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CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west (Read 10244 times)
Frank
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #90 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:39pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:
China is fccd, its days in the sun  are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.
 

China is debating MMT ... as is the West; watch out if  the PBofC  finally wakes up to the power at its fingertips...(it's all about resources, not money).

China, Russia are fccd. Nobody will stand for moronic dictators like them any more. Treating thugs nicely is over.

China's free ride is over.


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athos
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #91 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:52pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:
China is fccd, its days in the sun  are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.
 

China is debating MMT ... as is the West; watch out if  the PBofC  finally wakes up to the power at its fingertips...(it's all about resources, not money).

China, Russia are fccd. Nobody will stand for moronic dictators like them any more. Treating thugs nicely is over.

China's free ride is over.


What a moronic comment?
Grin
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Karnal
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #92 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 9:37pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:
China is fccd, its days in the sun  are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.
 

China is debating MMT ... as is the West; watch out if  the PBofC  finally wakes up to the power at its fingertips...(it's all about resources, not money).

China, Russia are fccd. Nobody will stand for moronic dictators like them any more. Treating thugs nicely is over.

China's free ride is over.




Oh-er, China's poised to become the number one economy, old boy. Over?

China is about to begin. No country can isolate China as they've done with Russia. It's too important to global supply chains.

Even a bot can see this, dear. You?
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Frank
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #93 - Mar 24th, 2022 at 5:46pm
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 9:37pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:
China is fccd, its days in the sun  are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.
 

China is debating MMT ... as is the West; watch out if  the PBofC  finally wakes up to the power at its fingertips...(it's all about resources, not money).

China, Russia are fccd. Nobody will stand for moronic dictators like them any more. Treating thugs nicely is over.

China's free ride is over.




Oh-er, China's poised to become the number one economy, old boy. Over?

China is about to begin. No country can isolate China as they've done with Russia. It's too important to global supply chains.

Even a bot can see this, dear. You?


Japan was poised to be the number one economy in the 1990s.

China is being detached from the West strategically. Dependence on China is scaled back. Trust in China is SEVERELY scaled back. It's support for Russia will only accelerate all that.

China will have to make its own people richer and rely less on exporting to the West under false promises it made when it was allowed into the WTO. And when the Chinese are richer they will boot the CCP.
There is no long term future for communist dictatorships just as there isn't for fascist ones.






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thegreatdivide
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #94 - Mar 25th, 2022 at 3:13pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 24th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Japan was poised to be the number one economy in the 1990s.

Yes, and what happened? Some say external forces as well as internal mistakes prevented Japan from overtaking the US.  But in any case Japan is only 100 million people.

Quote:
China is being detached from the West strategically. Dependence on China is scaled back. Trust in China is SEVERELY scaled back. It's support for Russia will only accelerate all that.


Certainly the US - desperate to maintain global hegemony - is spreading the "China threat" theory....

Quote:
China will have to make its own people richer and rely less on exporting to the West under false promises it made when it was allowed into the WTO.


False promises? [note: the WTO itself has been incapacitated by Trump who refused to allow timely elections in the WTO bureaucracy).

Quote:
And when the Chinese are richer they will boot the CCP.


How much richer? When China is the double the US economy? Why would they boot the CCP?

Quote:
There is no long term future for communist dictatorships just as there isn't for fascist ones.


Correct; but a consensus meritocracy is neither of those.






[/quote]
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Karnal
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #95 - Mar 26th, 2022 at 4:13pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 24th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 9:37pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:
China is fccd, its days in the sun  are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.
 

China is debating MMT ... as is the West; watch out if  the PBofC  finally wakes up to the power at its fingertips...(it's all about resources, not money).

China, Russia are fccd. Nobody will stand for moronic dictators like them any more. Treating thugs nicely is over.

China's free ride is over.




Oh-er, China's poised to become the number one economy, old boy. Over?

China is about to begin. No country can isolate China as they've done with Russia. It's too important to global supply chains.

