Australian Politics Forum - CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west

freediver

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #150 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 7:49pm

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The topic is relative poverty

Ok. Tell us what that is. Don't lie this time.

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whereas relative poverty is decreasing in China

You are lying.

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Wrong. China has lifted the living standards of the lowest decile (a huge number of people) in the last 3 decades

You mean the CCP has ceased starving them to death? That is not the same thing as reducing inequality.

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Rate of increase in per capita wealth affects both wealth and inequality.

Tell me, what is the difference between tripling you GDP, and living off 30 grains of rice per day instead of 10?

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freediver

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #151 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 7:53pm

Since Covid, inequality in China is even worse than the US:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/how-much-support-does-the-chinese-communist-party-really-have/

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Income inequality in China has gotten worse thanks to a lopsided recovery from the COVID-19 crisis that has mainly benefitted the wealthy and jeopardized the household consumption of the less well-off. Last year, China’s richest 20 percent had an average disposable income of over 80,000 yuan ($12,000), 10.2 times that of the poorest one-fifth. That surpassed the United States, where the multiple was about 8.4, according to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development. As one study put it, “the pandemic has exacerbated [China’s] preexisting inequalities.”

This one is a bit of a laugh:

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a barrage of propaganda from China’s press constantly reinforces the idea that life in China is now better than it is in the rest of the world

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #152 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 8:03pm Freediver ? https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1649151909
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #153 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 1:21am

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 7:49pm:

Quote:

The topic is relative poverty

Ok. Tell us what that is. Don't lie this time.

Quote:

whereas relative poverty is decreasing in China

You are lying.

Quote:

Wrong. China has lifted the living standards of the lowest decile (a huge number of people) in the last 3 decades

You mean the CCP has ceased starving them to death? That is not the same thing as reducing inequality.

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Rate of increase in per capita wealth affects both wealth and inequality.

Tell me, what is the difference between tripling you GDP, and living off 30 grains of rice per day instead of 10?

Ah - so it's RELATIVE poverty... if I can find 300 grains of rice for my family instead of 150, I am not impoverished?

Let's look at this:-

" China Monthly Earnings stood at 1,225 USD in Dec 2020, compared with the previous figure of 1,071 USD in Dec 2019
China Monthly Earnings data is updated quarterly, available from Mar 2000 to Dec 2020, with an average number of 316 USD
The data reached the an all-time high of 1,225 USD in Dec 2020 and a record low of 83 USD in Jun 2000

CEIC calculates Monthly Earnings from quarterly Earnings divided by 3 and converts it into USD. The National Bureau of Statistics provides year-to-date Average Wage in local currency. Federal Reserve Board average market exchange rate is used for currency conversions. Monthly Earnings cover urban population only."

Now, lessee.... last time I looked into this - average annual earnings in China were $7k or so - while car workers made $57k .... so lessee.... so $1225 a month in China in US dollars = $14,700 US.

Now that may not mean a whole lot out here..... but when the LOWEST figure was 83 USD per month = 996 USD a month in urban areas - it seems to me there are one hell of a lot of people in non-urban areas with no industry who are on a hell of a lot less.....

I'm just guessing on figures here.... but how do those people compete for basic foodstuffs and such?

I thought this was the controlled enterprise paradise.... seems that is not the case..... I've bought nice artworks online from China for a few cents..... I wonder how much the actual producer of that work got...... I felt so guilty knowing that the worker who produced it on piece work would receive nothing - I will not do it again.

Feeling like a vulture is not my strong suit....

How do YOU feel about the piece workers who are paid on the sale price of their product - say less than a dollar total for producing a nice metal worked dragon or similar??

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #154 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 1:31am

Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 8:03pm:

Freediver ?

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1649151909

Seriously - this is getting out of control.... I don't give a flying F for who is what or who has history - let's just stick to the issues raised. Personal vendettas are verboten.

If you like, we'll stage a boxing match outside the pub on Saturday afternoon - I'll be the bookie....

I try, Lord - how I try....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #155 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 11:24am

athos wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 2:55pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2022 at 7:20pm:

Athos why do you think the Chinese people let the CCP starve them to death with incompetence and inequality?

Freed something like that has never happened. It amazes me how gullible you are and take for granted everything that comes from the fake news media.
Don't trust everyone.

[]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC5P6I3XL4I[]

I've seen maps of the routes these white monkeys take on the 'free walks' around certain Chinese cities.

They are guided around in circles where the city is designed to look modern. One street or more either side and you'd see the real China.

None of these white monkeys ever film without oversight from CCP police or security bureau officials.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #156 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 12:50pm

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 7:49pm:

Quote:

The topic is relative poverty

Ok. Tell us what that is. Don't lie this time.

I already explained that China subsidizes living expenses, which you claim is the same as charity.

