Australian Politics Forum - Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)

Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 44693 Gender:	Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Reply #30 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 2:06pm Why does government put taxes on things? To raise money for government to spend. But why bother raising money through taxation when government can just print and spend whaever money it wants? Print some more and give it to people to spend. MMT = Magic Money Tree.
Back to top	Estragon: I can’t go on like this. Vladimir: That’s what you think. IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 103117
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #31 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:16pm

Modern Monetary Theory relies upon the theft of peoples savings
from printing money and causing inflation
in order that Govts. can come up with ways of spending money
which they don't have to have taxation to pay for.

It's a Ponzi scheme that will eventually go bust as
money becomes almost worthless.
Look at the Weimar Republic in Germany and Zimbabwe for proof of that.
In both you needed a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir lastnail

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30067
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #32 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:16pm:

Modern Monetary Theory relies upon the theft of peoples savings
from printing money and causing inflation
in order that Govts. can come up with ways of spending money
which they don't have to have taxation to pay for.

It's a Ponzi scheme that will eventually go bust as
money becomes almost worthless.
Look at the Weimar Republic in Germany and Zimbabwe for proof of that.
In both you needed a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.

It's worse how they replace physical precious metals with paper derivatives and trade them to keep the price artificially low. Even worse is the way our super funds refuse to invest in physical precious metals but will buy shares in precious metals companies along with shares in banks who produce nothing and trade in worthless FIAT currencies. That is who we are forced to invest in, in this country. Little wonder that Russia, China and India etc are going to kick our arse Sad

Back to top

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 103117
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #33 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:25pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:16pm:

Modern Monetary Theory relies upon the theft of peoples savings
from printing money and causing inflation
in order that Govts. can come up with ways of spending money
which they don't have to have taxation to pay for.

It's a Ponzi scheme that will eventually go bust as
money becomes almost worthless.
Look at the Weimar Republic in Germany and Zimbabwe for proof of that.
In both you needed a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.

It's worse how they replace physical precious metals with paper derivatives and trade them to keep the price artificially low. Even worse is the way our super funds refuse to invest in physical precious metals but will buy shares in precious metals companies along with shares in banks who produce nothing and trade in worthless FIAT currencies. That is who we are forced to invest in, in this country Sad

That's right Nail,
I asked Aussie Super about 20 years ago -
if they could put all my Super into physical gold and they
had no option to do that and none foreseeable in the future.
They insisted that it was either in the bank or on shares.
It has cost me a lot of money from their bad policies.

I'm convinced they didn't like it because they
couldn't see a way of getting annual fees from me.
They wanted their slice of the action so
it wasn't about my financial future but their own greed.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir lastnail

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30067
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #34 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:32pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:25pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:16pm:

Modern Monetary Theory relies upon the theft of peoples savings
from printing money and causing inflation
in order that Govts. can come up with ways of spending money
which they don't have to have taxation to pay for.

It's a Ponzi scheme that will eventually go bust as
money becomes almost worthless.
Look at the Weimar Republic in Germany and Zimbabwe for proof of that.
In both you needed a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.

It's worse how they replace physical precious metals with paper derivatives and trade them to keep the price artificially low. Even worse is the way our super funds refuse to invest in physical precious metals but will buy shares in precious metals companies along with shares in banks who produce nothing and trade in worthless FIAT currencies. That is who we are forced to invest in, in this country Sad

That's right Nail,
I asked Aussie Super about 20 years ago -
if they could put all my Super into physical gold and they
had no option to do that and none foreseeable in the future.
They insisted that it was either in the bank or on shares.
It has cost me a lot of money from their bad policies.

I'm convinced they didn't like it because they
couldn't see a way of getting annual fees from me.
They wanted their slice of the action so
it wasn't about my financial future but their own greed.

No they see Gold and Silver as a direct competitor to their worthless FIAT currency so they make the lame excuse that physical metals are not a growth vehicle but we know different. Little wonder China, Russia and India are going to kick our arses with their gold back currencies Sad

Back to top

goldandsilver.jpg (31 KB | 35 )

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 103117
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #35 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:32pm:

No they see Gold and Silver as a direct competitor to their worthless FIAT currency so they make the lame excuse that physical metals are not a growth vehicle but we know different. Little wonder China, Russia and India are going to kick our arses with their gold back currencies Sad

Thanks Nail,
your chart shows it well.
Aussie Super cost us all a lot of money with their halfwit advice.
A monkey could have made better decisions.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir lastnail

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30067
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #36 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:41pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:32pm:

No they see Gold and Silver as a direct competitor to their worthless FIAT currency so they make the lame excuse that physical metals are not a growth vehicle but we know different. Little wonder China, Russia and India are going to kick our arses with their gold back currencies Sad

Thanks Nail,
your chart shows it well.
Aussie Super cost us all a lot of money with their halfwit advice.
A monkey could have made better decisions.

Instead they take money from small business contributions to super and force small business to indirectly support huge business who contribute nothing to these small businesses. What a scam Sad

Back to top

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 103117
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #37 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:43pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:41pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:32pm:

No they see Gold and Silver as a direct competitor to their worthless FIAT currency so they make the lame excuse that physical metals are not a growth vehicle but we know different. Little wonder China, Russia and India are going to kick our arses with their gold back currencies Sad

Thanks Nail,
your chart shows it well.
Aussie Super cost us all a lot of money with their halfwit advice.
A monkey could have made better decisions.

