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Russia will not invade Ukraine (Read 20236 times)
MeisterEckhart
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #60 - Feb 15th, 2022 at 7:35pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 7:25pm:
No one really WANTS war. What will happen unfortunately is that countries will find themselves slipping into war.

International diplomacy is high-stakes poker/uno where everyone is cheating.

War is the worst possible outcome for all, so the trick is for one side not to make a mistake so great that the opposition must take the next logical towards the worst-case scenario.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #61 - Feb 15th, 2022 at 7:55pm
 
It is sovereign right of Mother Russkiye to have access to year round warm water ports.... humanitarian issue, Tovarich, without warm water port access Russkye will become kingdom of serfs again due to poverty... no trade no food ....Ukraine creating humanitarian disaster heaping on Russkye peoples!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #62 - Feb 16th, 2022 at 9:32am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 2:41pm:
You might need to ignore Athos. He's a regular troll /POS who loves interrupting topics with his incompetent driven clueless mumblings.

Yes. Despite the poor English, there is something algorithmic about his replies.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Russia IS getting ready to invade Ukraine
Reply #63 - Feb 17th, 2022 at 6:42am
 
Take a look at this 😳🥺

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/16/ukraine-russia-latest-news-li...

Ukraine crisis: Nato considering new battlegroups in eastern Europe after ‘no sign’ of Russian de-escalation – live

• Nato secretary general sees ‘no sign of de-escalation on the ground’ and says organisation is developing options for bolstering eastern flank

• Ukraine accuses Russia of cyber-attack on banks and defence ministry

• Russians ridicule western media on ‘day of no invasion’

• Checks at UK airport over fears extremists may travel to Ukraine

• Russia still building forces on Ukraine border, says top Nato official
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Russia IS getting ready to invade Ukraine
Reply #64 - Feb 17th, 2022 at 6:50am
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/16/ukraine-russia-latest-news-li...

Live Feed

• 3h ago      Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky declares 'we will defend ourselves'

• 3h ago      UK to double number of British troops in Estonia as part of Nato mission

• 5h ago      Nato considering new battlegroups to bolster eastern flank

• 5h ago      Stoltenberg says Russia's military buildup around Ukraine is 'biggest concentration of forces in Europe since Cold War'

• 5h ago      Nato secretary general sees 'no sign of de-escalation on the ground' and warns Russia it's not to late to step back

• 5h ago      Nato secretary general Jens Stoltenberg to give press conference on Ukraine
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tickleandrose
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #65 - Feb 17th, 2022 at 7:11am
 
I am not sure about an invasion.  The math does not add up.  Unless of course, those in power have access to information that we dont know. 

150 thousand Russian troops is not enough for a full scale invasion of Ukraine.   In Gulf War 2, the USA amassed over 350 thousand troops plus more paramilitary contractors to take down Iraq - a country without allies, and poor due to years of sanction.   And all US could do was to control the capital and the rest into the hands of ISIS. 

Ukraine has population of over 44 million people.  150 thousand troops probably cant even control or invade Melbourne. 

Something just dont add up.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #66 - Feb 17th, 2022 at 7:20am
 
tickleandrose wrote on Feb 17th, 2022 at 7:11am:
I am not sure about an invasion.  The math does not add up.  Unless of course, those in power have access to information that we dont know. 

150 thousand Russian troops is not enough for a full scale invasion of Ukraine.   In Gulf War 2, the USA amassed over 350 thousand troops plus more paramilitary contractors to take down Iraq - a country without allies, and poor due to years of sanction.   And all US could do was to control the capital and the rest into the hands of ISIS. 

Ukraine has population of over 44 million people.  150 thousand troops probably cant even control or invade Melbourne. 

Something just dont add up. 


1. Weaponry has advanced since Gulf War 2.

2. This is an awesome opportunity for Russia to TEST some of it.

Remember WW2 and the bomb? What a wonderful testing opportunity Japan's decision to play hard politics offered the US. Twice.

This is fast becoming something like that historical event.

* Modern History : a subject which ought to be made compulsory for all students from yr7 to yr12. It's the only way to prep the up and coming generation I reckon. They need to be able to draw parallels btwn the BS happening today and yesterday. Why? What we are witnessing today is pretty much predicated on what's happened in the past. The only difference is we can now continue the spat all over again somewhere else or all over again in the same place even! Why not?

At some stage ....a future generation will wake up to itself and realize that it's been trapped in a vicious toxic vortex which needs to be extinguished.

My generation (the X Generation) is NOT that future generation. We're still asleep.

