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Mask mandates didn't do anything (Read 19511 times)
ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #360 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 12:25am
 
Dnarever wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 11:29pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 11:16pm:
AusGeoff wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 9:21pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 10:33am:
...There is no evidence masks work with flu virus which is also airborne so masking is bullshit from politicians trying to give the appearance they're doing something.

Not so...

Masks can block 99.9% of COVID-linked droplets.  Research shows they
are ‘highly effective’ at reducing spread of respiratory droplets.

As these droplets are likely to be the main driver of COVID transmission,
our data suggest that the wearing of masks can substantially reduce the
probability of an infected person transmitting the virus, Lucia Bandiera et al
wrote in The Royal Society, Open Science.

The researchers estimated that a person standing 2m from someone
coughing without a mask is exposed to more than 10,000 times
more respiratory droplets than from someone standing 0.5m away
wearing a basic single-layer mask
.

"The simple message from our research is that face masks work", researcher
Professor Paul Digard said. "Wearing a face covering will reduce the probability
that someone unknowingly infected with the virus will pass it on".

—I just don't know how often we have to hammer this sort of clinical research
   and its results into the heads of the anti-vaxxer brigade before it sticks.  And
   this explains in large part why the unvaccinated are dying at here in Australia. [ABC News,  12 Apr 2022.]


I doubt that anyone with a few working brain cells would disagree, that if someone coughs or sneezes in your unprotected face, that this would increase your chances of becoming infected to almost a certainty. Assuming of course, that the person is infected with this virus in the first place. But lets look at the science in more detail.

In a cough there can be up to 3,000 droplets produced. In a sneezed, there can be up to 20,000 droplets produced. There are up to 10^8 virions in 1 ml of droplets. So a mask with a 99.9% protection rating, would still allow up to a 100K virions to get through its pores(it only takes 100-200 virions to infect any human).

You would need a mask with a 99.9999% protection rating to actually protect you from becoming infected. No such mask exist with this level of protection.

Also, masks can't protect you from the droplets that land on different surfaces. And, you can't washaway most of the virions in/on your skin(not just on/in your hands).

Will wearing masks reduce the chances of you becoming infected? YES. Will mask prevent you from becoming infected? NO. Do masks reduce the spread of respiratory virions? YES. Do masks prevent the spread of respiratory virions? NO. Will vaccines reduce your chances of dying? NO. Only the condition of our immune system can do this. Will vaccines reduce the severity of the symptoms of this disease? YES.

You stated that "something" explains why unvaccinated people are dying at 3 times the rate as vaccinated people. What explains this? The actual comment from your reference is,

"South Australian health authorities have released COVID vaccination statistics showing people who are unvaccinated are more than three times AS LIKELY to die from the virus than those who've had THREE doses.".

So these deaths included not only unvaccinated people, but also people who have had 1 and 2 doses of this vaccine(vaccinated). Looks as though they just changed the goal post to give this false perception. I think this is just more clever wording by the media, to allow some people to hear exactly what they want to hear.

I'm curious. Do you think the unvaccinated don't wear masks or practice safe distancing? Or, do you think that some people just don't want to inject themselves with anything that will force normal muscle cells, to start producing viral spike proteins? I think the latter is more plausible.


Quote:
So these deaths included not only unvaccinated people, but also people who have had 1 and 2 doses of this vaccine(vaccinated).


>3 X more likely than the 3 doses of vaccine.

Maybe only >2 X those who have had 1 shot ?


Not sure of the relevance here. If you are going to claim that 3 times more vaccinated people are likely to die, than those vaccinated, then  you can't include any vaccinated people. Whether they have had only 1 or 2 doses is irrelevant. You've simply included vaccinated people as well to make a false claim.
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AusGeoff
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #361 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 12:26am
 
ShellShilo wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 12:07am:
...Just because you have received a vaccine for something, doesn't mean that the vaccine will prevent the disease.