And you talk about "lying".....

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You mean the CCP has ceased starving them to death?

Yes.

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That is not the same thing as reducing inequality.

Correct, but it is reducing relative poverty ...unlike in Oz where charities are working overtime...and failing.

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Tell me, what is the difference between tripling you GDP, and living off 30 grains of rice per day instead of 10?

Tripling in terms of per capita GDP, in comparison to OZ, 1990 - 2020. (China has increased per capit GDP 10 times, Oz times 3 in the same period.
And as for grain output, China is now self-sufficient, able to feed 1.4 billion people.

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freediver

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #157 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 1:32pm

Relative poverty is not decreasing in China, it is increasing.

TGD, are you capable of giving a straight answer?

What do you think relative poverty is?

Can you acknowledge that inequality is higher in China than in Australia, and most other western countries? If not, what do you think inequality is?

What is the difference between increasing your per capita GDP by a factor of 3, and going from 10 to 30 grains of rice to eat per day?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #158 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 1:38pm

freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 1:32pm:

Can you acknowledge that inequality is higher in China than in Australia, and most other western countries? If not, what do you think inequality is?

Are you telling me that you, as an Australian, have never sent your kids out to catch rats from an open sewer to stir fry into noodles?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #159 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 2:57pm

freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 1:32pm:

Relative poverty is not decreasing in China, it is increasing.

Same as in Oz, whose government relies on charity to deal with it; whereas China reduces relative poverty via subsidization.

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TGD, are you capable of giving a straight answer?

I just did. Close all those 'charities' in Oz , and watch what happens .

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What do you think relative poverty is?

Addressed above.

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Can you acknowledge that inequality is higher in China than in Australia,

Yes, though trending in the right direction in China with Xi's "common prosperity", unlike Oz which relies on charity to maintain social stability.

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and most other western countries? If not, what do you think inequality is?

Interestingly the wealthiest nation in the world with per capita gdp 5 times as high as China, is more unequal than China...., not a good look in 'the beacon of democracy' ....

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What is the difference between increasing your per capita GDP by a factor of 3, and going from 10 to 30 grains of rice to eat per day?

Today everyone in China has sufficient to eat, unlike Oz and the US where people rely on charities and food stamps respectively.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #160 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:00pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 2:57pm:

Today everyone in China has sufficient to eat, unlike Oz and the US where people rely on charities and food stamps respectively.

Do you email them all who have a computer; call them all who only have a phone; or use carrier pigeon to the vast majority outside Tier 1 and 2 cities?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #161 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:21pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:00pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 2:57pm:

Today everyone in China has sufficient to eat, unlike Oz and the US where people rely on charities and food stamps respectively.

Do you email them all who have a computer; call them all who only have a phone; or use carrier pigeon to the vast majority outside Tier 1 and 2 cities?

There is now no shortage of food in China, rural or urban.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/fes3.48#:~:text=%20Food%20secur...

"The foundation of the republic in 1949 and the economic reform in late 1980s have been two most phenomenal events in China's agricultural history. Economic reform commenced with agrarian reform, and the introduction of the “Household Responsibility System” (家庭聯產承包責任制: Jiā tíng lián chăn chéng bāo zé rèn zhì) has brought dramatic improvements in agricultural production and productivity. Since then China has been able to grow most of the food it needs and has become a number one producer and exporter of many agricultural products.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #162 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:28pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:21pm:

Since then China has been able to grow most of the food it needs and has become a number one producer and exporter of many agricultural products.

That's what they said of Mao, when he wasn't saying it himself, as he was exporting all that wheat to Russia while the people starved to death.

People think Mao died in 1976.

But he breaks out of his mausoleum at night and sets the agenda for the next day.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #163 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 4:29pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:28pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:21pm:

Since then China has been able to grow most of the food it needs and has become a number one producer and exporter of many agricultural products.

That's what they said of Mao, when he wasn't saying it himself, as he was exporting all that wheat to Russia while the people starved to death.

People think Mao died in 1976.

But he breaks out of his mausoleum at night and sets the agenda for the next day.

Following a fact with "that's what they said' when such and such...

Oh dear...

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #164 - Apr 6^th, 2022 at 4:40pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 4:29pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:28pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 6^th, 2022 at 3:21pm:

Since then China has been able to grow most of the food it needs and has become a number one producer and exporter of many agricultural products.

That's what they said of Mao, when he wasn't saying it himself, as he was exporting all that wheat to Russia while the people starved to death.

People think Mao died in 1976.

But he breaks out of his mausoleum at night and sets the agenda for the next day.

Following a fact with "that's what they said' when such and such...

Oh dear...

Well, I'm pretty sure you are Chinese, now. Are you living in Australia under our 'hellhole' conditions.

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