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Mask mandates didn't do anything (Read 19632 times)
ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #315 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 12:17am
 
Carl D wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 9:56pm:
Gordon wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 7:53pm:
Everyone was coughing up furballs but the mask protected me. At least they work for something.

They even look like corona viruses!


I strongly suspect it isn't the plane trees causing it.

I see people from around Australia commenting daily on Twitter about the almost constant 'chorus of coughing' they hear in places like shopping centres these days - sounds like some of them are coughing up a lung.

I've even heard it myself a few times when I'm shopping. Thank goodness I'm still one of the few who didn't fall for the "pandemic is over, no need to wear a mask anymore" BS from our pathetic Federal and State governments (and the media, of course).


I think what people are saying is, that this is about, "CHOICE". I should have the choice of what I want to  put into my body. I should have a choice of what I want to put on my face. I should have a choice on whom I wish to share my medical history with. These choices were taken away from me. Now, I have them back.

So, you are free to keep your distance. You are free to wear as many masks has you like. And, you can take as many doses of this vaccine as you want. This is your right. Whatever makes you feel safe and secure.

But I also feel safe and secure, without doing all of these things. My freedom is worth more than the risk of catching the flu.
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AusGeoff
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #316 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 2:13am
 
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 4:19pm:
...Since I can't deposit any internet sites yet, you can type in,

"Mask works best? We filmed people coughing and sneezing to find out".

No problem:  We filmed people coughing and sneezing to find out

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 2:49am:
Since March 2020, 6,588,591 people have died from COVID, which means that
it kills far more people globally than measles.

ShellShilo wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 4:19pm:
I think you have a  misunderstanding of both,  the "Infection Mortality Rate"(which is falling), and the "Case Mortality Rate"(also decreasing). Neither depends exclusively, on the total number of deaths with/from the disease. Their rates are determined by  the number of deaths by a disease divided by the number of confirmed cases of the disease.

I was referring to raw numbers, rather than pro rata.

—And thank you for your considered input.  It makes a welcome
change in comparison to so much of the absolute bullshit posted
here about COVID and its vaccines, by a raft of conspiracy theorists.

          Smiley

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AusGeoff
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #317 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 2:34am
 
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 7:14pm:
Our freedoms were suspended by force, threats, coercion, and by shaming people into shoving whatever the government wants into their body. Even controlling and monitoring our movements and behavior, was never considered an intrusion. It was Jab or job, or mask or fine/prison?

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree with this.  You appear to be against
a specific government-imposed mandate—whilst ignoring a lot of others. 
Seat belts and bicycle helmets, speed limits and drink driving limits are
some of the obvious ones.  Do you comply with those?  Or do you consider
them overly authoritarian? 

Bear in mind each involves limiting your movements and behaviour at a
personal level.  But each is for the greater good of our society.  I know it's
a fine line between personal sovereignty and state mandates, but I for one
could see no ulterior motives at the time for compulsory mask wearing.

It's very easy to be wise after the event, but in the very early days of the
COVID pandemic, it was better to be safe than sorry.  And even if mask
wearing was ultimately abandoned officially, it did no harm—even if it did
no good.

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reggie1963
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #318 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 12:11pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 2:34am:
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 7:14pm:
Our freedoms were suspended by force, threats, coercion, and by shaming people into shoving whatever the government wants into their body. Even controlling and monitoring our movements and behavior, was never considered an intrusion. It was Jab or job, or mask or fine/prison?

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree with this.  You appear to be against
a specific government-imposed mandate—whilst ignoring a lot of others. 
Seat belts and bicycle helmets, speed limits and drink driving limits are
some of the obvious ones.  Do you comply with those?  Or do you consider
them overly authoritarian? 

Bear in mind each involves limiting your movements and behaviour at a
personal level.  But each is for the greater good of our society.  I know it's
a fine line between personal sovereignty and state mandates, but I for one
could see no ulterior motives at the time for compulsory mask wearing.

It's very easy to be wise after the event, but in the very early days of the
COVID pandemic, it was better to be safe than sorry.  And even if mask
wearing was ultimately abandoned officially, it did no harm—even if it did
no good.



