Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 11:00pm:

Exactly.

However, there's no such thing as true independence (at least not in the absolute sense).

The only societies that are close to absolute independence are those yet to be discovered.

Every nation/society has a degree of strategic value - even small pacific island nations - they at least have a vote each in the UN, as Japan exploited over whaling, for example.

Note : This was happening while we were busy being blindsided by Delta and Omicron and China and mandated vaccine passports etc

June 2021

At the Brussels Summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine would become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process and Ukraine's right to determine its own future and foreign policy, of course without outside interference.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO, as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest, when large countries decide what smaller ones should do.

November 2021

Russian President Putin stated that an expansion of NATO's presence in Ukraine, especially the deployment of any long-range missiles capable of striking Russian cities or missile defense systems similar to those in Romania and Poland, would be a "red line" issue for Russia. Putin asked U.S. President Joe Biden for legal guarantees that NATO wouldn’t expand eastward or put "weapons systems that threaten us in close vicinity to Russian territory."According to Putin, "If some kind of strike systems appear on the territory of Ukraine, the flight time to Moscow will be seven to 10 minutes, and five minutes in the case of a hypersonic weapon being deployed."

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg replied that "It's only Ukraine and 30 NATO allies that decide when Ukraine is ready to join NATO. Russia has no veto, Russia has no say, and Russia has no right to establish a sphere of influence to try to control their neighbours.

December 2021

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he wanted to receive guarantees from the West that Ukraine would not join NATO. On 16 December, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg stated that the Alliance would not make concessions to Russia on the issue of Ukraine's accession. According to him, Ukraine has the right to protection and together with NATO will determine the issue of membership in the Alliance.

January 2022

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that NATO will not compromise with Russia on Ukraine's membership and that Ukraine's membership in NATO will be decided by Ukraine and its allies. He assured that the Alliance helps Ukraine to meet the criteria necessary for membership in the organization.

The Alliance continues to provide Ukraine with political support for its territorial integrity and sovereignty, as well as practical assistance. It is also a clear signal that Ukraine has the right to defend itself.


* Could you guys please read the above timeline of recent events and tell me what you think?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 9:07am:


Yes. Hence why I support NATO's stance in essentially calling Putin a BS liar and bully.

Let's take a cursory glance at history. Where? Anywhere in the world. When? Any time you like.

What will you find? 

ANY country which embarks on its own separate expansionist path WILL come undone. Eventually.

You'd think Russia would already know this? Yes? Just grab 2 examples from history's page directly affecting Russia itself. Napoleon and Hitler failed miserably trying to get to Moscow when they saw fit to expand their regimes.

Of course Russia knows. So for me the question is why are they STILL pushing FOR Ukraine in particular?

Russia needs something. What has Ukraine got?

Let's take another look at history for a clue : Russia has dreadfully used/abused the Ukraine for over a century because it has an abundance in natural and mineral resources. And Russia needs those.

What NATO is saying to Putin is essentially this : hands off Ukraine as it's independent and we support its right to autonomy. We are NATO and we are the good guys.

What NATO is NOT saying is this : Ukraine has natural and mineral resources which we need. So let's jump on board Ukraine's mission to remain independent and we'll even invite it into our organisation. There's no doubt in my mind that there will be a lot of strings attached to that support package. And all those strings will favour NATO of course...and by that I mean US and UK etc.

Essentially we're looking at a tug of war for resources worth trillions of dollars and THAT covert tug of war is the real agenda being dressed up as Ukraine's right to freedom and autonomy.

Global politics is all about what's not being said. You have to constantly read btwn the lines.

You know what just occurred to me?

If the issue of depleting natural mineral resources is really that serious then this current tug of war could well blow us all into a shocking new type of warfare.

Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians.
The Anglo-Brotherhood would like to fight against the Russians to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.
 

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 11:32am:


This is not what I know, but what the Ukrainian and Russian media are objectively saying, unlike the Anglo brotherhood fake news media.
So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for NATO troops build-up along the Russian border?.

athos wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 11:50am:

What do you mean by 'objectively' saying?

As I don't presume to know what Russians or Ukrainians think and, more to the point, what Putin is planning, there's a number of options:

Putin is:

- Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine
- Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw
- Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine
- Planning a full invasion of Ukraine

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 12:31pm:


You might need to ignore Athos. He's a regular troll /POS who loves interrupting topics with his incompetent driven clueless mumblings.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 12:21pm:


The article below confirms our suspicions in this topic. This IS really a geopolitical tug of war over resources.

No one really WANTS war. What will happen unfortunately is that countries will find themselves slipping into war.

The main problem with that is that weaponry has changed. Big time.

Example : Hypersonic missiles - once these are launched by 1 side, the target country may not have time to activate its own (assuming it also has these missiles of course).

The acronym MAD also comes to mind. 😩


https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/