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« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2022 at 7:35am by Lisa Jones »  

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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athos
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #67 - Feb 17th, 2022 at 10:56am
 
Europe is under the occupation of the Anglo-Brotherhood. More than 70,000 American soldiers are stationed in Europe and 40,000 in Germany.
China only hopes that Europe will regain its freedom.
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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #68 - Feb 17th, 2022 at 11:09am
 
athos wrote on Feb 17th, 2022 at 10:56am:
Europe is under the occupation of the Anglo-Brotherhood. More than 70,000 American soldiers are stationed in Europe and 40,000 in Germany.
China only hopes that Europe will regain its freedom.


What a load of shyte!

China hopes that the US and Russia go head to head so after the dust has settled ...China can walk in and take over what's left. If indeed anything is left.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #69 - Feb 18th, 2022 at 11:52am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 12:31pm:
athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:50am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:32am:
athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 10:58am:
Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians.

So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for the Russian troop build-up along Ukraine's border?


This is not what I know, but what the Ukrainian and Russian media are objectively saying, unlike the Anglo brotherhood fake news media.
So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for NATO troops build-up along the Russian border?.

Smiley

What do you mean by 'objectively' saying?

As I don't presume to know what Russians or Ukrainians think and, more to the point, what Putin is planning, there's a number of options:

Putin is:

A Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine
B Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw
C Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine
D Planning a full invasion of Ukraine


Putin: 'Please to lock in B, Eddie Evrywareavich'.

Putin: 'Or maybe C'...

Putin: 'Thinking, could be D'.
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Frank
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #70 - Feb 21st, 2022 at 8:10am
 
Ukraine’s demographic decline is so pronounced that it should be high on the list of strategic considerations. For what, and for whom, might NATO and Russia go to war?

Ukrainians vote with their feet. Nine million have work abroad, according to the National Security and Defense Council of the Ukraine, and 3.2 million have full-time jobs in other countries. There are only 21 million Ukrainians between the ages of 20 and 55, which suggests that more than two-fifths of prime working-age Ukrainians earn their living elsewhere.

I do not know whether this estimate includes half a million Ukrainian prostitutes working abroad since independence, according to one scholarly estimate.

After years of demographic decline, the country has more citizens over 65 years of age than working-age people between 20 and 65.  The UN Population Program forecasts its population will fall by more than half in the course of this century. As noted, the country’s main demographic institute thinks the population is already 30% less than the level reported by the official census.
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2022/01/27/what-if-they-had-a-war-but-there-was-no-...
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #71 - Feb 21st, 2022 at 10:24am
 
Frank wrote on Feb 21st, 2022 at 8:10am:
Ukraine’s demographic decline is so pronounced that it should be high on the list of strategic considerations. For what, and for whom, might NATO and Russia go to war?

Ukrainians vote with their feet. Nine million have work abroad, according to the National Security and Defense Council of the Ukraine, and 3.2 million have full-time jobs in other countries. There are only 21 million Ukrainians between the ages of 20 and 55, which suggests that more than two-fifths of prime working-age Ukrainians earn their living elsewhere.

I do not know whether this estimate includes half a million Ukrainian prostitutes working abroad since independence, according to one scholarly estimate.

After years of demographic decline, the country has more citizens over 65 years of age than working-age people between 20 and 65.  The UN Population Program forecasts its population will fall by more than half in the course of this century. As noted, the country’s main demographic institute thinks the population is already 30% less than the level reported by the official census.
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2022/01/27/what-if-they-had-a-war-but-there-was-no-...


Interesting facts.

And of course there's this little spot of bother :

25% of Ukraine's population is Russian.
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #72 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 6:45pm
 
A moment in which our world could all change
TONY ABBOTT

Few things have been more telling than the reaction of key countries to the Russian army poised on Ukraine’s borders. Britain and the US have sent antitank and anti-aircraft missiles but no troops. Germany has been reluctant even to threaten sanctions should Russia invade. In shades of Munich, France has championed a peace deal based on changing the Ukrainian constitution to meet Russia’s demands. The only ones to emerge with much credit are Ukrainians, who’ve manned their defences and insisted on their right to conduct an independent foreign policy, including to join NATO and the EU.

But regardless of how this episode plays out, let’s be under no illusion. Vladimir Putin sees himself as the new tsar, a ruler for life, determined to restore greater Russia. To that end he has invaded Georgia, annexed Crimea, occupied the Donbas, killed without compunction opponents at home and abroad, and restored Russia as a military superpower despite an economy smaller than Italy’s.

Ukraine is but his present target because it persists in looking West, not East; and because the 1994 Anglo-American security assur­ance, in return for the surrender of Soviet-era nuclear weapons, failed to replicate the one-in, all-in provision of article five of the NATO charter. However the stand-off ends, we can be confident Putin’s campaign will continue, remorseless, relentless, by all means up to and including all-out war, until Ukraine becomes a Russian colony. Then his attention will turn to the Baltic States, then to Poland, then to the other former Soviet satellites, until Russia is again the overlord of eastern Europe.

