Australian Politics Forum

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12283
Gender: male

Re: privatisation
Reply #75 - Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:25pm

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 8:26pm:

Are you suggesting it is the history of an industry that should determine whether it is privatised?

Another stupid question from a self confessed fraud.

Quote:

If public schools are so great, why are so many people willing to pay a small fortune to buy a private education for their children and forgo what the government offers them for free?
Same with health care.

More stupid questions in a long line of stupid questions from a self-confessed ideological fraud, only capable of asking stupid questions rather than presenting and defending your own mindless ideology which is based on the current evil, interest bearing, debt money fraud (addressed in the MMT thread, post #149.

Quote:

All of your examples are meaningless gibberish.

Cor blimey...don't look in the mirror, it will break into a million pieces.

Quote:

It is better because you say it is better, but you have obviously put no thought at all into the truth of what you are saying, or even how to identify the truth.

ROTFL, coming from you, a (self-confessed) fraudulent ideologue who has no interest in identifying the truth.

Your non-replies to Dnarever certainly explain why the current blind-leading-the-blind democratic malaise is evident all around the globe. (eg, France, is it the extreme Left or the extreme Right or somewhere in between, that has command of 'the truth", while the poor keep getting poorer, no matter who is in power?)

Quote:

Take electricity for example. It is a commodity.

No, it is an essential service which should always be in public hands.

That's why SA liberal premier Sir Thomas Playford nationalized SA's electricity grid in 1950, because the private monopoly Adelaide Electricity Co. refused to develop newly discovered cheap brown coal (in 1950), in order to preserve higher profits via higher electricity prices based on previously existing more expensive black coal reserves. Playford dealt with that self-interest/greed quick smart.

Quote:

It leaves no wiggle room for you to blurt out that public electricity is of better quality than private.

Oh God, a dummy AND a self-confessed fraud. Of course electricity is electricity, whatever its source (public or private).

Quote:

All we have is price and reliability. Both easily measured.

Yes, but the source of the electricity - renewables, or fossils, has a massive impact on prices.....which eg the Adelaide Electricity Co refused to admit, to protect its profits when cheaper brown coal became available in SA, compared with the existing more expensive black coal preferred by the company, to protect its profits, f**k the public....

Quote:

For all the endless whinging about transferring electricity production to the private sector, why has no one presented a shred of objective evidence that it is actually worse?

Plenty of evidence eg the massive spike in privatized gas production and subsequent electricity prices in Oz several years ago, the mother of all market failures; and the fact the world is committed to exiting fossil fuels, demanding nationalization, as it becomes clear private sector markets will not achieve the transition to renewables quickly enough.

Still not interested in extricating yourself from your current status as a self confessed fraud (by reinstating the reply button in your post #125, in the Modern Monetary Theory thread?)

Apparently personal integrity doesn't rate in your ideology. Pathetic.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:49pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48816
At my desk.

Re: privatisation
Reply #76 - Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:44pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:12pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:10pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:09pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:06pm:

What economic theories do you think have been disproven?

which one hasn't?

Are you asking me to guess what you meant again, because you have absolutely no idea what you are on about?

No, I'm asking you to tell me what economic theory you think has proven to be true?

You are the one who brought it up John, not me.

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 8:59pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 7:18pm:

You are a mindless parrot, chanting empty slogans.

says the mindess parrot chanting 'ecomomic theory's' that has been proven to be false countless times

Have I caught you telling lies yet again again John?

Which economic theories am I chanting? And how have they been proven false countless times?

Given that pretty much every developed country is steadily privatising assets, don't you think it is a good idea to tell them about these disproven economic theories, in case they too as basing their decisions on them?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12283
Gender: male

Re: privatisation
Reply #77 - Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:59pm

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:44pm:

Have I caught you telling lies yet again again John?

..this question from a self-confessed fraud!

Quote:

Given that pretty much every developed country is steadily privatising assets, don't you think it is a good idea to tell them about these disproven economic theories, in case they too as basing their decisions on them?

You aren't interested in exploring truth, you self -confessed fraud. (I just heard the words, "a hypocrite and a liar", in relation to the current election campaign; your self -admitted fraudulence shows us why those words (in quotes above) represents the standard in most democracies.

As a matter of fact, every serious economic commentator recognizes we have a serious problem with increasing inequality and public and private indebtedness, all around the world.