Instead they take money from small business contributions to super and force small business to indirectly support huge business who contribute nothing to these small businesses. What a scam Sad

Hi Nail,
it shows you what happens when other people
get their hands on your money.
They lose it and give plenty to themselves.
It's legal theft.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir lastnail

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30067
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #38 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:45pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:43pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:41pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:36pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:32pm:

No they see Gold and Silver as a direct competitor to their worthless FIAT currency so they make the lame excuse that physical metals are not a growth vehicle but we know different. Little wonder China, Russia and India are going to kick our arses with their gold back currencies Sad

Thanks Nail,
your chart shows it well.
Aussie Super cost us all a lot of money with their halfwit advice.
A monkey could have made better decisions.

Instead they take money from small business contributions to super and force small business to indirectly support huge business who contribute nothing to these small businesses. What a scam Sad

Hi Nail,
it shows you what happens when other people
get their hands on your money.
They lose it and give plenty to themselves.
It's legal theft.

yes they forcibly take money from small aussie businesses and hand it over to the likes of harvey norman and jbhifi by buying shares in their companies who just buy container loads of junk from china Sad

Back to top

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Reply #39 - Mar 31^st, 2022 at 6:10pm TGD believes that the government can print food to provide a wage guarantee, food, housing, and a bunch of other stuff, without causing inflation. And a lot of other things the CCP wants him to believe. He has latched onto MMT in a desperate effort to give credibility to his crazy ideas.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12490
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #40 - Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:12pm

Frank wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 2:06pm:

Why does government put taxes on things?
To raise money for government to spend.

That's the current system foisted onto an unknowing electorate, by greedy private financiers.

Fact: currency-issuing governments don't NEED to tax or borrow in order to spend; the constraint for such governments is available resources, not money.

[url]http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/innocent-frauds/ [/url]

Quote:

But why bother raising money through taxation when government can just print and spend whaever money it wants? Print some more and give it to people to spend.

Addressed above, the limit for government is resources, not money.

Quote:

MMT = Magic Money Tree.

Indeed money is always created out of thin air - it's magic!

....whether created by banksters, or central banks creating "borrowed" money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v14iP_qnlgU

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12490
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #41 - Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:13pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:12pm:

[quote author=Frank link=1645944963/30#30 date=1648699592]Why does government put taxes on things?
To raise money for government to spend.

That's the current system foisted onto an unknowing electorate, by greedy private financiers.

Fact: currency-issuing governments don't NEED to tax or borrow in order to spend; the constraint for such governments is available resources, not money.

http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/innocent-frauds/

Quote:

But why bother raising money through taxation when government can just print and spend whaever money it wants? Print some more and give it to people to spend.

Addressed above, the limit for government is resources, not money.

Quote:

MMT = Magic Money Tree.

Indeed money is always created out of thin air - it's magic!

....whether created by banksters, or central banks creating "borrowed" money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v14iP_qnlgU

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 44693
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #42 - Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:21pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:13pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:12pm:

[quote author=Frank link=1645944963/30#30 date=1648699592]Why does government put taxes on things?
To raise money for government to spend.

That's the current system foisted onto an unknowing electorate, by greedy private financiers.

Fact: currency-issuing governments don't NEED to tax or borrow in order to spend; the constraint for such governments is available resources, not money.

http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/innocent-frauds/

Quote:

But why bother raising money through taxation when government can just print and spend whaever money it wants? Print some more and give it to people to spend.

Addressed above, the limit for government is resources, not money.

Quote:

MMT = Magic Money Tree.

Indeed money is always created out of thin air - it's magic!

....whether created by banksters, or central banks creating "borrowed" money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v14iP_qnlgU

Complete and utter BS.
When you barter you give something in exchange. Money replaces that something by giving it an agreed VALUE. Nothing has no value so money MUST have value, it cannot be thin air.
Don't be an idiot.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12490
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #43 - Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:21pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 3:21pm:

Even worse is the way our super funds refuse to invest in physical precious metals but will buy shares in precious metals companies along with shares in banks who produce nothing and trade in worthless FIAT currencies.

Fiat currencies - unlike Bitcoin - are not worthless because they are backed by the nation's productivity.

The gold standard was abandoned because nations could not hold sufficient gold to enable orderly international trade.

Quote:

That is who we are forced to invest in, in this country. Little wonder that Russia, China and India etc are going to kick our arse Sad

Investment is tricky at any time, you can't blame the fiat currency system for that.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12490
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #44 - Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:34pm

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:13pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 1:12pm:

[quote author=Frank link=1645944963/30#30 date=1648699592]Why does government put taxes on things?
To raise money for government to spend.

That's the current system foisted onto an unknowing electorate, by greedy private financiers.

Fact: currency-issuing governments don't NEED to tax or borrow in order to spend; the constraint for such governments is available resources, not money.

http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/innocent-frauds/

Quote:

But why bother raising money through taxation when government can just print and spend whaever money it wants? Print some more and give it to people to spend.

Addressed above, the limit for government is resources, not money.

Quote:

MMT = Magic Money Tree.

Indeed money is always created out of thin air - it's magic!

....whether created by banksters, or central banks creating "borrowed" money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v14iP_qnlgU

Complete and utter BS.

You didn't read and learn from Mosler's explanation of how fiat currencies work.

Quote:

When you barter you give something in exchange.

But the barter system disappeared centuries ago - except perhaps when nations lack sufficient foreign exchange...

Quote:

Money replaces that something by giving it an agreed VALUE.

"Value" determined in competitive free markets, which often produces results incompatible with 'social' values eg below-poverty wages, unemployment) , leading to what we call 'market failure'. Whereas the 'value' of education and good health is priceless.

Quote:

Nothing has no value so money MUST have value, it cannot be thin air.

The question is: HOW is money created?

Answer: out of thin air.

You walk into a bank seeking a loan. If you are "credit worthy", the bank creates - out of thin air - a deposit in your account (irrespective of the bank's customers' deposits).

Quote:

Don't be an idiot.

It remains to be seen whether I'm an idiot for attempting to educate you.

Back to top

IP Logged