Yes it does, in most cases.  Can I ask you if you've ever had a/any vaccine
Shell, and if so why?

EG:  If you stood on a rusty nail, would you get a tetanus shot?


ShellShilo wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 12:07am:
There may be many reasons why the numbers of influenza cases are down.

The main reason of course is that many people now get their
seasonal flu vaccination.  I've been doing this since 1967 and
have never once suffered from influenza.

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ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #362 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 1:13am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 9:42pm:
I've lost track of the number of times I've posted these
sort of data, but it's becoming increasingly obvious that
the single-minded, inward-looking stubbornness of the
anti-vaxxer mindset is proving difficult to overcome.


This is very true. And it works both ways.

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 9:42pm:
These "people" you cite are an aggregation of virologists, epidemiologists,
scientists, and pharmacologists from all over the world.  They're not simply
a bunch of non-qualified, random people making unevidenced claims or
unsubstantiated guesses on forums.  They have literally millions of pages
of data to draw upon, from hundreds of global, clinical metastudies.


Do any of these lettered experts, then and now, say that masks will prevent anyone from becoming infected or dying from this virus? NO. Do any of these experts, then and now, say that vaccines will prevent you from becoming infected, spreading, or dying from this virus? NO. Do any of these experts, then and now, say that isolation, distancing, or even washing your hands, will prevent you from becoming infected with this virus. NO.

I don't think you need 8 years of a tertiary education, to know that man can't stop, let alone eradicate a virus. With the exception of smallpox so far. When experts claim that some action can reduce or help at something. This also means, that some action may NOT help or reduce at something. Also, many of these experts may even disagree with each other. So an appeal to the experts is just another logical fallacy.

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 9:42pm:
EG:  In April 2022, adults who had received fewer than two vaccines made
up 5% of all people in NSW, but they made up 25% of people in NSW intensive
care units.  The chances of being in an ICU bed in any given week if you’re
unvaccinated is 60 per 1 million people, compared with 8 per 1 million people
who've had two or more doses of the vaccine.

—Australian Academy of Science, 24 June 2022.


So are you now saying, that if you are unvaccinated, or have had only 1 dose of this vaccine, that you will be 8 times more likely to end up in an ICU bed, on any given week, in NSW? I think that we are just spinning the numbers to match the narrative we want. In the end, whether you are vaccinated or not, the mortality rate of this disease is still around 1%. And has been for almost 3 years. The only determining factor is the condition of our immune system.
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ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #363 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 1:38am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 12:26am:
Yes it does, in most cases.  Can I ask you if you've ever had a/any vaccine
Shell, and if so why?

EG:  If you stood on a rusty nail, would you get a tetanus shot?


Yes I have. But as a child I never had a choice. But my children have had all their vaccinations. As a parent it would be irresponsible for me not to vaccinate my children. But remember, none of these vaccines use mRNA tech. They use whole or attenuated viruses and bacterium. Which I have no objection to.

If you do not get the disease, it only means that your innate immune system is working just fine. Or , you have not been infected. The vaccine only primes this system. But you are right, "in most cases". But in some cases, especially for people in the high risk categories, vaccines can be ineffective.

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 12:26am:
ShellShilo wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 12:07am:
...Just because you have received a vaccine for something, doesn't mean that the vaccine will prevent the disease.

Yes it does, in most cases.  Can I ask you if you've ever had a/any vaccine
Shell, and if so why?

EG:  If you stood on a rusty nail, would you get a tetanus shot?


ShellShilo wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 12:07am:
There may be many reasons why the numbers of influenza cases are down.

The main reason of course is that many people now get their
seasonal flu vaccination.  I've been doing this since 1967 and
have never once suffered from influenza.


People should always do what they think is right for themselves. I've never had the flu that I can remember. And, I have never had a flu shot. Maybe I should at my age. But, a virus with less than a 1% mortality rate, I'm just not that concerned. Knock on wood!

