Australian Politics Forum - CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west

thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #45 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 4:45pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 4:18pm:

Westerners saw all this 'progress' during the soviet and eastern European era of totalitarian regimes.

Interestingly, while the junk-consumer Western economies were peddling their profit-driven junk, the USSR launched the first satellite, and first manned space flight.

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Stalin was particularly good at playing the tour guide whenever his useful idiots were in town.

Pass.

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When communism collapsed in eastern Europe and Russia, then we got to see what a giant gulag and wasteland communism had really done to the ex-communist lands.

No, that came later under capitalism:

"In the 10 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, there were somewhere between 3 million and 7 million excess deaths."13 Jan 2018

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We're seeing footage of what it's really like now in China, but I'd bet it's 10 times worse in reality.

You'd bet? Of course you have to push your delusional "inalienable rights" delusion , so don't let the facts get in the way - like a middle class of 400 million, set to reach 800 million by 2030.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #46 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 4:51pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 4:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 4:18pm:

Westerners saw all this 'progress' during the soviet and eastern European era of totalitarian regimes.

Interestingly, while the junk-consumer Western economies were peddling their profit-driven junk, the USSR launched the first satellite, and first manned space flight.

Quote:

Stalin was particularly good at playing the tour guide whenever his useful idiots were in town.

Pass.

Quote:

When communism collapsed in eastern Europe and Russia, then we got to see what a giant gulag and wasteland communism had really done to the ex-communist lands.

No, that came later under capitalism:

"In the 10 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, there were somewhere between 3 million and 7 million excess deaths."13 Jan 2018

Quote:

We're seeing footage of what it's really like now in China, but I'd bet it's 10 times worse in reality.

You'd bet? Of course you have to push your delusional "inalienable rights" delusion , so don't let the facts get in the way - like a middle class of 400 million, set to reach 800 million by 2030.

It's nothing to do with "inalienable rights". China is a dump. Groundwater mostly poisoned throughout the country; forced labour camps all over the country (not just in Xinjiang); poverty rife in rural areas.

Just as the Soviet Union was before its collapse.

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freediver

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #47 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 5:00pm

Quote:

How so?

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On a per capita basis, that is a fraction of Americas.

Duh

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Correct.

So, Chinese people earn on average a fraction of what Americans do.

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"World Bank estimates of the Gini coefficient – an economic measure showing the level of income inequality in a country – put China among the most unequal major global economies, behind most of Europe, but ahead of the US. 23 Aug 2021"

So, a Chinese people on on average a fraction of what westerners do, and their wealth distribution is more unequal than that of most western nations. And you think that is something to brag about?

On this list, using the world bank gini index, Australia comes in at 77, ahead of China at 104. The only countries that rank worse than China that I recognise as wealthy are the US and Israel. Other than those two, pretty much every wealthy nation also has a more equal wealth distribution than China (as well as plenty of shitholes).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74683 Gender:	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #48 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 5:01pm freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2022 at 6:19pm: You are seriously deluded. Chinese earn on average 1/6 as much as Americans, and there is a huge wealth disparity in China. There are for more poor people in China. Thats because they don't have UNIONS FD
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freediver

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #49 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 5:05pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 10^th, 2022 at 11:21am:

freediver wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 6:20pm:

Nothing has changed to our understanding since 1960. The CCP has removed it's head from it's arse.

Re the West: true, that's why poverty remains entrenched in the West despite material advancement.

Whereas the CCP has changed as you say, which is why common prosperity is rapidly being attained in China.

TGD, do you think it is a bit hypocritical to insist that western nations have "entrenched poverty" when Chinese people earn a fraction of what we do on average as well has having a far less equal distribution of wealth?

Is this why you were so reluctant to back up what you say with evidence?

In Australia, unemployment benefits come to approximately US$10600 per year. This is more than double the median income in China.

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« Last Edit: Feb 21^st, 2022 at 5:15pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Frank

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #50 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 5:22pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 3:50pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 3:08pm:

China's eerie ghost cities a 'symptom' of the country's economic troubles and housing bubble

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-27/china-ghost-cities-show-growth-driven-by-...

Key points:
There may be as many as 64 million empty apartments in China
Many people buy the properties as an investment with no intention of ever moving in
Author says ghost cities show growth is driven by debt in China

Designed for populations numbering in the hundreds of thousands, the mass construction projects can include towering high-rise condominiums, huge shopping centres, city squares, street lights and replicas of cities in Europe and elsewhere.

Kitch cities by kitch people.

Growth driven by debt? Actually, given increasing employment working from home, those empty units (and cities) will soon be able to be put to good use.

Meanwhile prof. Bill Mitchell alerts us to the nonsense that passes for economic analysis re government debt, in the mainstream press in Oz:

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=49264

There are some Op Eds that are bad, and then others that transcend that standard to become terrible. Such was the case last week when I read this article in the Australian press (Sydney Morning Herald) (February 18, 2022) – "It’s time to return to Costello economics, whoever wins the federal election" – which was written by a former advisor to the last Labor Prime Minister in Australia. The article is dishonest in that it completely ignores the most significant aspects of the period he seeks to eulogise. It is also scary if it reflects current Labor Party thinking, given the author’s previous associations.