Hey Dopey. Still pretending to be a scientist I see, quoting numbers and facts from newspapers and websites, thinking you are an expert. Your vax side effect is coming soon. The XBB variant is here so go get your next booster along with the ass fairy and Karl Dunce.
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FROM CARL DUNCE THE LYING SACK OF HORSE SH*T

"The only gigantic lie we've been fed (and continue to be fed) by our governments is that Covid is mild and no more dangerous than the flu"
 
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ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #319 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 1:25pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 2:13am:
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 4:19pm:
...Since I can't deposit any internet sites yet, you can type in,

"Mask works best? We filmed people coughing and sneezing to find out".

No problem:  

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 2:49am:
Since March 2020, 6,588,591 people have died from COVID, which means that
it kills far more people globally than measles.

ShellShilo wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 4:19pm:
I think you have a  misunderstanding of both,  the "Infection Mortality Rate"(which is falling), and the "Case Mortality Rate"(also decreasing). Neither depends exclusively, on the total number of deaths with/from the disease. Their rates are determined by  the number of deaths by a disease divided by the number of confirmed cases of the disease.

I was referring to raw numbers, rather than pro rata.

—And thank you for your considered input.  It makes a welcome
change in comparison to so much of the absolute bullshit posted
here about COVID and its vaccines, by a raft of conspiracy theorists. Smiley



Thank you for your kind words. For me, it is easier to tell the truth, than to avoid the truth.

The raw/total number of those infected alone, cannot tell you how lethal/virulent the disease is. It can only tell you just how infectious/transmissible the disease is. You can certainly claim that one disease can infect more people than another. But, I think it is also important to know just how many infected people have actually died from the disease. It would be a fallacy to determine the virulence of any disease, only by the total number of those it infects.

I'm sure you would rather be infected with a disease with a low mortality rate, than one with a high mortality rate. Regardless, of how many the disease can infect.

So, of the 629M people infected globally, we have lost 6.58M People(0.08% of the global population) from/with Covid-19. This represents a mortality rate of 1.0%. This low mortality means that 99% of those infected would recover. But if the those same numbers were infected with rabies, 629M people would be dead(8% of the global population). The mortality rate would be 100%. And, no one would recover(nearly). Can you see my point? 
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Gordon
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #320 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 1:57pm
 
Carl D wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 9:56pm:
Gordon wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 7:53pm:
Everyone was coughing up furballs but the mask protected me. At least they work for something.

They even look like corona viruses!


I strongly suspect it isn't the plane trees causing it.




Rubbish. The little fury floaty bits go right into your airway and cause an instant cough.
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IBI
 
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Gordon
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #321 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 2:28pm
 
They're like little darts and when they get into your throat, they cause coughing attacks," she says.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/plane-trees-a-serious-health-risk-du...
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IBI
 
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ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #322 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 4:33pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 2:34am:
Sorry, but I'd have to disagree with this.  You appear to be against
a specific government-imposed mandate—whilst ignoring a lot of others. 
Seat belts and bicycle helmets, speed limits and drink driving limits are
some of the obvious ones.  Do you comply with those?  Or do you consider
them overly authoritarian? 


I think you can see the false analogy and equivalence in making these comparisons. We have laws that tell people not to murder anyone. Does this mean we should also follow laws that tell us how we should  dress, or what we should eat?

I am against the Covid-19 mandates because they are NOT VOLUNTARY. This would open the door for even more stringent mandates, and more government intrusions into my privacy. We saw this happening, in the form of lockdowns, fines and arrests, curfews, border closures, turning Australians into a nation of dobbers, locator apps, Covid-19 ID cards and passports, and the closures of small businesses.

Wearing seatbelts and helmets, are both supported by established scientific causal links. The physics is sound and easily verifiable. The science supporting the rules for speeding and drink driving, is also sound and verifiable.

But, it is my commonsense that tells me to comply with these mechanical mandates. Because they will prevent death and serious injuries. This is NOT Authoritarianism. This is the government's duty of care.

But there is NO verifiable, reproducible causal links, that can demonstrate that wearing masks, distancing, or even being vaccinated, WILL prevent anyone from becoming infected, transmitting, or even dying from this virus. In fact, the stats have proven the opposite. It was a not-so-well thought out knee-jerk reaction, by children in power. They too, became the victims of their own disinformation narrative/rhetoric. They became image-orientated, rather than society-orientated.

