states amalgamated into one over a long history, would become ungovernable if it were to adopt an adversarial political model. Such was the case in China beginning with the 1911 revolution that established the Republic of China. The country attempted to copy the American model and degenerated into chaos, with rival warlords fighting each other and tens of millions of lives lost in the decades that followed.

As a civilizational state, the legitimacy of China’s government is deeply rooted in its own historical tradition, shaped over the millennia since the country was first unified under the Emperor Qin in 221 B.C. China’s one-party governance today may look illegitimate in the eyes of many Westerners but to most Chinese. For most of the past 2,000 years, China has practiced a kind of one-party rule: governance by a unified Confucian elite that was selected through public exams (the keju) and which claimed to represent — or genuinely represented — most, if not all, under heaven. Furthermore, during much of the one-party era, China was arguably better governed, more peaceful and more prosperous than the European states of the same epoch. China began to lag behind Europe when it closed its door to the outside world in the 18th century and missed the Industrial Revolution.

As Francis Fukuyama has observed in his book The Origins of Political Order, “It is safe to say that the Chinese invented modern bureaucracy, that is, a permanent administrative cadre selected on the basis of ability rather than kinship or patrimonial connection.” China’s keju system was long used to select the most talented individuals into leading positions in government.


Very well said.
Ignore the 'western-minded' idiots who can't conceive of other nations and regions not being like them.
China is currently 'ruled' by 'their' creation (Politics of Namerica and Military of the Mid-East) and the 'true' China has been suppressed. The irony is that the West's 'Politics' is what has made China what it is - so why are they complaining about it. Roll Eyes

Once the 'induced' Military/Political 'false' culture of China blows itself away via a supernova effect. The 'real' China will rise from the ashes and help lead the world on that level.

I always say, a Chinese Mathematician and Accountant is always better than a Chinese Soldier or Police person.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #34 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 3:36pm
 
The Communist Party of China has adapted this tradition for modern China, building a system for selecting its leaders based on merit and performance. For example, China’s top decision-makers ― members of the Standing Committee of the CPC Political Bureau, including President Xi Jinping ― have almost all served at least twice as party secretaries or governors of a province, which means, given the size of China’s population, they have administered populations of 100 million or more and performed well before being promoted to their top-echelon positions.

The former approximately refers to public opinion and the latter to the hearts and minds of the people. The terms were first put forward by Mencius, the most famous Confucian philosopher after Confucius himself. Minyi can be fleeting and change overnight, especially in today’s internet age, while minxin tends to be stable and lasting, reflecting the long-term interest of an entire nation. Over the past three decades, the Chinese state has generally practiced rule by minxin. This allows China to plan for the medium and long term, and even for the next generation, rather than for the next 100 days or until the next election, as is the case with many Western democracies.

To sum up, while the West has for so many years promoted the Western political model in the name of universal values, China has pursued its own experiments in the political domain since 1978, drawing lessons from the disastrous Cultural Revolution, in which ideological radicalism expunged China’s governance traditions and dashed people’s hope for prosperity and order. Thanks to this effort, China has since managed to varying degrees of success to reestablish a connection with its own past as well as borrow many useful elements from the West.

China’s meritocratic system today is essentially a mechanism of “selection plus election,” with the former originating from China’s own tradition and the latter imported from the West. Pioneered by China’s late leader Deng Xiaoping, this institutional arrangement has succeeded in ensuring an orderly transition of power over the past three decades. However imperfect, this system is in a position to compete with the Western political model. Indeed, it would be inconceivable for the Chinese system today to produce an awkward leader like U.S. President Donald Trump.

The Chinese experience since 1978 shows that the ultimate test of a political system is how well it ensures good governance as judged by the people. The dichotomy of “democracy versus autocracy” sounds hollow in today’s complex world, given the large number of poorly governed “democracies.” China’s experience may eventually usher in a paradigm shift in international political discourse from democracy versus autocracy to good governance versus bad governance.

Good governance can take the form of the Western political system or a non-Western one. Likewise, bad governance may take the form of the Western political system or a non-Western one. China emphasizes substance over procedures, believing that ultimately the pursuit of substance will evolve and produce the right procedures, appropriate to each nation’s own traditions and conditions.

