Australian Politics Forum - CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west

thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #105 - Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:14pm

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 2:08pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1644481191/88#88 date=1647835731]

You are still missing the point. How can poverty have been erased in China, but remain entrenched in the west, if we are wealthier on average than the Chinese (by a huge margin) and have a more equal distribution of wealth? Do you realise that you make no sense?

I explained it before, but you apparently missed it (at best, could be other reasons), so I'll take it step by step this time:

1. c. 1 billion people (ie c.99% of the entire population) living in absolute poverty in 1990 in China.

2. c. 10% of the entire population living in relative poverty** in the US and OZ, in 1990. (**relative poverty takes account of different costs of living in different nations).

3. Fast forward 30 years:
In China, absolute poverty eradicated, and 50-60% living in relative poverty; with a middle class of 400 million people, and expanding fast.

4. In the US and Oz, not much change from 1990. ie no improvement in the relative poverty figures; and indeed the middle class is being squeezed eg in the US, half the population are now living pay check to pay check whereas 30 years ago the the middle class was a large majority of the population.

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Yes we know the CCP literally starved millions of Chinese to death not long ago,

60 years ago in fact....

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but you are not comparing China today with China in the past.

Of course not, rapid increases in living standards in China only began after the Deng opening up of the economy, about 3 decades ago.

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Of course not, now thtYou are comparing China with the west. Chinese people are not richer than westerners by virtue of being richer than their parents.

I am comparing Chinese rates of poverty eradication compared with the West's rates of poverty eradication, highlighted above.

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freediver

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #106 - Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:22pm

So you actually think that poverty does not exist in China, but is entrenched in the west, despite the west being far richer overall, with more equal wealth distribution, and our unemployed people getting paid more than twice as much as the median Chinese wage?

And you think this is true because the CCP does not kill it's own citizens on the same scale it used to?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #107 - Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:24pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 2:09pm:

China invaded two countries,

No it didn't, it restored sovereignty established during the Qing dynasty.

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China is mistreating its muslim subjects,

No, it is dealing with separatist Muslim terrorists in Xinjiang. Non-fundamentalist Muslims are fine in China.

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china laid claim to and fortified islands thousands of kilometres from its coastline

.

That's because the US has military bases on Okinawa and Guam, which are much closer to China than the US.

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China too wants to build an ethnically cleansed empire.

Nonsense. China celebrates its multi-ethnicity, in the various autonomous regions of China.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #108 - Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:32pm

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:22pm:

So you actually think that poverty does not exist in China, but is entrenched in the west, despite the west being far richer overall, with more equal wealth distribution, and our unemployed people getting paid more than twice as much as the median Chinese wage?

Now you have confirmed you are not intelligent enough to understand absolute and relative poverty in different nations, and the rate of change in these parameters, in different nations, as explained in post #105.

By the way, inequality is more extreme in the US than China.

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And you think this is true because the CCP does not kill it's own citizens on the same scale it used to?

No that's not what I think.

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freediver

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #109 - Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:39pm

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By the way, inequality is more extreme in the US than China.

The US is not the west. All western countries are richer than China, by a huge margin. Nearly all of them also have far more equal wealth distribution. The US is one of the few exceptions.

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Now you have confirmed you are not intelligent enough to understand absolute and relative poverty in different nations, and the rate of change in these parameters, in different nations.

I understand you are comparing the west and China by applying completely different standards to each, and by comparing China to China.

By your logic, a country where most people live off 10 grains of rice a day that manages to increase that number to 20 is doing better than Australia, because the rate of increase matters more than whether you actually live in poverty. Improving living standards is pretty easy when your predecessors were literally starving millions Chinese people to death, but I cannot see why you think all those corpses make China compare favourably to the west, when it is still so far behind.

How can poverty be entrenched in Australia but not China, when our unemployed get paid more than twice the median Chinese wage?

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Frank

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #110 - Mar 27^th, 2022 at 5:54pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:24pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 2:09pm:

China invaded two countries,

No it didn't, it restored sovereignty established during the Qing dynasty.

The Qing were the Manchus - an ethnic minority to the sea of Han Chinese.

Point?

Imperial, not 'Han = Chinese'. China is an empire, not a country, Currently ruled by the Maoist CCP Dynasty.

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Frank

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #111 - Mar 28^th, 2022 at 9:41am

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 9:26pm:

China is fccd, its days in the sun are over. An international pariah for the next few decades.

Australian universities have been urged to find new international student markets and diversify away from China, after a damning parliamentary report found Beijing was “by far the largest culprit of foreign interference” on local campuses.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/universities-warned-on-student-...

China has been lying and cheating for decades, in every field of interaction with the West. This is now recognised and is being countered. The tenor of the relationship has radically altered in the last few years.
Hong Kong, South China Sea bullying and militarisation, Covid lies and bullying, now support for Russia and foothold in the Solomons, foreign interference in politics, education, industrial espionage across the Western world etc, etc.

China has turned itself into the Soviet Union of our times, as the principal adversary of the West.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #112 - Mar 28^th, 2022 at 11:41am

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

How can poverty be entrenched in Australia but not China, when our unemployed get paid more than twice the median Chinese wage?

Because as I explained, poverty in Australia, as defined by Henderson for example, has remained entrenched and unchanging over the last 3 decades, at about 10% of the population.

"The poverty lines are based on a benchmark income of $62.70 per week for the December quarter 1973 established by the Henderson poverty inquiry. The benchmark income was the disposable income required to support the basic needs of a family of two adults and two dependent children".

