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Dnarever

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #285 - Jun 8^th, 2022 at 2:09pm

freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2022 at 4:12pm:

Quote:

They ran them in the past

Historical accident is not a rational justification.

They mostly got it right in the past, power as example was not an accident and building a national grid was not achievable any other way at the time. Power is a service, it is essential and the government should provide it.

This is the most practical efficient and cost effective way to provide essential services.

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Dnarever

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Re: privatisation
Reply #286 - Jun 8^th, 2022 at 2:15pm

Gnads wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 10:40am:

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

Quote:

How about you explain the massive price increases in electricity & gas?

You could try looking on the front page of the newspaper. It is largely caused by uncertainty surrounding carbon emissions regulations. Under current legislation, it is not (very) financially viable to incest more in renewables. But it also does not make sense to build new coal fired power stations, as they are expected to be phased out before the end of their lifetime, which is very long.

Sounds right - phuqing things over close to home Grin

It is the large corporate energy companies that are cashing in on renewable project investment.

They are not investing in new coal fired generation because banks wont touch it because they gone green woke.

They're all about making money & they will be raking it in from both sides - renewables & what's left of our coal fired generation ... because the price is rising rapidly.

Quote:

The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) recently revealed that the wholesale cost of electricity in the National Electricity Market (NEM) for the first three months of 2022 has increased by 141% compared to the same quarter last year.

Quote:

increased by 141%

My what a lot of uncertainty. They must not be sure about anything.

Goes back to the old saying: When in doubt put the prices up.

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freediver

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Re: privatisation
Reply #287 - Jun 8^th, 2022 at 2:58pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 12:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 12:30pm:

Quote:

Because they are likely to be monopolies, like the Adelaide Electricity Company which Playford nationalized in 1946 because the company was a monopolistic profit-maximising, price gouger.

Why is electricity production likely to be a monopoly?

Because the harnessing of fossil energy - or solar energy - requires $billions - and in the case of renewables - $trillions in investment, creating a natural monopoly (like the NBN and the Adelaide Electricity Company cf a family business building houses or growing food in the market economy ( and even so prices will need to subsidized by government, for low income groups).

Crap. You do not need "$trillions" to invest in renewables. And a billion dollar price tag on a coal fired power station does not make something a natural monopoly. Quite the opposite in fact. If one station costs that much, why is it natural for one company to own them all?

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Gnads

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Re: privatisation
Reply #288 - Jun 8^th, 2022 at 6:44pm

Frank wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 1:10pm:

Transferring a public monopoly to a private monopoly makes no sense.

But transferring a public company sheltered from the need to be efficient to the competitive private sphere where it needs to compete - that makes eminent sense.
The public can still set some controls, such as mandated domestic reserves of gas, or nob-transferability to foreigners or other measures.

As an employee of a govt monopoly for over 35 years & then for a private company for another 11 years when that wasn't allowed to happen anymore after the plagiarised Hilmer Report & the imposition of the ACCC.... I can tell you that is complete BS.

The private company I then worked for & the 3rd party operators are just fly by the seat of their pants cowboys.

And now one of those 3rd party operators nearly has a monopoly on all containerised rail freight on the east coast & across to Perth.

When that happens they charge what they like because the customer doesn't have an option except going by road.

You tell me where the majority of freight in this country should be - road or rail?

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: privatisation Reply #289 - Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:02pm Quote: You tell me where the majority of freight in this country should be - road or rail? Transport is not a religion Gnads.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 57922 Here Gender:	Re: privatisation Reply #290 - Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:08pm freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:02pm: Quote: You tell me where the majority of freight in this country should be - road or rail? Transport is not a religion Gnads. No but one is less damaging to roads and the environment, should be cheaper and a lower risk (safer).
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freediver

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Re: privatisation
Reply #291 - Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:12pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:08pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:02pm:

Quote:

You tell me where the majority of freight in this country should be - road or rail?

Transport is not a religion Gnads.

No but one is less damaging to roads and the environment, should be cheaper and a lower risk (safer).

There are plenty of rail lines being left to rot, by both government and private enterprise. If it was so much cheaper, they would find a way to make it work.

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Gnads

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Re: privatisation
Reply #292 - Jun 9^th, 2022 at 8:49am

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:08pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:02pm:

Quote:

You tell me where the majority of freight in this country should be - road or rail?

Transport is not a religion Gnads.