You Chinese commies are monomaniacally kitsch people living in a kitsch country with kitsch ideas, kitsch aspirations and hope.
Robots, in short.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6402 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #51 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 5:58pm freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 8:49pm: Athos, can you tell the difference between evidence and propaganda? How do you think Chinese compare to Americans on wealth or wealth inequality? This guy who produced those videos is your Anglo brother from your mama Britain.
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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6402 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #52 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:10pm Australian fast speed train race.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84789 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #53 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:42pm athos wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:10pm: Australian fast speed train race. Ya dork - that's a vintage Garrett complete with red rattlers.... haven't been in service for decades. My grandfather used to drive the Newcastle Flyer ..
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athos

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #54 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:43pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 4:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 1:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 12:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 12:06pm:

athos wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 6:31pm:

Living in China vs Living in America (Part 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsZtuAOMegQ&t=30s

Jason...on seeing the full size child's train in a new shopping centre in China: "..look here, a train...kinda reminds me of a high speed train in America"...

Priceless.

High speed trains that go to nowhere or ghost cities.

Nonsense. China's network attracts millions of passengers, and is profitable.

Quote:

Still, it artificially inflates China's GDP; so, good for propaganda.

Spoken like a true propagandist...

Actually, your junk "consumer" society could learn that investment in infrastructure is more productive than investment in profit-driven junk consumerism.

Westerners saw all this 'progress' during the soviet and eastern European era of totalitarian regimes.

Stalin was particularly good at playing the tour guide whenever his useful idiots were in town.

When communism collapsed in eastern Europe and Russia, then we got to see what a giant gulag and wasteland communism had really done to the ex-communist lands.

We're seeing footage of what it's really like now in China, but I'd bet it's 10 times worse in reality.

Actually Robert Hughes in his book "The Fatal Shore" stated that Australia was established as the most gigantic and inescapable Gulag in the human history much before Stalin's prison camps.

"The brutal transportation of men, women and children out of Georgian Britain into a horrific penal system which was to be the precursor to the Gulag and was the origin of Australia"

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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84789 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #55 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:45pm My grandfather had a Chinese urn! What's a Chinese urn? Oh - about seven grand a year!
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #56 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:46pm

athos wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 4:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 1:58pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 12:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 12:06pm:

athos wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 6:31pm:

Living in China vs Living in America (Part 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsZtuAOMegQ&t=30s

Jason...on seeing the full size child's train in a new shopping centre in China: "..look here, a train...kinda reminds me of a high speed train in America"...

Priceless.

High speed trains that go to nowhere or ghost cities.

Nonsense. China's network attracts millions of passengers, and is profitable.

Quote:

Still, it artificially inflates China's GDP; so, good for propaganda.

Spoken like a true propagandist...

Actually, your junk "consumer" society could learn that investment in infrastructure is more productive than investment in profit-driven junk consumerism.

Westerners saw all this 'progress' during the soviet and eastern European era of totalitarian regimes.

Stalin was particularly good at playing the tour guide whenever his useful idiots were in town.

When communism collapsed in eastern Europe and Russia, then we got to see what a giant gulag and wasteland communism had really done to the ex-communist lands.

We're seeing footage of what it's really like now in China, but I'd bet it's 10 times worse in reality.

Actually Robert Hughes in his book "The Fatal Shore" stated that Australia was established as the most gigantic and inescapable Gulag in the human history much before Stalin's prison camps.

"The brutal transportation of men, women and children out of Georgian Britain into a horrific penal system which was to be the precursor to the Gulag and was the origin of Australia"

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/P/B003ATPQ8E.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SX500_.jpg

Pretty hard to escape when home is six months hard sailing away....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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athos

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #57 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:53pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:42pm:

athos wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 6:10pm:

Australian fast speed train race.

Ya dork - that's a vintage Garrett complete with red rattlers.... haven't been in service for decades. My grandfather used to drive the Newcastle Flyer ..

https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/acrylic-print/10/6.5/h...

Not far from the Australian present railway reality.
Grin

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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49082 At my desk.	Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west Reply #58 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 7:16pm athos wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 5:58pm: freediver wrote on Feb 20^th, 2022 at 8:49pm: Athos, can you tell the difference between evidence and propaganda? This guy who produced those videos is your Anglo brother from your mama Britain. I'll take that as a no.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: CCP stooges: less poverty in China than the west
Reply #59 - Feb 21^st, 2022 at 7:24pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 4:51pm:

It's nothing to do with "inalienable rights".

The whole sovereignty/ 'election by representation' BS is based on that very delusion. If the King is not sovereign, who is? The individual of course....based on "inherent inalienable rights". Delusional.

Quote:

China is a dump. Groundwater mostly poisoned throughout the country; forced labour camps all over the country (not just in Xinjiang); poverty rife in rural areas.

China is lifting 1.4 billion people out of poverty at the fastest rate in history. That's why China poured more cement 2010-2013 than the US in the entire 20th century.

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Just as the Soviet Union was before its collapse

The USSR shrank after the demise of communism. Before that:

The Soviet Union maintained itself as the second largest economy in both nominal and purchasing power parity values for much of the Cold War until 1990, when Japan's economy exceeded $3 trillion in nominal value.[24]

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