Even a bot can see this, dear. You?


Japan was poised to be the number one economy in the 1990s.

China is being detached from the West strategically. Dependence on China is scaled back. Trust in China is SEVERELY scaled back. It's support for Russia will only accelerate all that.

China will have to make its own people richer and rely less on exporting to the West under false promises it made when it was allowed into the WTO. And when the Chinese are richer they will boot the CCP.
There is no long term future for communist dictatorships just as there isn't for fascist ones.








Japan was never poised for long, old boy. It doesn't have the population.

If you're making the claim that China will NOT overtake America's GDP in the next decade, you're perhaps the only person in the world to do so.

But that's okay. China WILL become number one, as every schoolboy knows. Year 9 maths, innit.

China has proven that there is indeed a future for communist dictatorships whether we like this or not.

So unfair, no?
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Karnal
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #96 - Mar 26th, 2022 at 4:39pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2022 at 3:13pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 24th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Japan was poised to be the number one economy in the 1990s.

Yes, and what happened? Some say external forces as well as internal mistakes prevented Japan from overtaking the US.  But in any case Japan is only 100 million people.

Quote:
China is being detached from the West strategically. Dependence on China is scaled back. Trust in China is SEVERELY scaled back. It's support for Russia will only accelerate all that.


Certainly the US - desperate to maintain global hegemony - is spreading the "China threat" theory....

Quote:
China will have to make its own people richer and rely less on exporting to the West under false promises it made when it was allowed into the WTO.


False promises? [note: the WTO itself has been incapacitated by Trump who refused to allow timely elections in the WTO bureaucracy).

Quote:
And when the Chinese are richer they will boot the CCP.


How much richer? When China is the double the US economy? Why would they boot the CCP?

Quote:
There is no long term future for communist dictatorships just as there isn't for fascist ones.


Correct; but a consensus meritocracy is neither of those.








Actually, Great, until you came here I questioned the China "threat" theory myself. Alas, you've made China's ambitions all too clear.

You and Athos have both expressed your desire for Chinese military domination. You both expect China to assert itself upon the rest of us at some point.

You've also made it clear that you have a beef with countries whose citizens vote. I would have thought there'd be more subtlety in our discussions here, but no. You genuinely see the world in terms of vetocracies and autocraticies - hence your support for Russia.

Until you confirmed this view in your own posts, I never would have seen this. Without you, I'd be hosing down talk of  Chinese military expansion and domination. Unfortunately, you've confirmed it.

We don't have genuine democracy in Australia, but Australians do hold the ideal of democracy to be self evident, just from different angles. You don't value it at all.

More, you're quite happy to support autocracies just for being autocratic, as you do with Putin, who has no socialist sympathies whatsoever. You're quite comfortable for your party to ally with dictators in the struggle against Western liberal democracy.

Therein lies a great divide, dear.
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Frank
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #97 - Mar 26th, 2022 at 8:50pm
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 26th, 2022 at 4:13pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 24th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 9:37pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:
China is fccd, its days in the sun  are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.
 

China is debating MMT ... as is the West; watch out if  the PBofC  finally wakes up to the power at its fingertips...(it's all about resources, not money).

China, Russia are fccd. Nobody will stand for moronic dictators like them any more. Treating thugs nicely is over.

China's free ride is over.




Oh-er, China's poised to become the number one economy, old boy. Over?

China is about to begin. No country can isolate China as they've done with Russia. It's too important to global supply chains.

Even a bot can see this, dear. You?


Japan was poised to be the number one economy in the 1990s.

China is being detached from the West strategically. Dependence on China is scaled back. Trust in China is SEVERELY scaled back. It's support for Russia will only accelerate all that.

China will have to make its own people richer and rely less on exporting to the West under false promises it made when it was allowed into the WTO. And when the Chinese are richer they will boot the CCP.
There is no long term future for communist dictatorships just as there isn't for fascist ones.



