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privatisation (Read 27678 times)
freediver
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Re: privatisation
Reply #375 - Aug 27th, 2022 at 2:04pm
 
Quote:
But now Xi is faced with the downsides of market liberalism (eg real estate bubbles, share market funny-money deals etc etc)


Sounds better than 50 million people starving to death.

But he did recently kill millions of people by incubating a deadly virus, so there's that. Do you think these "market interventions" might distract the Chinese public from the millions of people he helped kill?

Quote:
That practice is confined to poor neoliberal economies


Have the Chinese stopped infanticide? I think the practice was largely curtailed in the west during the Roman era.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: privatisation
Reply #376 - Aug 31st, 2022 at 11:20am
 
Frank wrote on Aug 26th, 2022 at 8:38pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 26th, 2022 at 7:12pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 23rd, 2022 at 6:43pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 23rd, 2022 at 4:34pm:
Because neoliberalism steals money from workers to (over)pay CEOs etc. Neoliberalism is running out of other people’s money.



When did it become 'neo', Juvenile Mong, and what was it like before that? What twiggewed the 'neo'?


'Neo' is a reference to the market liberalism which led up to the Great Depression.  FDR's govt. intervention (to deal with unemployment) upended it, and it was   supplanted by Keynesian "welfare state" economics after WW2.

However, the Arab oil embargo and increasing competition from low wage Asia led to stagflation in the first world in the 70s; and hence was born the erroneous prescription of neo-liberalism (non market-intervention)  trumpeted by Milton Friedman and adopted by Thatcher and Reagan, ie, 'fighting inflation first' rather than aiming for full employment, as in Keynesian economics. 

Quote:
Oh, you don't know? You are just kibitzing shite from the side??  Good boy. Mustafaken and ducky will give you your bananas and the 10 rupees for the bus.


Well Frank , now YOU know, so stop being a ...oh never mind.




So NEO liberalism is what happened before1929 LEADING to the depression. And then came Keynesianism, supplanting it.

But here you are, a 100 years later, STILL banging on as if it was still 1929?

"Refuted above" innit, galah.



OK Frank. answered in #371.

Care to acknowledge?

quick summary:

Liberalism (-1930's and GD) ;  Keynesianism (1946 -1970's) high growth low unemployment until Arab oil emabrgo etc  and  stagflation; neoliberalism (1980s to present)...   increasing share of output/profits goes to capital, while median wages stagnate in real terms.

Enjoy the workers' revolt in NSW today.


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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2022 at 11:32am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Frank
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Re: privatisation
Reply #377 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 2:09pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Aug 27th, 2022 at 1:24pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 27th, 2022 at 11:51am:
Eat the rich!


Suspect they would give you indigestion.

They could make a reasonable dog food ?





To most Africans YOU are the rich, duckwit.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Frank
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Re: privatisation
Reply #378 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 2:27pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 27th, 2022 at 1:14pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 26th, 2022 at 8:38pm:
So NEO liberalism is what happened before 1929


No. You misread my meaning.... so I'll reword it:

(classical) liberalism - ie, market non-intervention -  led to the GD in 1929.


The NEO-liberalism  terminology was adopted to describe the system which supplanted Keynesian economics,   following the stagflation era in the 70's. 

Quote:
But here you are, a 100 years later, STILL banging on as if it was still 1929?
"Refuted above" innit, galah.


Your confusion now cleared up, hopefully.



There has NEVER been 'market non-intervention'.  It's a fantasy, as if your classification of the economic system into neat little ideological categories to suit your silly little 'refuted above' psittacism.

The economic life of a country is not separate from its other aspects, like politics, history, ethos, customs, religion and social norms, foreign relations, even it's art and intellectual life. And no two courtiers travel the same route.


There is one thing  they all share though - no country has an omnicompetent bureaucracy. Not even China. If anything, socialist bureaucracies are the MOST incompetent BECAUSE they ARE expected to be omnicompetent. An excellent illustration of a inverse correlation.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: privatisation
Reply #379 - Sep 2nd, 2022 at 10:29pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 2:27pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 27th, 2022 at 1:14pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 26th, 2022 at 8:38pm:
So NEO liberalism is what happened before 1929


No. You misread my meaning.... so I'll reword it:

(classical) liberalism - ie, market non-intervention -  led to the GD in 1929.