Explain how balanced budgets and increasing privatization will reverse soaring inequality, both within and between nations.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 11^th, 2022 at 10:06pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 83329
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male

Re: privatisation
Reply #78 - Apr 11^th, 2022 at 11:28pm

Saying 'privatisation is good' over and over will not alter the fact that in every 'privatised' 'venture' the cost to the end user has gone up for a lower standard of service.

Now - I don't know how you define efficiency - but if I left my car with the mechanic and came back to find that, without my express permission, he had installed an engine that costs three times as much to run, I would successfully sue him.

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

aquascoot

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 34143
Gender: male

Re: privatisation
Reply #79 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 5:12am

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:03pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 7:54pm:

incorrect.

the best things that keep getting improved are made by private companies

just look at smart phones and tv's.

every year they get better and better.

Rubbish. They're not improving phones because they want to make them better for you, They're improving phones because they are trying to increase or maintain market share. If they could get away with selling you the same old nokia 5110 they were selling you decades ago, they would do it in a heartbeat.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 7:54pm:

anything done by government is catastrophic and usually a failure.

more rubbish.

they increase market share by making them better for you, idiot Roll Eyes

Back to top

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29107
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #80 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 6:45am

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2022 at 7:53pm:

For far more fundamental reasons - the government should not be running these businesses in the first place.

And for far more fundamental & moral reasons certain utility businesses like water & electricity generation/supply should not be in the hands of private enterprise.

It's a furphy/fallacy that only the private sector can run a business anyway.

The fact that many of our politicians come from a private sector background & often go back there after politics should be evident.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29107 Gender:	Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Reply #81 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 6:46am freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2022 at 8:36pm: What would have been done differently if it was in the government's hands? Maintenance of infrastructure assets for one.
Back to top	"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29107
Gender: male

Re: privatisation
Reply #82 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 6:50am

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 9:20am:

Because their management is too heavily influenced by politics. If you look at the workplace culture of state owned enterprises compared to privately owned ones it is always the same thing - unproductive, unmotivated.

A competitive marketplace will deliver the goods cheaper. Ultimately, it is for the same reason why capitalist economies are so much wealthier than the communist ones. Communism gives you an idea of what happens when the government controls all the businesses. So unless there is a sound economic reason - that is, a condition that makes a market failure both inevitable and worse than the alternative of government ownership - democratic governments around the world have been steadily unloading state owned assets.

Which industries do you consider to be a matter of national security?

You complete tosser Grin

You're saying that politics wouldn't be involved when the system is being run by LNP supporting business?

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29107
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #83 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:01am

Frank wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 10^th, 2022 at 11:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2022 at 7:53pm:

For far more fundamental reasons - the government should not be running these businesses in the first place.

Why not? Business certainly isn't doing much of a job of it....... time to resume them.

Explain to us why government should not be in those businesses in the first place..... that's the liberal business party line, but explain it to those of us who pay for it..... ..

Why should matters of national security not be in government hands, rather than in the hands of people who can sell it to some antithetical group?

Who controls the power while the power powers you? Who runs the roads while the roads ruin you? Who trains the trains while the trains train you to pay much more? Who ferries the ferries while the fairies fairy you?

What if ANY of these major infrastructure items fell into the hands of a controlling group that was allied with a nation that suddenly declared war on us?

Prevention is better than cure.........

National Security
Foreign investment is important for Australia’s long term economic success, stability and prosperity.

However, risks to Australia’s national interest, particularly national security, have increased as a result of developments including rapid technological change and changes in the international security environment.

The national security test provides the Treasurer with the ability to address new and emerging national security risks from foreign investment. The national security test:

requires mandatory notification of proposed investments in national security land, interests in exploration tenements over national security land, a proposed direct investment in a national security business or starting a new national security business;

allows investments that are not notified to be ‘called‑in’ for review on national security grounds;

allows investors who choose to voluntarily notify to receive certainty from being subject to ‘call‑in’; and

provides a last resort power, which, in exceptional circumstances, permits the Treasurer to impose conditions, vary existing conditions, or, as a last resort, require the divestment of any approved investment where national security risks emerge. This power is subject to a number of safeguards.

https://firb.gov.au/national-security

And for national security reasons we do not require foreign investment in essential public utilities like electricity & water supply.

Everything in it's place.... & we don't want in the current global climate countries like China controlling public essential services.

It's madness.

Furthermore we don't need to be following other nations into the massive debt traps that China/CCP have created so they can control the economy.