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buzzanddidj
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #364 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 6:26am
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:25pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 11:03am:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 10:12am:
Distancing did help and it was known that none of the protective strategies were 100% but they were all much better than nothing.



How much better than nothing were the results of these protocols?
It certainly didn't stop (or slow down) the infections, transmission, hospitalizations, or the deaths from this virus.



Aside precisely which version of did "nothing" data, are you making the comparisons ?





OBVIOUSLY, we have no "we did nothing" figures to juxtapose against "we did everything"
so, it's a pointless argument.



It reminds me of the pro case for advertising.
A business owner was going through a bad patch of declining sales, till he eventually went broke and had to close his business down.

He was glad that he'd stopped spending money on advertising over his last year

- as it would have been "good money chasing after bad"




.
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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #365 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 7:24am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 9:21pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 10:33am:
...There is no evidence masks work with flu virus which is also airborne so masking is bullshit from politicians trying to give the appearance they're doing something.

Not so...

Masks can block 99.9% of COVID-linked droplets.  Research shows they
are ‘highly effective’ at reducing spread of respiratory droplets.



I think part of the problem is people don't understand the difference between droplets and aerosols.

Droplets by definition cannot be inhaled they fall to the ground within 1.5 m  masks are ineffective since droplets cannot be inhaled. If droplet was main cause of transmission then social distancing would be enough.

Here are over 150 studies showing masks don't work
Quote:
More than 150 Comparative Studies and Articles on Mask Ineffectiveness and Harms


It is not unreasonable to conclude that surgical and cloth masks, used as they currently are being used (without other forms of PPE protection), have no impact on controlling the transmission of Covid-19 virus. Current evidence implies that face masks can be actually harmful. The body of evidence indicates that face masks are largely ineffective.

I present the masking ‘body of evidence’ below (n=167 studies and pieces of evidence), comprised of comparative effectiveness research as well as related evidence and high-level reporting. To date, the evidence has been stable and clear that masks do not work to control the virus and they can be harmful and especially to children.

https://brownstone.org/articles/more-than-150-comparative-studies-and-articles-o...


It appears many don't understand difference between droplet and aerosols


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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #366 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 7:26am
 
Read the warning label when choosing PPE. Wink
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Carl D
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #367 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:07am
 
1918 'Spanish' flu.

Even the cat was smart enough to mask up (and not complain by the look of it).

Some of the snowflakes we have in society today who find it inconvenient to wear a mask even for an hour or so in the shops to protect themselves and the elderly and medically vulnerable from Covid should see this.
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« Last Edit: Nov 14th, 2022 at 10:06pm by Carl D »  

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** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #368 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:40am
 
Carl D wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:07am:
Some of the snowflakes we have in society today who find it inconvenient to wear a mask even for an hour or so in the shops to protect themselves and the elderly and medically vulnerable from Covid should see this.


Some of the brainwashed people should tell us what will not provide any protection actually means with this warning label.


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Carl D
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #369 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:45am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:40am:
Some of the brainwashed people should tell us what will not provide any protection actually means with this warning label.


What that actually means is people should be wearing high quality K/KN95/P2 and similar respirator type masks and not surgical "baggy blues".
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** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #370 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:56am
 
Carl D wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:45am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:40am:
Some of the brainwashed people should tell us what will not provide any protection actually means with this warning label.


What that actually means is people should be wearing high quality K/KN95/P2 and similar respirator type masks and not surgical "baggy blues".


A respirator has a removable cartridge. You need to select specific cartridge for what you are trying to protect yourself from

N95 aren't approved for Asbestos work the smallest Asbestos particles are over 50 times larger than Aerosols.

Germany was the only country to make N95 mandatory they don't work with Aerosols. If they worked you would see a significant decrease compared to Sweden.
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #371 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 2:54pm
 
Carl D wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:45am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 9:40am:
Some of the brainwashed people should tell us what will not provide any protection actually means with this warning label.