The NEO-liberalism  terminology was adopted to describe the system which supplanted Keynesian economics,   following the stagflation era in the 70's. 

Quote:
But here you are, a 100 years later, STILL banging on as if it was still 1929?
"Refuted above" innit, galah.


Your confusion now cleared up, hopefully.



There has NEVER been 'market non-intervention'.  It's a fantasy, as if your classification of the economic system into neat little ideological categories to suit your silly little 'refuted above' psittacism.


Wrong again, though your typical black and white view of the world makes you difficult to educate (free market conservative ideologues promote MINIMAL intervention).

Liberal Economics in the West more or less developed in a sraight line from Smith in the 18th century up to the GD  in 1929. (Marx's 19th century theories were not realized in the West).

It took FDR's 'New Deal' intervention (resisted by Conservatives), to deal with the unemployment of the GD; Keynes had much to say at this time,  and indeed  successful Keynesian 'welfare state' policies were widely established after WW2.

But giobal geopolitics  in the 70's - Arab oil shock and low-wage competition from Asia - resulted in loss of industry in the 1st world, so Keynesian fiscal spendng seemed no longer to work, as the West faced a truly global economy for the first time. 

Hence the wrong-headed move to NEO-liberalism - a backward step, whose consequences we are all facing now (wage stagnation/cost of living pressures, unaffordable housing and homelessness, persistent long-term unemployment).

Quote:
The economic life of a country is not separate from its other aspects, like politics, history, ethos, customs, religion and social norms, foreign relations, even it's art and intellectual life. And no two courtiers travel the same route.


True, but the West's  reaction to the 70s stagflation as outlined above, is real history which is still playing out today,  under neoliberal dogma (privatization, 'small government' and Friedman's supply-side economics, cf Keynes'  'demand side' theory).

Quote:
There is one thing  they all share though - no country has an omnicompetent bureaucracy. Not even China. If anything, socialist bureaucracies are the MOST incompetent BECAUSE they ARE expected to be omnicompetent. An excellent illustration of a inverse correlation.


Keynes wasn't considered to be 'socialist', though he did prescribe deficit spending to maintain full employment - and Menzies proved to be a very successful facilitator of Keynesian  policy.

[Today, it's absurd that fiat currency-issuing  government should be forced to borrow money from private financiers who "must be repaid" with interest; taxation*** alone should clearly fund government, to deliver full employment and wages growth -  to supplement private sector employment as eequired.

***MMT reverses the function of taxation, but that is another story. Richard Denniss rejects MMT;  he wants  taxation alone to fund  the public services desired by the community. 

But Biden is struggling with that in the US, with Trump's low-tax republicans theatening violence against the Dem government, which  is attempting to improve the incomes and public services  for the poorer half of the community ]   



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Re: privatisation
Reply #380 - Dec 2nd, 2022 at 10:58am
 
From Richard Dennis CEO of the Australia Institute:

Daniel Andrews’s plan to re-establish a publicly owned state electricity commission is not just proof that privatisation has failed, it’s proof that the politics of privatisation have failed.

It is no accident that the Victorian premier is using a brand name from the past for his investment in the energy generation of the future. And it is no surprise that he is focussing on public provision of an essential service during an election campaign. The Australian public never liked privatisation as much as their political class.

Andrews is not alone in seeing the economic and political benefits of nationalising the key infrastructure on which Australia’s economy and community are built. Malcolm Turnbull created Snowy 2.0, Barnaby Joyce is enormously proud of the publicly owned inland rail corporation, and the Queensland government – having failed in prior bids to privatise its electricity generators – recently announced $62bn worth of new public investment in renewable energy via its state-owned electricity companies.

Economic theory provides no clear rules about which assets are best owned by the government and which are best owned by the private sector. The simple fact is that different governments, in different countries, at different points in history, have made quite different decisions about what governments should own, run and sell.