Whereas absolute poverty in China has been 100% eradicated, and relative poverty as measured by comparative standards to the Henderson inquiry has reduced by 50%, which represents an advance in poverty eradication over the West.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #113 - Mar 28^th, 2022 at 11:56am

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2022 at 9:41am:

Australian universities have been urged to find new international student markets and diversify away from China, after a damning parliamentary report found Beijing was “by far the largest culprit of foreign interference” on local campuses.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/universities-warned-on-student-...

China has been lying and cheating for decades, in every field of interaction with the West.

Funny that no-one cared, when China was a minnow.

Anyway it would be smart for Oz to work out out to fund its own universities.

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This is now recognised and is being countered. The tenor of the relationship has radically altered in the last few years.

Only because China's success has it on course to overtaking the US within a decade.

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Hong Kong, South China Sea bullying and militarisation,

HK is part of China, SCS defence is required to counter US militarization in Guam and Okinawa and Taiwan.

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Covid lies and bullying,

Started in Wuhan wet market, what lies? And as for "bullying", Oz initiated the banning of China's first world-leading IT company. Talk about bullying.

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now support for Russia

Xi and Putin signed a trade (not military) agreement.

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and foothold in the Solomons,

Oz failed to assist building of sufficient security forces in the Solomons

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in foreign interference in politics, education, industrial espionage across the Western world etc, etc.

No, that's only your paranoid, delusional 'sovereign individuals rights' ideology talking.

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China has turned itself into the Soviet Union of our times, as the principal adversary of the West.

Certainly the world needs an alternative to the disaster of government based on delusional 'sovereign individual rights' ideology.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #114 - Mar 28^th, 2022 at 12:11pm

Frank wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 5:54pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:24pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 2:09pm:

China invaded two countries,

No it didn't, it restored sovereignty established during the Qing dynasty.

The Qing were the Manchus - an ethnic minority to the sea of Han Chinese.

Point?

That China lost sovereignty over Tibet and Xinjiang (and HK and Taiwan) during the century of humiliation. The CCP reasserts that sovereignty.

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Imperial, not 'Han = Chinese'. China is an empire, not a country, Currently ruled by the Maoist CCP Dynasty.

Just as the US is an empire;

"A border skirmish along the Rio Grande started off the fighting and was followed by a series of U.S. victories. When the dust cleared, Mexico had lost about one-third of its territory, including nearly all of present-day California, Utah, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico".

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freediver

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #115 - Mar 28^th, 2022 at 7:23pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2022 at 11:41am:

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

How can poverty be entrenched in Australia but not China, when our unemployed get paid more than twice the median Chinese wage?

Because as I explained, poverty in Australia, as defined by Henderson for example, has remained entrenched and unchanging over the last 3 decades, at about 10% of the population.

"The poverty lines are based on a benchmark income of $62.70 per week for the December quarter 1973 established by the Henderson poverty inquiry. The benchmark income was the disposable income required to support the basic needs of a family of two adults and two dependent children".

Whereas absolute poverty in China has been 100% eradicated, and relative poverty as measured by comparative standards to the Henderson inquiry has reduced by 50%, which represents an advance in poverty eradication over the West.

You are so full of crap your eyes are brown.

https://melbourneinstitute.unimelb.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/3526877/Po
verty-Lines-Australia-June-2020.pdf

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Updating poverty lines according to changes in per capita household disposable income means that the poverty lines are relative measures of poverty. As real incomes in the community rise, so too will the poverty lines.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2022 at 7:32pm by freediver »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #116 - Mar 29^th, 2022 at 11:51am

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2022 at 7:23pm:

"Updating poverty lines according to changes in per capita household disposable income means that the poverty lines are relative measures of poverty. As real incomes in the community rise, so too will the poverty lines".

Exactly, same as in China, where the reductions in poverty and relative poverty are happening at a faster rate than in Oz.

Meanwhile, from prof. John Buchanan on radio today: Living standards in Oz will fall in coming years, because increasing casualization and underemployment of the workforce mean wages growth will continue to lag inflation in Oz's predominantly resourced-based economy.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49077 At my desk.	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #117 - Mar 29^th, 2022 at 8:06pm You lied. I said you are full of crap. And you took that to mean we agree? Have you ever been outside of China?
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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6402 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #118 - Mar 30^th, 2022 at 6:03pm freediver wrote on Mar 29^th, 2022 at 8:06pm: You lied. I said you are full of crap. And you took that to mean we agree? Have you ever been outside of China? Please gentlemen consider the facts. Thank you 15 Facts About The Financial Condition Of American Families That Will Blow Your Mind
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athos

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #119 - Mar 30^th, 2022 at 6:09pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2022 at 11:51am:

freediver wrote on Mar 28^th, 2022 at 7:23pm:

"Updating poverty lines according to changes in per capita household disposable income means that the poverty lines are relative measures of poverty. As real incomes in the community rise, so too will the poverty lines".

Exactly, same as in China, where the reductions in poverty and relative poverty are happening at a faster rate than in Oz.

Meanwhile, from prof. John Buchanan on radio today: Living standards in Oz will fall in coming years, because increasing casualization and underemployment of the workforce mean wages growth will continue to lag inflation in Oz's predominantly resourced-based economy.

Australia encourages urgent de-Anglonization (de-Pomization) and denazification, otherwise this British colony will face major economic and political problems.

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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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