What that actually means is people should be wearing high quality K/KN95/P2 and similar respirator type masks and not surgical "baggy blues".



If you fart with an n95 on, can you smell it?
Try it and report back.
I know what the truthful answer will be. Let's see if you're truthful Carl.
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Carl D
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #372 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 3:08pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 2:54pm:
If you fart with an n95 on, can you smell it?
Try it and report back.
I know what the truthful answer will be. Let's see if you're truthful Carl.


lol... OK, I'll play.

Can You Still Smell Odours Through N95 Mask?

Quote:
You can still smell odours through an N95 mask. This doesn’t mean that your mask isn’t protecting you against viral infections like COVID-19. Molecules responsible for smell are tiny compared to viruses. So, N95 masks can effectively filter out virus particles, but not gas molecules because of size.

Face masks are designed to protect against viruses mostly, so the chances of still being able to smell things through them are high.


Personally, I haven't smelt (smelled?) a fart through one but I have smelt cigarette smoke when I'm near a smoker occasionally and also the smell of food if I'm near a food court in a shopping centre, etc.

Smiley
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** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **
 
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ShellShilo
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #373 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 8:25pm
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 14th, 2022 at 6:26am:
buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:25pm:
ShellShilo wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 11:03am:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 10:12am:
Distancing did help and it was known that none of the protective strategies were 100% but they were all much better than nothing.



How much better than nothing were the results of these protocols?
It certainly didn't stop (or slow down) the infections, transmission, hospitalizations, or the deaths from this virus.



Aside precisely which version of did "nothing" data, are you making the comparisons ?





OBVIOUSLY, we have no "we did nothing" figures to juxtapose against "we did everything"
so, it's a pointless argument.


It reminds me of the pro case for advertising.
A business owner was going through a bad patch of declining sales, till he eventually went broke and had to close his business down.

He was glad that he'd stopped spending money on advertising over his last year

- as it would have been "good money chasing after bad"


.


What I'm saying is, that saying that "..it's better than doing nothing", is just a meaningless expression. It means everything when you say it, but nothing when asked to demonstrate it. Clearly the measures("the something") that we've forced onto the public have done "nothing" to stop, reduce, or prevent this virus from spreading, or killing those most vulnerable.

The data and stats clearly show that people are still being infected. People are still infecting others. People are still dying from this virus. And, people are still being treated and hospitalized(vaccinated or not) to cure their illness. This is the same scenario that have been played out over the last 60 years of viral and bacterial infections. Before man decided that he could stop an infectious virus from infecting man. In the end, herd immunity will be the only thing achieved.



But for some reason, this virus requires the government to make the cure worse than the illness. Building internment camps, locator apps, holding jobs to ransom, business closures, ID passports, etc. This is medical fascist madness, and government overreach. Especially for a virus, no more lethal than the measles.

This demonstrates just how easily people can be manipulated, to believe whatever they are told. People are too apathetic, ignorant, indifferent, or just too gullible to do their own research for the truth.

There is no reason to juxtaposition anything. None of the medical and social protocols have stopped or reduced the number of deaths, transmission, or infections due to this virus. So WHY would you say that it is better than nothing? Clearly it isn't.   

I have no idea what the relevance of your advertising metaphor is. But you could easily go back 60 years and see the stats on colds and flus. Including the infection rates, transmission rates, and mortality rates. Then compare those stats with the stats of almost 3 years of locking everyone down. I would expect to see very little difference.
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Dnarever
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #374 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 8:49pm
 
December was when all restrictions were removed - i.e. we stopped using masks and distancing.

See the trend. Since then the deaths have greatly increases we are now near 16,000 deaths and having sometimes  20 or more a day.

This was not happening when people were wearing masks - it just wasn't.


This graph is showing up till December masks on After December Masks off. It is not difficult to see the difference.

Note: I typed this real slowly.
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