Japan was never poised for long, old boy. It doesn't have the population.

If you're making the claim that China will NOT overtake America's GDP in the next decade, you're perhaps the only person in the world to do so.

But that's okay. China WILL become number one, as every schoolboy knows. Year 9 maths, innit.

China has proven that there is indeed a future for communist dictatorships whether we like this or not.

So unfair, no?



China is poorer PER CAPITA than Costa Rica or Botswana.

75      Azerbaijan      $17,450      $4,139      102%
76      Costa Rica      $17,110      $11,573      100%
77      Botswana      $17,024      $7,894      100%
78      Iraq      $16,935      $5,114      99%
79      China      $16,842      $8,612      98%
80      Maldives      $16,688      $9,802      98%
81      Dominican Republic      $16,064      $7,223      94%
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/

The Chinese will get old, not rich.

Also, it will be first gay military power since Sparta: there is a severe gender imbalance in the country - last year, there were 34.9 million more males than females. This is a hangover of the country's strict one-child policy, which was introduced in 1979 to slow population growth.
BBC headline:
China: The men who are single and the women who don't want kids
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Karnal
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #98 - Mar 27th, 2022 at 1:11am
 
Frank wrote on Mar 26th, 2022 at 8:50pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 26th, 2022 at 4:13pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 24th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 9:37pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:
China is fccd, its days in the sun  are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.
 

China is debating MMT ... as is the West; watch out if  the PBofC  finally wakes up to the power at its fingertips...(it's all about resources, not money).

China, Russia are fccd. Nobody will stand for moronic dictators like them any more. Treating thugs nicely is over.

China's free ride is over.




Oh-er, China's poised to become the number one economy, old boy. Over?

China is about to begin. No country can isolate China as they've done with Russia. It's too important to global supply chains.

Even a bot can see this, dear. You?


Japan was poised to be the number one economy in the 1990s.

China is being detached from the West strategically. Dependence on China is scaled back. Trust in China is SEVERELY scaled back. It's support for Russia will only accelerate all that.

China will have to make its own people richer and rely less on exporting to the West under false promises it made when it was allowed into the WTO. And when the Chinese are richer they will boot the CCP.
There is no long term future for communist dictatorships just as there isn't for fascist ones.



Japan was never poised for long, old boy. It doesn't have the population.

If you're making the claim that China will NOT overtake America's GDP in the next decade, you're perhaps the only person in the world to do so.

But that's okay. China WILL become number one, as every schoolboy knows. Year 9 maths, innit.

China has proven that there is indeed a future for communist dictatorships whether we like this or not.

So unfair, no?



China is poorer PER CAPITA than Costa Rica or Botswana.

75      Azerbaijan      $17,450      $4,139      102%
76      Costa Rica      $17,110      $11,573      100%
77      Botswana      $17,024      $7,894      100%
78      Iraq      $16,935      $5,114      99%
79      China      $16,842      $8,612      98%
80      Maldives      $16,688      $9,802      98%
81      Dominican Republic      $16,064      $7,223      94%
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/

The Chinese will get old, not rich.

Also, it will be first gay military power since Sparta: there is a severe gender imbalance in the country - last year, there were 34.9 million more males than females. This is a hangover of the country's strict one-child policy, which was introduced in 1979 to slow population growth.
BBC headline:
China: The men who are single and the women who don't want kids


Too true, dear boy. Wake me up when Botswana breed a billion people and corner global manufacturing, okay?

Would you like us to freeze your sperm while we still can?

Oh, sorry, you can't sign consent. You're dead.

Silly old us, no?
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Frank
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #99 - Mar 27th, 2022 at 6:04am
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 27th, 2022 at 1:11am:
Frank wrote on Mar 26th, 2022 at 8:50pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 26th, 2022 at 4:13pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 24th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 9:37pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:59pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:
China is fccd, its days in the sun  are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.
 

China is debating MMT ... as is the West; watch out if  the PBofC  finally wakes up to the power at its fingertips...(it's all about resources, not money).

