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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49266 At my desk.	Re: privatisation Reply #540 - May 28^th, 2024 at 8:48pm Quote: it's a valuable addition to what the public service can't provide Why not? If the government gave the public service the money instead, would they just waste it?
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Daves2017

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Re: privatisation
Reply #541 - May 28^th, 2024 at 8:55pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2024 at 8:48pm:

Quote:

it's a valuable addition to what the public service can't provide

Why not? If the government gave the public service the money instead, would they just waste it?

A point often made . The reality ( in my mind) is however weight of numbers.

80% of what is outsourced is simply overflow.

Why be blind on a five year waiting list when you can see again in three months?

The other 20% I( very simple figure's for the sake of) is simply to prop a private hospital up.

In the same way a government might support any particular industry in the name of keeping jobs health is the same.

It worth noting everything seems to flow only to ONE private hospital owner?

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freediver

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Re: privatisation
Reply #542 - May 28^th, 2024 at 9:04pm

Daves2017 wrote on May 28^th, 2024 at 8:55pm:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2024 at 8:48pm:

Quote:

it's a valuable addition to what the public service can't provide

Why not? If the government gave the public service the money instead, would they just waste it?

A point often made . The reality ( in my mind) is however weight of numbers.

80% of what is outsourced is simply overflow.

Why be blind on a five year waiting list when you can see again in three months?

The other 20% I( very simple figure's for the sake of) is simply to prop a private hospital up.

In the same way a government might support any particular industry in the name of keeping jobs health is the same.

It worth noting everything seems to flow only to ONE private hospital owner?

Did you know that 80% of statistics are entirely made up?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Daves2017 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1167 Gender:	Re: privatisation Reply #543 - May 28^th, 2024 at 9:21pm I can count to potatoes?
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Daves2017

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Re: privatisation
Reply #544 - May 28^th, 2024 at 9:28pm

Lol, simply if a public hospital is working 24 hours a day you can't squeeze another two hours in.

It's not about extra funds. Peak capacity is reached in the public sector.

Imo it's actually run much tighter and to higher standards to the private health sector.

But it's a reasonable use of public coin to fund overflow into the private sector?

Any better ideas that don't include take 10 years and half a billion for each new hospital built?

No, labor and giggles will hate to admit it but the smartest way to handle the health system is to continue to outsource ( privatise) government services to private companies for a profit.

Which is what they are doing and been doing since last election.

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Dnarever

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Re: privatisation
Reply #545 - May 28^th, 2024 at 9:56pm

Frank wrote on May 28^th, 2024 at 10:56am:

Dnarever wrote on May 28^th, 2024 at 10:27am:

Frank wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 7:46pm:

Bollocks.

The private sector started things like schools and hospitals and benevolent societies long before government.

What matters is government regulation. It can keep privates out of let privates in.

I remember when the Commonwealth bank was privatised and the government guaranteed that they would control the financial industry through regulation instead of market competition.

The banks were caught ripping off everyone, The Prime Minister of Rodents at the time stood on the steps of parliament and told / begged the banks to do the right thing. The banking industry gave Howard the finger and told him to mind his own business - which he did.

The regulation scam does not get past the smell test - it simply gets overruled by the corruption.

Even government owned enterprises are regulated by governments. Government departments are regulated by governments. Yet they go bust.

See the collapse of the State Bank of Victoria and the State Bank of South Australia.

The Commonwealth Bank when public was used to set interest rates and the market banks then had the option to match the rate or to not be competitive. Now they just say get stuffed we will charge what we like.

When you talk regulation in terms of privatisation you are talking theory which could work in theory if it were ever to be applied. Fact is historically it never has been. Privatisation fails every time. There is no success story.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49266 At my desk.	Re: privatisation Reply #546 - May 29^th, 2024 at 7:34am Quote: It's not about extra funds. Peak capacity is reached in the public sector. What is limiting it? Quote: Any better ideas that don't include take 10 years and half a billion for each new hospital built? That's what good hospitals cost.
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SadKangaroo

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Re: privatisation
Reply #547 - May 29^th, 2024 at 7:56am

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2024 at 7:45am:

So it depends on the history. But also it doesn't.