A plethora of uncertainties are gripping the world today for reasons directly related to how government legitimacy has been defined by the West. It’s high time to pause and reflect that China’s age-old wisdom and well-tested practices may be relevant beyond China.

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Do we need to be always politically correct.
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #35 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 3:38pm
 
The contest today is between a US plutocracy, in which the bottom 50% of the population has experienced stagnant or declining livings standards since 1990, cf the meritocracy in China in which the bottom 50% of the population has experienced the fastest increase in living standards over the same period, in all of China's 2200 year history.
Actually In USA and the rest of the the west nothing left of democracy, there are only plutocracy
and oligarchy that successfully control everything.
Western democracy is dead but two party cartel “democracy” ruled by plutocracy and corporatocracy (Corporate fascism) are flourishing.
It is time for the west to acknowledge that China is the most successful capitalist country and that the CCP, apart from its formal name, has nothing to do with communist ideology but with meritocracy. China has proven to have a much more successful capitalism than corrupted deep state Plutocracy of the US-western Empire.
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #36 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 3:40pm
 
Jasin wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 2:51pm:
Very well said.

Please... As if he said it.

The real Athos couldn't order a big mac in English.
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #37 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 3:43pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 3:40pm:
Jasin wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 2:51pm:
Very well said.

Please... As if he said it.

The real Athos couldn't order a big mac in English.

You're both pretty good. Let that pain yas. Grin
Remember - there is always more than just 'one' right answer. Wink

btw - if you look in Maccas these days, its mostly non-english speaking that order that crap. Cheesy
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #38 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 3:48pm
 
athos wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 11:03am:
Ayn Marx wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 10:48am:
athos wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 10:26am:
Sorry dear Mr Fed
You are not in a position to talk about democracy because you do not know what democracy is. In fact, in your British colony called Australia, you only have an undemocratically elected head of the British state backed by the hypocrisy of a two-party cartel system.
Smiley


If you’ll excuse the ad hominem attack, until and unless you’re able to demonstrate anything like a basic knowledge of the Australian political system, and in the interests of not making a fool of yourself, just shut up.

"Australia is in a way a feudal extension from Britain. It never did make the peoples breach with right of nobility and authority. That was done in the US. Influenced by still instituted European Viking settled in America of peoples right to own property and land, and moreover to claim land, as Viking law allowed. The newcomer came to Australia under the crown as convicts that did not claim land and assume the right to defend themselves as led to making of the United States. By this neither were the native people recognized as free people, they were treated like convicts from the very beginning of no rights. All this needs to be corrected or there will civil uprisings, Australia needs a settled constitution of equal rights and of historical respect".
Thorsteinn Hakonarson


Thorsteinn Hakonarson ? Your really are scraping the bottom of the psuedo-maxist barrel.
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #39 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 4:34pm
 
athos wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 11:03am:
Ayn Marx wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 10:48am:
athos wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 10:26am:
Sorry dear Mr Fed
You are not in a position to talk about democracy because you do not know what democracy is. In fact, in your British colony called Australia, you only have an undemocratically elected head of the British state backed by the hypocrisy of a two-party cartel system.
Smiley


If you’ll excuse the ad hominem attack, until and unless you’re able to demonstrate anything like a basic knowledge of the Australian political system, and in the interests of not making a fool of yourself, just shut up.

"Australia is in a way a feudal extension from Britain. It never did make the peoples breach with right of nobility and authority. That was done in the US. Influenced by still instituted European Viking settled in America of peoples right to own property and land, and moreover to claim land, as Viking law allowed. The newcomer came to Australia under the crown as convicts that did not claim land and assume the right to defend themselves as led to making of the United States. By this neither were the native people recognized as free people, they were treated like convicts from the very beginning of no rights. All this needs to be corrected or there will civil uprisings, Australia needs a settled constitution of equal rights and of historical respect".
Thorsteinn Hakonarson




Not many people know that between 1718 and 1775 over 52,000 convicts were transported from the British Isles to America, mainly to Maryland and Virginia, to be sold as slaves to the highest bidder. It is reckoned that transported convicts made up a quarter of the British immigrants to colonial America in the 18th century.