No but one is less damaging to roads and the environment, should be cheaper and a lower risk (safer).

There are plenty of rail lines being left to rot, by both government and private enterprise. If it was so much cheaper, they would find a way to make it work.

When one train can haul what it takes 50 prime movers & trailers to move......

you do the math clever dick.

And you talk of the benefits of service & efficiencies of private enterprise? Grin

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Frank

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Re: privatisation
Reply #293 - Jun 9^th, 2022 at 9:30am

Gnads wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 1:10pm:

Transferring a public monopoly to a private monopoly makes no sense.

But transferring a public company sheltered from the need to be efficient to the competitive private sphere where it needs to compete - that makes eminent sense.
The public can still set some controls, such as mandated domestic reserves of gas, or nob-transferability to foreigners or other measures.

As an employee of a govt monopoly for over 35 years & then for a private company for another 11 years when that wasn't allowed to happen anymore after the plagiarised Hilmer Report & the imposition of the ACCC.... I can tell you that is complete BS.

The private company I then worked for & the 3rd party operators are just fly by the seat of their pants cowboys.

And now one of those 3rd party operators nearly has a monopoly on all containerised rail freight on the east coast & across to Perth.

When that happens they charge what they like because the customer doesn't have an option except going by road.

You tell me where the majority of freight in this country should be - road or rail?

As I said, private monopoly is no good. Transferring public monopoly to private monopoly or near monopoly makes no sense.

But if there is competition (not cartels) then the cowboys are driven out of business. Government regulation should always facilitate competition ( among other things).
I do agree that privatisation isn't always done well. But can you imagine if telecommunication was still a state monopoly today - one single state phone and internet provider. Yes, sometimes it can be too much but that is still better than a single state monopoly.

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freediver

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Re: privatisation
Reply #294 - Jun 9^th, 2022 at 9:43am

Gnads wrote on Jun 9^th, 2022 at 8:49am:

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:08pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:02pm:

Quote:

You tell me where the majority of freight in this country should be - road or rail?

Transport is not a religion Gnads.

No but one is less damaging to roads and the environment, should be cheaper and a lower risk (safer).

There are plenty of rail lines being left to rot, by both government and private enterprise. If it was so much cheaper, they would find a way to make it work.

When one train can haul what it takes 50 prime movers & trailers to move......

you do the math clever dick.

And you talk of the benefits of service & efficiencies of private enterprise? Grin

If you believe it so much, become a rail mogul and make your millions. But don't expect others to foot the bill for your ideological obsessions.

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Gnads

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Re: privatisation
Reply #295 - Jun 9^th, 2022 at 11:17am

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2022 at 9:43am:

Gnads wrote on Jun 9^th, 2022 at 8:49am:

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:08pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 8:02pm:

Quote:

You tell me where the majority of freight in this country should be - road or rail?

Transport is not a religion Gnads.

No but one is less damaging to roads and the environment, should be cheaper and a lower risk (safer).

There are plenty of rail lines being left to rot, by both government and private enterprise. If it was so much cheaper, they would find a way to make it work.

When one train can haul what it takes 50 prime movers & trailers to move......

you do the math clever dick.

And you talk of the benefits of service & efficiencies of private enterprise? Grin

If you believe it so much, become a rail mogul and make your millions. But don't expect others to foot the bill for your ideological obsessions.

I don't have to become squat ... it's just common sense & I worked both sides of the fence in rail.

As for others footing the bill...... that's exactly what everyday Australians are doing .... footing the bill for ideological obsessions of political parties..... whose ideas, whether on privatisation or renewable energy don't work to anyones benefit except executives & shareholders.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: privatisation Reply #296 - Jun 9^th, 2022 at 11:23am Quote: I don't have to become squat ... it's just common sense What is common sense? Do you have a grand conspiracy to explain all those rail lines being left to rot if using them is such an obvious choice?
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John Smith Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 74107 Gender:	Re: privatisation Reply #297 - Jun 9^th, 2022 at 11:24am freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2022 at 9:43am: If you believe it so much, become a rail mogul and make your millions He can't, he doesn't bribe donate to the right politicians
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: privatisation Reply #298 - Jun 9^th, 2022 at 11:26am John Smith wrote on Jun 9^th, 2022 at 11:24am: freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2022 at 9:43am: If you believe it so much, become a rail mogul and make your millions He can't, he doesn't bribe donate to the right politicians Surely the conspiracy is grander than that.
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