Much like what happened in the meat industry where our stupid policies allowed Japanese interests to acquire verticle integration in business by buying farms, buying the meat works & controlling/heavily influencing the prices at the saleyards & shipping their own beef.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29107
Gender: male

Re: privatisation
Reply #84 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:08am

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 1:22pm:

Quote:

The notion that the Government shouldn't run/own anything is incredibly short-sighted and is ideologically based. Even likening it to communism only strengthens that argument.

How does the clearest possible example of government ruining the economy by controlling all the businesses strengthen the argument for government ownership?

Quote:

Power, Water, Health etc, it's all the same.

No, they are all different. These are good examples of the different economic arguments for or against privatisation.

Quote:

I am accusing you of nothing less than outright fraudulence, removing the topic of privatization from the MMT thread.

That's nice dear.

Quote:

There has been no known successful privatisation in Australia.

How would you know if it was successful or not?

Quote:

Simply the NSW government could not afford the necessary upgrades and maintenance due to a long period of neglect.

So the infrastructure was being mismanaged by the government and this was only going to continue, and you think this is an argument for government ownership?

Quote:

Government running essential services makes a huge amount of sense.

Meaningless waffle. Is food an essential service?

There's another lie right there ..... no one is stating anything about "ALL" buisnesses.

I believe the point of this thread is in the main about the supply & control of electricity generation ..... & water can be added to that.

As I & others have stated many a time you are twistier than 2 eels phuqing in a bucket of snot.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29107
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #85 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:13am

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 3:00pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 2:56pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2022 at 8:36pm:

What would have been done differently if it was in the government's hands?

A transmission tower would have had all of its “feet” in a thick pad of cement. We saw one such tower toppled that day, one of its “feet” up in the air—with like a 20L collar of cement around the base of it. That is not how such a massive tower carrying high voltage lines is anchored to the ground! There were also not enough apprentices to get power back up more quickly.

I drove from Gawler to Marion through a blacked out city, cops on duty at major intersections directing traffic with torches. Bit like the blackout in WWIi Britain (apart from car headlights. Eery.)

Who built the tower?

Private enterprise - taking shortcuts?

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29107
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #86 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:17am

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 5:51pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 4:53pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2022 at 8:36pm:

What would have been done differently if it was in the government's hands?

they most likely would have had some sort of contingency in place.

Ah. So if the government run the electricity grid, there would be a few backup power stations, just in case? Or a second set of power lines?

There were.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29107
Gender: male

Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #87 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:20am

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 7:01pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 6:38pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 3:00pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 2:56pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2022 at 8:36pm:

What would have been done differently if it was in the government's hands?

A transmission tower would have had all of its “feet” in a thick pad of cement. We saw one such tower toppled that day, one of its “feet” up in the air—with like a 20L collar of cement around the base of it. That is not how such a massive tower carrying high voltage lines is anchored to the ground! There were also not enough apprentices to get power back up more quickly.

I drove from Gawler to Marion through a blacked out city, cops on duty at major intersections directing traffic with torches. Bit like the blackout in WWIi Britain (apart from car headlights. Eery.)

Who built the tower?

Uh, duh pwivate owna.

How do you know?

Dnarever wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 6:39pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 1:22pm:

Quote:

The notion that the Government shouldn't run/own anything is incredibly short-sighted and is ideologically based. Even likening it to communism only strengthens that argument.

Quote:

There has been no known successful privatisation in Australia.

How would you know if it was successful or not?

We would all know of some examples of better product, improved service a cost benefit, more effective or improvements in other metrics.

There simply are none and in fact many of there products and services have diminished in quality while increasing in cost.

In other words, you have no idea at all, and do not even know how to find out. You are just parroting union propaganda.

And as if others here don't know whose propaganda/agenda/line you are parroting.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29107
Gender: male

Re: privatisation
Reply #88 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:23am

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 7:11pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 7:07pm:

Because no reputable public utility would do such shoddy work. Because statements were made to that effect—all four feet should have been encased in a thick pad of concrete, not something you or I would do to secure a gatepost.

Maybe you should take the time and read up about that state-wide blackout?

I read that it was a once in 50 year storm. I grew with publicly owned electricity grids and blackouts happened after regular storms.

Those sort of descriptions are just excuse making BS.

And what you grew with was better maintained & repaired quicker than it is today under PE.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29107 Gender:	Re: privatisation Reply #89 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:26am freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 7:18pm: You are a mindless parrot, chanting empty slogans. And you have made as many empty statements in favour of PE .... NONE OF WHICH ARE TRUE.
Back to top	"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais IP Logged