The First Fleet and the British settlement of Australia happened because convicts could no longer be transported to America after its independence in 1776.
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #40 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 7:06pm
 
athos wrote on Feb 16th, 2022 at 10:26am:
freediver wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 8:22pm:
Quote:
How do you know what the non Anglo Aussies people think?


Support for democracy is not a function of race. The only people I have come across who are ideologically opposed to democracy, other than stooges for various dictators, are Muslims, who are in a sense also stooges for a dictator, just one who is long dead.

Obviously when you or one of the other stooges say the Chinese people despise democracy, everyone realises you are lying. The CCP opposes democracy, for obvious reasons. The rest of the Chinese people have no choice in the matter.

Being of the same race, or living in China or Hong Kong, does not mean you speak for all Chinese people, any more than I speak for all white or all Australian people. But I can tell you what they think on a lot of issues. It's easier in Australia because we have the right to ask them, and they have the right to say, very loudly if they feel they are being ignored or misrepresented. Again, this is not because my race or my nationality gives me special knowledge. And living in China is not a basis for any kind of knowledge. People who live in China are generally ignorant, because the CCP makes them so. Particularly on issues concerning China itself. Case in point: CCP stooges explaining to us why the CCP prevents the Chinese people from learning about the Great Chinese Famine.

So I ask again, how do you know that the Chinese people despise democracy?


Sorry dear Mr Fed
You are not in a position to talk about democracy because you do not know what democracy is. In fact, in your British colony called Australia, you only have an undemocratically elected head of the British state backed by the hypocrisy of a two-party cartel system.
Smiley



How do you know that the Chinese people despise democracy?

Quote:
In China, unlike America and Australia, political legitimacy is built on competence and experience.


How does starving 50 million of your own citizens to death by trying to feed them work into that? Most people would call that worse than incompetence, don't you think?

Quote:
The Communist Party of China has adapted this tradition for modern China, building a system for selecting its leaders based on merit and performance.


The CCP is internally democratic. That's the biggest irony here.

Quote:
The contest today is between a US plutocracy, in which the bottom 50% of the population has experienced stagnant or declining livings standards since 1990, cf the meritocracy in China in which the bottom 50% of the population has experienced the fastest increase in living standards over the same period, in all of China's 2200 year history.


It's easy to "improve" when you start at starving. What are they up to now? $2 a day?
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« Last Edit: Feb 16th, 2022 at 7:14pm by freediver »  

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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #41 - Feb 20th, 2022 at 10:26am
 
Xi Jinping Criticizes Trudeau's Heavy-Handed Approach



BEIJING—Chinese President Xi Jinping has reportedly looked on Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's handling of Canadian protesters with surprise, describing it as "monstrous" and "heavy-handed."

"I'm shocked by Trudeau's horrific mistreatment of his own people," said President Xi Jinping while helping himself to a jar of honey. "He's being very heavy-handed with these protesters. It's shameful!"

Xi, who polices his own people for thought crimes, suggested that Trudeau try a more subtle approach. "I'm constantly throwing people in prison," he said. "But I do so discreetly while silencing anyone who speaks of it."

"Please understand," he continued. "I believe he should throw them all in camps to make shoes for the Americans. But he's openly criticizing them—giving their cause a voice."

"It's a rookie move."

Trudeau, who has referred to people sitting in their trucks as violent protesters sieging the city, has claimed that he only desires to crush his citizens under the jackboot of tyranny, revel in their cries of anguish, and scatter their wasted corpses to the wind.

"I don't see what's so heavy-handed about that," said Trudeau.

New York Times(?)
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #42 - Feb 20th, 2022 at 10:53am
 
What a fantasy
Smiley
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« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2022 at 11:01am by athos »  

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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #43 - Feb 20th, 2022 at 10:55am
 
How do you know that the Chinese people despise democracy?

If you keep letting the CCP get away with "little mistakes" like starving 50 million of your citizens to death with unequal food distribution, do you think they might be more inclined to repeat those mistakes in the belief they can get away with it again?
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Re: CCP stooges: Chinese people despise democracy
Reply #44 - Mar 27th, 2022 at 2:20pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27th, 2022 at 2:04pm:
I would have thought distinguishing between rule by elected adversarial  parties, and consensus meritocracies,  was subtle enough, 


Are you suggesting China has a consensus meritocracy?
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