China, Russia are fccd. Nobody will stand for moronic dictators like them any more. Treating thugs nicely is over.

China's free ride is over.




Oh-er, China's poised to become the number one economy, old boy. Over?

China is about to begin. No country can isolate China as they've done with Russia. It's too important to global supply chains.

Even a bot can see this, dear. You?


Japan was poised to be the number one economy in the 1990s.

China is being detached from the West strategically. Dependence on China is scaled back. Trust in China is SEVERELY scaled back. It's support for Russia will only accelerate all that.

China will have to make its own people richer and rely less on exporting to the West under false promises it made when it was allowed into the WTO. And when the Chinese are richer they will boot the CCP.
There is no long term future for communist dictatorships just as there isn't for fascist ones.



Japan was never poised for long, old boy. It doesn't have the population.

If you're making the claim that China will NOT overtake America's GDP in the next decade, you're perhaps the only person in the world to do so.

But that's okay. China WILL become number one, as every schoolboy knows. Year 9 maths, innit.

China has proven that there is indeed a future for communist dictatorships whether we like this or not.

So unfair, no?



China is poorer PER CAPITA than Costa Rica or Botswana.

75      Azerbaijan      $17,450      $4,139      102%
76      Costa Rica      $17,110      $11,573      100%
77      Botswana      $17,024      $7,894      100%
78      Iraq      $16,935      $5,114      99%
79      China      $16,842      $8,612      98%
80      Maldives      $16,688      $9,802      98%
81      Dominican Republic      $16,064      $7,223      94%
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/

The Chinese will get old, not rich.

Also, it will be first gay military power since Sparta: there is a severe gender imbalance in the country - last year, there were 34.9 million more males than females. This is a hangover of the country's strict one-child policy, which was introduced in 1979 to slow population growth.
BBC headline:
China: The men who are single and the women who don't want kids


Too true, dear boy. Wake me up when Botswana breed a billion people and corner global manufacturing, okay?

Would you like us to freeze your sperm while we still can?

Oh, sorry, you can't sign consent. You're dead.

Silly old us, no?



That "cornering" by China was, in reality, a Western transfer of manufacturing which is now being walked back slowly and steadily.


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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #100 - Mar 27th, 2022 at 1:28pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2022 at 3:13pm:
[quote author=Frank link=1644481191/93#93 date=1648108016]

Japan was poised to be the number one economy in the 1990s.

Yes, and what happened? Some say external forces as well as internal mistakes prevented Japan from overtaking the US.  But in any case Japan is only 100 million people.

Quote:
China is being detached from the West strategically. Dependence on China is scaled back. Trust in China is SEVERELY scaled back. It's support for Russia will only accelerate all that.


Certainly the US - desperate to maintain global hegemony - is spreading the "China threat" theory....

Quote:
China will have to make its own people richer and rely less on exporting to the West under false promises it made when it was allowed into the WTO.


False promises? [note: the WTO itself has been incapacitated by Trump who refused to allow timely elections in the WTO bureaucracy).

Quote:
And when the Chinese are richer they will boot the CCP.


How much richer? When China is the double the US economy? Why would they boot the CCP?

Quote:
There is no long term future for communist dictatorships just as there isn't for fascist ones.


Correct; but a consensus meritocracy is neither of those.








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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #101 - Mar 27th, 2022 at 2:04pm
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 26th, 2022 at 4:39pm:
Actually, Great, until you came here I questioned the China "threat" theory myself. Alas, you've made China's ambitions all too clear.


That only proves your blind 'sovereign individual rights' ideology renders you incapable of correctly reading a sentence.   

Quote:
You and Athos have both expressed your desire for Chinese military domination. You both expect China to assert itself upon the rest of us at some point.


No I expect the Chinese economy will be double the US before mid-century.  China COULD dominate the world militarily, but I expect China has no interest in US-style  global hegemony...and  international law would save China from an insane nuclear arms race.