Just as there’s no strong economic case for what assets governments should own, there has never been any strong economic evidence that privatisation delivers benefits to budgets either.

While governments keen to sell the assets built up by their predecessors always focus on the short-term reduction in public debt, they rarely talk about the long-term impact of lost revenue streams in the decades ahead..........

Back before economic rationalism and neoliberalism entered the minds of Australian politicians, government-owned corporations employed tens of thousands of young apprentices each year, most of whom left to work in the private sector when they finished their on-the-job training supported by formal training in publicly run “tech colleges”.

These days most of the public corporations and public tech colleges have been replaced with private companies, but perhaps unsurprisingly, the privatisation of training has not delivered an increase in its quality, but a so-called skills shortage......
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thegreatdivide
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Re: privatisation
Reply #381 - Jul 11th, 2023 at 11:45pm
 
3 decades of privatisation have indeed created this "sh1tshow":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqFPhsO-2W0


...priceless...
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« Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2023 at 11:52pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: privatisation
Reply #382 - Jul 11th, 2023 at 11:51pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Aug 27th, 2022 at 1:24pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 27th, 2022 at 11:51am:
Eat the rich!


Suspect they would give you indigestion.

They could make a reasonable dog food ?


3 decades of privatisation has indeed created this  "sh1tshow":

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqFPhsO-2W0/url]

....priceless!
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Re: privatisation
Reply #383 - Jul 12th, 2023 at 12:27am
 
The major reason governments privatize previously owned businesses is to create more investment sinks to soak up excess liquidity.

The profit from the sale is just a sweetener.

If there were not a constant stream of new businesses being created the property price bubble would be even bigger.

Government businesses that are "privatized" are usually monopolies with captive customers that are then subjected to rising prices every year to keep the new owners happy with growth and dividends in their investments.

Unfortunately, as with power and gas, the government then loses control over the provision of these goods which can then hold the users to ransom because competition cannot immediately be created if the service provision is unsatisfactory. Strategic planning then becomes impossible unless the government provides free money or other benefits to encourage strategic growth to service industry and retail consumers.
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: privatisation
Reply #384 - Jul 12th, 2023 at 10:05am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 2nd, 2022 at 2:09pm:
Dnarever wrote on Aug 27th, 2022 at 1:24pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 27th, 2022 at 11:51am:
Eat the rich!


Suspect they would give you indigestion.

They could make a reasonable dog food ?





To most Africans YOU are the rich, duckwit.



Not likely that I will ever go back to Africa. Besides you should be telling Grap I am not an advocate for self induced indigestion.
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Re: privatisation
Reply #385 - Jul 12th, 2023 at 10:05am
 
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Re: privatisation
Reply #386 - Jul 12th, 2023 at 10:53am
 
Public assets where created and payed for by the public to service the public through our government.

Selling them to private hands ceases the service to the public and all the benefits that come with the public assets go into private hands.

Example - Electricity:

When owned by the Australian public was one of the cheapest in the world.

Now in private hands one of the most expensive in the world.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: privatisation
Reply #387 - Jul 12th, 2023 at 11:24am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 11th, 2023 at 11:45pm:
3 decades of privatisation have indeed created this "sh1tshow":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqFPhsO-2W0


...priceless...


3 decades of privatization following the triumph of Thatcherite 'small government' ("low taxes") neoliberalism have indeed created the "sh1tshow" as revealed in the video.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: privatisation
Reply #388 - Jul 12th, 2023 at 11:26am
 
Ajax wrote on Jul 12th, 2023 at 10:53am:
Public assets where created and payed for by the public to service the public through our government.

Selling them to private hands ceases the service to the public and all the benefits that come with the public assets go into private hands.

Example - Electricity:

When owned by the Australian public was one of the cheapest in the world.

Now in private hands one of the most expensive in the world.



Correct; you'll love this video (!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqFPhsO-2W0
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thegreatdivide
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Re: privatisation
Reply #389 - Jul 12th, 2023 at 11:27am
 
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