Of course, Putin is not Hitler and Ukraine is not Czechoslovakia, and these are not the 1930s, but there are plenty of disturbing parallels, including a new axis of great powers ready to disturb the peace to get what they want.

A fortnight ago the Russian dictator and his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, issued a declaration on international relations entering a new era. We know the type of new era they have in mind from their preposterous claim that Russia and China enjoy “longstanding traditions of democracy”. The main purpose of this Moscow-Beijing axis is to bury, they say, the “political and military alliances of the Cold War era” – so no more NATO, no US troops in Japan and South Korea, and an end to the Pax Americana – through a dictators’ partnership that has “no limits” and no “forbidden areas of co-operation”.

At heart what they both reject is the US-backed world order, a liberal and humane set of understandings and arrangements that has enabled the best time in human history; with the world’s people freer, safer and more prosperous than ever. Even though they’ve both benefited from it, with a half-billion Chinese moving from the Third World to the middle class in scarcely a generation, after US president Bill Clinton bent the rules to admit China to the World Trade Organisation; and with Russia becoming a petro power that can turn Europe’s energy on and off like a tap.

So, with these latter-day dictators clearly on the march, as Lenin once asked: what is to be done? A response to the dictators starts with appreciating that just because war is unthinkable to us doesn’t make it unthinkable to them. Since the beginning of time the strong have always been tempted to take advantage of the weak; and the tough and the hungry have always sought to usurp the indolent and the soft. Throw in what Scottish philosopher David Hume recognised, that passions drive reason, and what’s unthinkable to most can become entirely reasonable to some, especially those on a quest for national glory.

As their adventurism shows, both countries’ exceptionalism includes the conviction that they should dominate their regions, if not the wider world. And, as the five decades after 1945 show, the only way to keep aggressors at bay is collective security, otherwise the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must.

Take eastern Europe: if it’s Russia against Ukraine, sooner or later Russia will prevail, as Russia ultimately did against Finland in 1940. Take East Asia: if it’s China against Taiwan, China inevitably will prevail. But if it’s Russia or China versus the democracies, one for all and all for one, that’s an entirely different matter.

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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #73 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 6:47pm
 
Perhaps this military crisis might awaken the people of Western countries, so recently discombobulated by a virus and so unaccustomed to sacrifice, to how readily a freedom that’s not cherished and defended can be lost. As history shows, the best way to make potential aggressors think again is to have a contingent of allied soldiers in place so that an attack on a relatively weaker country means engaging the forces of relatively stronger ones. At the very least NATO should be ready substantially to reinforce its frontline states and to supply the Ukrainians with whatever they need to fight on. The point of this would not be to threaten Russia or China with offensive weapons; just to remind bullies of the natural solidarity that should exist between countries striving to be free.

We have to make the war that’s unthinkable to us, for moral reasons, unthinkable to them for prudential reasons. We who shrink from war because it’s morally wrong have to make others shrink from war because they’d likely lose. Of course, our instinctive initial reaction is to avoid “quarrels in faraway countries between people of whom we know nothing”. Yet what other countries’ freedom might be dispensable, if theirs is? And who would we fight alongside if not them? And if others’ fights aren’t ours, who might help us when our turn comes?

Even now I’m not sure how widely it’s grasped what’s at stake in this confrontation between democracy and autocracy, between sovereignty and subservience, and how the whole trajectory of history could change. If Russia seizes Ukraine, a new iron curtain will ring down in Europe. If China exploits the confusion to seize Taiwan, the world order would shift against the democracies as Indo-Pacific countries made the best deal they could with the red superpower or armed themselves to the teeth against it.

Meanwhile, comrades Putin and Xi watch the scuttle from Kabul, because a long-term military presence was judged to be too hard; the toppling of statues, because yesterday’s heroes have to be damned by today’s standards; and our self-flagellation over race and identity, even though there’s never been less racism, and minorities have never had a fairer go – and conclude a decadent West is unlikely to defend itself with vigour, let alone stand up for others.

They see America in retreat and no other country or collection of countries with strength and goodwill sufficient to be the guardian of peace with freedom. For all of us as individuals and for each of our countries, the challenge is to prove them wrong.

Tony Abbott was the 28th Australian prime minister. This is an edited extract of his speech on Monday to the Danube Institute in Budapest.
https://danubeinstitute.hu/
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Re: Russia will not invade Ukraine
Reply #74 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 9:46pm
 
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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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