Quote:
You've also made it clear that you have a beef with countries whose citizens vote.


I have a beef with the assumption that 'the right to rule' (an absurd proposition in itself, since rights don't exist, only Constitutional Law exists) can only be determined by ONE method.

Quote:
I would have thought there'd be more subtlety in our discussions here, but no.


I would have thought distinguishing between rule by elected adversarial  parties, and consensus meritocracies,  was subtle enough, 

Quote:
You genuinely see the world in terms of vetocracies and autocraticies - hence your support for Russia.


No I don't support Russia, whose democracy-autocracy is a failure.  I support China whose benevolent authority-meritocracy is producing remarkable outcomes for the people. (Russia's GDP has been going backwards since the GFC, China's GDP  has doubled).

Quote:
Until you confirmed this view in your own posts, I never would have seen this. Without you, I'd be hosing down talk of  Chinese military expansion and domination. Unfortunately, you've confirmed it.


Explained above; you assumed I am a member of the CCP, which has distorted your thinking on the debate re China versus the West.   

Quote:
We don't have genuine democracy in Australia, but Australians do hold the ideal of democracy to be self evident, just from different angles. You don't value it at all.


I despise the chronic, evasive and generational poverty entrenched in the neoliberal democracies.

[Actually, if Philip Lowe would utilize the currency-issuing capacity of the Oz federal government to eliminate poverty, you might win me over, because in that case elections would be a contest between differing views on how to best mobilize the nation's resources, rather than getting bogged down in useless disputes over money, debt and deficits].

Quote:
More, you're quite happy to support autocracies just for being autocratic, as you do with Putin, who has no socialist sympathies whatsoever.


Well at least these debates do allow for clarification of one's views, as outlined above.

Quote:
You're quite comfortable for your party to ally with dictators in the struggle against Western liberal democracy.


Xi is not a dictator, and Xi is willing to let you have your liberal democracies. It's the US that can't stomach the idea of China replacing US global hegemony.   

Quote:
Therein lies a great divide, dear.


No, the divide is between

1. government based on delusional 'sovereign individual rights', and 'benevolent authority'.

2. The unyielding grip of private financiers on the ability to create money, and banning currency-issuing governments the same ability/privilege.   
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #102 - Mar 27th, 2022 at 2:08pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 2:08pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 5:04pm:
Can you explain how, if poverty is entrenched in the west, but not in China, our unemployed get paid more than twice as much as the median Chinese wage?


Western countries were already wealthy when the USSR collapsed, yet poverty was and is entrenched.

Whereas 90% of Chinese were living in absolute poverty at that time;  and now 400 million Chinese are in the middle class, and absolute poverty has been eradicated. It's recognized the world over as an "economic miracle'.   

Quote:
And most western countries have more equal distribution of wealth than China?


Yet the lowest decile in China has advanced in the last 30 years more than the lowest decile in the US, over the same time. 

Quote:
Whose definition is this?


The neoliberal definition: NAIRU = non-accelerating inflation rate of unemployment.

It's false neoliberal narrative. Inflation need not be contained by unemployment.


You are still missing the point. How can poverty have been erased in China, but remain entrenched in the west, if we are wealthier on average than the Chinese (by a huge margin) and have a more equal distribution of wealth? Do you realise that you make no sense?

Yes we know the CCP literally starved millions of Chinese to death not long ago, but you are not comparing China today with China in the past. You are comparing China with the west. Chinese people are not richer than westerners by virtue of being richer than their parents.
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #103 - Mar 27th, 2022 at 2:09pm
 
China invaded two countries, China is mistreating its muslim subjects, china laid claim to and fortified islands thousands of kilometres from its coastline.

China too wants to build an ethnically cleansed empire.
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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #104 - Mar 27th, 2022 at 2:12pm
 
Quote:
China has proven that there is indeed a future for communist dictatorships whether we like this or not.


Sure. But only the capitalist ones.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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