It depends on whether it is an essential service, unless I ask whether it depends on whether it is an essential service.

Will your 'geographically unique' argument disappear if I look at it?

How do you not forgot to breathe on a daily basis?

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freediver

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Re: privatisation
Reply #548 - May 29^th, 2024 at 8:01am

SadKangaroo wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 7:56am:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2024 at 7:45am:

So it depends on the history. But also it doesn't.

It depends on whether it is an essential service, unless I ask whether it depends on whether it is an essential service.

Will your 'geographically unique' argument disappear if I look at it?

How do you not forgot to breathe on a daily basis?

I'll wait for you to get your story straight.

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SadKangaroo

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Re: privatisation
Reply #549 - May 29^th, 2024 at 8:24am

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 8:01am:

SadKangaroo wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 7:56am:

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2024 at 7:45am:

So it depends on the history. But also it doesn't.

It depends on whether it is an essential service, unless I ask whether it depends on whether it is an essential service.

Will your 'geographically unique' argument disappear if I look at it?

How do you not forgot to breathe on a daily basis?

I'll wait for you to get your story straight.

But that's not the problem.

I gave you the answer you asked for and then an example of it happening in the real world.

You've ignored the answer, got triggered because I used the word history and are doing your best to dodge and weave since you've got zero interest in a good faith debate.

It's this entire place in a nutshell, only at least despite some participants best efforts, at least not filled with racism.

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freediver

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Re: privatisation
Reply #550 - May 29^th, 2024 at 8:45am

Quote:

I gave you the answer you asked for and then an example of it happening in the real world.

You do not understand your own examples. You do not know whether the public actually benefitted from any historical examples of privatisation. You are just parroting propaganda and expecting us to take your word for it.

Nor are your examples any kind of basis for deciding whether an industry should be privatised or not. They are examples of the absence of that basis. The only thing that is consistent in them is how loud people complain.

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SadKangaroo

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Re: privatisation
Reply #551 - May 29^th, 2024 at 9:13am

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 8:45am:

Quote:

I gave you the answer you asked for and then an example of it happening in the real world.

You do not understand your own examples. You do not know whether the public actually benefitted from any historical examples of privatisation. You are just parroting propaganda and expecting us to take your word for it.

Nor are your examples any kind of basis for deciding whether an industry should be privatised or not. They are examples of the absence of that basis. The only thing that is consistent in them is how loud people complain.

You're projecting.

My concerns about privatisation are clear.

Shifting the focus from service delivery to a profit motive exploiting and comoditising those they're are providing the services to can lead to worse outcomes with costly bills to fix than leaving the entity in public hands.

You don't want to acknowledge that because it threatens your opinions.

You've made your position clear.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49266 At my desk.	Re: privatisation Reply #552 - May 29^th, 2024 at 9:36am Quote: My concerns about privatisation are clear. But also irrelevant if you are not actually proposing anything.
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Daves2017

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Re: privatisation
Reply #553 - May 29^th, 2024 at 12:45pm

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2024 at 7:34am:

Quote:

It's not about extra funds. Peak capacity is reached in the public sector.

What is limiting it?

Quote:

Any better ideas that don't include take 10 years and half a billion for each new hospital built?

That's what good hospitals cost.

It's limited by the mass of numbers and urgent need.

Find for a government to build a hospital and try and find staff for.

Not so fine if your dead by the time it happened.

More public hospitals are needed but long term investment isn't supported by politicians.

Better to " privatise" a simple solution.

I'm a example of privatising a particular service that I believe is extremely effective.

There is a long list of failures.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49266 At my desk.	Re: privatisation Reply #554 - May 29^th, 2024 at 12:55pm So you think privatisation is better because you cannot trust the government to plan ahead?
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