They were willing to go to any lengths, to stop a microorganism smaller than the visible spectrum of light. This fight was lost from the very beginning. But the media kept telling you that it could be won. They lied. This fight has always been between our immune system, and the pathogen. Vaccinated or not.

reggie1963 wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 12:11pm:
Bear in mind each involves limiting your movements and behaviour at a
personal level.  But each is for the greater good of our society.  I know it's
a fine line between personal sovereignty and state mandates, but I for one
could see no ulterior motives at the time for compulsory mask wearing.


Every time I hear, "It's for the greater good", I begin to cringe. It can mean anything you want it to mean. It is just another meaningless political soundbite like, "National security", or "In the public interest", or, "A viable threat", or, "In our national interests". All are meaningless expressions that sound meaningful. They are called "Deepities", coined by Dennett.

I agree that our personal sovereignty is not absolute. But a virus less lethal than the measles, does NOT justify these draconian mandates. Maybe for an Ebola epidemic, or even a war. But not for a flu virus. The motives of the government are irrelevant. Only their actions are relevant.

reggie1963 wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 12:11pm:
It's very easy to be wise after the event, but in the very early days of the
COVID pandemic, it was better to be safe than sorry.  And even if mask
wearing was ultimately abandoned officially, it did no harm—even if it did
no good.


This is an argument from ignorance. We could see what the mortality rate was, even back then. We could see that the media was only spreading fear and anxiety. They blanketed the airway with deaths, number of infected, and the dangers of hospitals becoming overrun(none were). All lies and disinformation by omitting context and perspective.

This was a simply psychological maneuver by the government's media. People will believe anything. Just as long as you keep it simple, short, and repeat it often enough. And, it worked.

Unfortunately, the stats did not support the hype. And the backpedaling started. Eventually, the cracks became obvious. Think about it. If you had never heard of Covid-19 in the last 3 years, and there were no mandates, what changes would you have noticed different in your life? More people in your life dying from this virus?

It is best to just suck it up, and learn from this experience.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #323 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 10:54pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 1:58am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 27th, 2022 at 10:00pm:
You have been brainwashed for over 2 years into believing face masks work.

LOL... just as you've been brainwashed into believing they
don't by the anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists maybe???

Or are you somehow impervious to brainwashing?

BTW, these images...

https://i.postimg.cc/23RjCW75/Screenshot-2022-10-28-at-02-53-54-ZUBY-on-Twitter....

...refer specifically to these masks.

https://i.postimg.cc/2yf8DvwS/Screenshot-2022-10-28-at-02-55-33-Medical-Face-Mas...

You seem to be confused by the adequacy of surgical masks
in comparison to the better performance of fitted N95 masks.




As far as i know only parts of Germany made N95 masks mandatory with their mask mandate. Data shows it made no difference with mandatory N95 masks..

If you read posts earlier in this thread you will discover i have always said surgical and cloth masks were a waste of time and suggested N95s were the go. In light of reviewing data i will say i was wrong data shows N95s are useless with aerosol virus.

N95s aren't approved for working with Asbestos. The smallest Asbestos particles are over 50 times larger than aerosols.

I have talked to Industrial hygienists on this the only masks suitable are respirators with removable cannisters anything else is a waste of time.

Our mask mandates were totally useless you were sold a pup by politicians and media with bullshit they could do anything.
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #324 - Oct 29th, 2022 at 11:15pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 2:49am:
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 2:10am:
Also, the virus can enter the body through your eyes, and can spread via your tears. Maybe we should become a nation of helmet wearers?

I've noticed close-contact healthcare workers wearing these full face shields:

https://i.postimg.cc/4nCGD2D0/Covid-eye-protection-face-shield-1536x987-1.jpg

As well as protecting the eyes, a face shield may provide additional inhalation protection.



As ShellShilo pointed out you can contract covid through mucuos membranes in your eyes. Try google for covid eye protection.

This is another reason why mask mandates were totally useless the number of health care workers who were infected before eye protection for them became mandatory shows mask mandates were bullshit the gullible lapped up hook line and sinker.


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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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AusGeoff
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #325 - Oct 30th, 2022 at 1:27am
 
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 4:33pm:
But there is NO verifiable, reproducible causal links, that can demonstrate that wearing masks, distancing, or even being vaccinated, WILL prevent anyone from becoming infected, transmitting, or even dying from this virus. In fact, the stats have proven the opposite...

Once again I'd have to disagree with this.  The pro rata hospitalisation
and death rates of the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated proves that—at
the least—the COVID vaccinations were in fact nearly as effective as claimed
by the medicos.

As at 23 July 2022, per 100,000 persons, the death rate for the unvaccinated
was 10.62, and the death rate for the vaccinated was 0.93. [CDC, COVID-19
Response, Epidemiology Task Force, 3 September 2022.]

And again I have to thank you for your considered and well articulated comments.

I guess at this point, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the finer points.     Smiley

I'll leave you with these data from the US Department of Health & Human Services,
CDC, 27 January, 2022.

...



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AusGeoff
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #326 - Oct 30th, 2022 at 1:38am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 11:15pm:
As ShellShilo pointed out you can contract covid through mucous membranes in your eyes. Try google for covid eye protection.

Nobody is disputing this fact.  But in effect, what you're saying means that
even by wearing a mask to reduce airborne infection you're wasting your
time—which is demonstrably erroneous.  The other obvious point you've
ignored of course is that you don't sneeze or cough through your eyes (LOL)
so if you are infected, the only way you can directly transmit the virus to
others is via your nose or mouth.  Hence the wearing of a mask.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 11:15pm:
This is another reason why mask mandates were totally useless the number of health care workers who were infected before eye protection for them became mandatory shows mask mandates were bullshit the gullible lapped up hook line and sinker.

Sorry, but this is a truly feeble argument based on suspect logic.

How can you claim that people who wore masks were gullible?  And how is
it that the anti-mask brigade were—somehow—absent that alleged gullibility?

Are the unmasked more scientifically literate?  Or are all the mask wearers
mentally challenged?  In other words, what exactly determines an individual's
gullibility factor.      Please let me know.

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ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #327 - Oct 30th, 2022 at 4:23pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 30th, 2022 at 1:27am:
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 4:33pm:
But there is NO verifiable, reproducible causal links, that can demonstrate that wearing masks, distancing, or even being vaccinated, WILL prevent anyone from becoming infected, transmitting, or even dying from this virus. In fact, the stats have proven the opposite...

Once again I'd have to disagree with this.  The pro rata hospitalisation
and death rates of the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated proves that—at
the least—the COVID vaccinations were in fact nearly as effective as claimed
by the medicos.

As at 23 July 2022, per 100,000 persons, the death rate for the unvaccinated
was 10.62, and the death rate for the vaccinated was 0.93. [CDC, COVID-19
Response, Epidemiology Task Force, 3 September 2022.]

And again I have to thank you for your considered and well articulated comments.

I guess at this point, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the finer points.     Smiley

I'll leave you with these data from the US Department of Health & Human Services,
CDC, 27 January, 2022.


Thank you again for your kind words. And DITTO! I agree that we don't cough, sneeze, or breath through our eyes. But this is a non sequitur argument. The argument that was made, was that wearing a mask does not prevent the virus from entering, and infecting the body through the eyes. There was no argument made about how the eyes could transmit the virus. 

I also agree with you that vaccines are very effective at prompting our immune system into producing SARS-CoV-2-spike-protein-sensitive antibodies. Alternatively, if we do become infected, we could wait the 1-3 days, for our "acquired" immune system to start making its own SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. These antibodies will be sensitive to all parts of the virus, as well as their mutations.

I'm not a big fan of statistics. And, especially if the data is from another country. We can always find stats/data to agree/disagree with anything we want. The point is, that proponents of these vaccines are making the claim, that vaccines will protect you from becoming infected, transmitting, or even dying from this virus. This is simply not true.

And, saying that, "Well, there are more unvaccinated people dying, than vaccinated people", is only a deflection by changing the goal post(fallacy). The elephant in the room is, why are vaccinated people dying at all?

Since over 95% of the Australian population has been vaccinated, I would expect to see more vaccinated than unvaccinated people becoming infected, transmitting, and dying from this virus. And, that is what we are seeing today. NO vaccine can prevent a virus from entering our body and infecting us.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters if you are infected, is the condition of your immune system. If it is not already being compromise, you'll be fine. As the other 99% of survivors can attest to.

All the vaccines and boosters in the world, is not going to help a 95yo Covid-19 patient, with 5 chronic comorbidities and in a coma. You can't just use the death totals alone to make your point. You can't just ignore the many factors and variables that contributes to those death totals. How many of those people died WITH the disease? How many died directly FROM the disease? How many who died,  simply tested positive for having the antibodies for the virus? 

I was never against anyone CHOOSING to wear masks, distancing themselves, or even getting vaccinated. People should always have the right to make their own health decisions. It is their body, their life, and their choice. But once these medical mandates were introduced, those rights were suspended. The government was essentially forcing people to comply with all of their mandates under duress. Including, forcing people to put a registered poison(schedule 4) into their body. This is wrong under any litmus test.   

Thank you for listening. And, I will agree to disagree.


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Dnarever
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #328 - Oct 30th, 2022 at 4:56pm
 
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 12:17am:
Carl D wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 9:56pm:
Gordon wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 7:53pm:
Everyone was coughing up furballs but the mask protected me. At least they work for something.

They even look like corona viruses!


I strongly suspect it isn't the plane trees causing it.

I see people from around Australia commenting daily on Twitter about the almost constant 'chorus of coughing' they hear in places like shopping centres these days - sounds like some of them are coughing up a lung.

I've even heard it myself a few times when I'm shopping. Thank goodness I'm still one of the few who didn't fall for the "pandemic is over, no need to wear a mask anymore" BS from our pathetic Federal and State governments (and the media, of course).


I think what people are saying is, that this is about, "CHOICE". I should have the choice of what I want to  put into my body. I should have a choice of what I want to put on my face. I should have a choice on whom I wish to share my medical history with. These choices were taken away from me. Now, I have them back.

So, you are free to keep your distance. You are free to wear as many masks has you like. And, you can take as many doses of this vaccine as you want. This is your right. Whatever makes you feel safe and secure.

But I also feel safe and secure, without doing all of these things. My freedom is worth more than the risk of catching the flu.


Quote:
I think what people are saying is, that this is about, "CHOICE". I should have the choice of what I want to  put into my body. I should have a choice of what I want to put on my face. I should have a choice on whom I wish to share my medical history with.


You also get the choice of being prosecuted if your choice kills other people.
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ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #329 - Oct 30th, 2022 at 9:00pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 30th, 2022 at 4:56pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Oct 29th, 2022 at 12:17am:
Carl D wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 9:56pm:
Gordon wrote on Oct 28th, 2022 at 7:53pm:
Everyone was coughing up furballs but the mask protected me. At least they work for something.

They even look like corona viruses!


I strongly suspect it isn't the plane trees causing it.

I see people from around Australia commenting daily on Twitter about the almost constant 'chorus of coughing' they hear in places like shopping centres these days - sounds like some of them are coughing up a lung.

I've even heard it myself a few times when I'm shopping. Thank goodness I'm still one of the few who didn't fall for the "pandemic is over, no need to wear a mask anymore" BS from our pathetic Federal and State governments (and the media, of course).


I think what people are saying is, that this is about, "CHOICE". I should have the choice of what I want to  put into my body. I should have a choice of what I want to put on my face. I should have a choice on whom I wish to share my medical history with. These choices were taken away from me. Now, I have them back.

So, you are free to keep your distance. You are free to wear as many masks has you like. And, you can take as many doses of this vaccine as you want. This is your right. Whatever makes you feel safe and secure.

But I also feel safe and secure, without doing all of these things. My freedom is worth more than the risk of catching the flu.


Quote:
I think what people are saying is, that this is about, "CHOICE". I should have the choice of what I want to  put into my body. I should have a choice of what I want to put on my face. I should have a choice on whom I wish to share my medical history with.


You also get the choice of being prosecuted if your choice kills other people.


What crime exactly would you be prosecuted for? 
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