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Mask mandates didn't do anything (Read 19339 times)
Dnarever
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #540 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 6:47pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 6:24pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 6:18pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 6:06pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 5:44pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 4:34pm:
We should look at all of Africa not just one part.



I'll get the shovel for you Baron - where do you want to move the goalposts?

The same reason applicable to South Africa would pretty much apply to all of Africa. The equator goes through the centre of Africa places close to the equator are less attractive to covid. All of africa have experience with the worst communicable diseases and treat them very seriously. Unlike many western countries.


Get that shovel for yourself, jump in the hole and fill it in.

'would pretty much apply', eh! Why? Cos all dem darkee countries got same juju?


If your South Africa flexible boat had any merit a 5 minute google search would not have torn it to tiny little pieces.

But it didn't tear it to pieces. Your fear of death is driving your cognitive bias, that's why you phrased your reference to all of Africa the way you did.

There's a concept you need to get used to. The world doesn't need you around to keep it turning. No society is going to humour your fear of death by obsessively acting out your faux safety fantasies.


It clearly explains why they did well, it shows their natural advantages it shows the cultural and social advantage and it shows the advantage with general pandemic action built on necessary experience.

This clearly demonstrates that the claims you made about South Africa were incorrect and not relevant to this discussion.

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #541 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 6:55pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 6:18pm:
The same reason applicable to South Africa would pretty much apply to all of Africa. The equator goes through the centre of Africa places close to the equator are less attractive to covid. All of africa have experience with the worst communicable diseases and treat them very seriously. Unlike many western countries.

By the way, codge, do one of your two-minute noodle googles on the equatorial zone. Northern Africa and southern Africa are as far from the equator as Australia is.
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Dnarever
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #542 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:21pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 6:55pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 6:18pm:
The same reason applicable to South Africa would pretty much apply to all of Africa. The equator goes through the centre of Africa places close to the equator are less attractive to covid. All of africa have experience with the worst communicable diseases and treat them very seriously. Unlike many western countries.

By the way, codge, do one of your two-minute noodle googles on the equatorial zone. Northern Africa and southern Africa are as far from the equator as Australia is.


Where are Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, Somalia, Equador and Brazil.?

Quote:
Northern Africa and southern Africa are as far from the equator as Australia is.


Yes but your friend changed the claim to Africa ? The article is saying that South Africa has a climate resistant to covid, You may note that being like Australia is not a bad thing - We did very well against covid - better than South Africa - a lot better.

Still nothing that helps your claim.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #543 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:39pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:21pm:
Quote:
Northern Africa and southern Africa are as far from the equator as Australia is.


Yes but your friend changed the claim to Africa ? The article is saying that South Africa has a climate resistant to covid, You may note that being like Australia is not a bad thing - We did very well against covid - better than South Africa - a lot better.

Still nothing that helps your claim.

Australia's national health care is many times more effective than South Africa's.

Australia's vaccination is high, yet the excess-death rate remains relatively high (at least that was the case before the data ceased to be published).

South Africa's vaccination rate is low, yet the excess-death rate is low.

Even if the outcomes for both countries were the same (let alone better outcomes in Australia due to better health care), indicates that there are other likely causes for the South African outcomes.

South African necromancy, you think?
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Dnarever
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #544 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:39pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:21pm:
Quote:
Northern Africa and southern Africa are as far from the equator as Australia is.


Yes but your friend changed the claim to Africa ? The article is saying that South Africa has a climate resistant to covid, You may note that being like Australia is not a bad thing - We did very well against covid - better than South Africa - a lot better.

Still nothing that helps your claim.

Australia's national health care is many times more effective than South Africa's.

Australia's vaccination is high, yet the excess-death rate remains relatively high (at least that was the case before the data ceased to be published).

South Africa's vaccination rate is low, yet the excess-death rate is low.

Even if the outcomes for both countries were the same (let alone better outcomes in Australia due to better health care), indicates that there are other likely causes for the South African outcomes.

South African necromancy, you think?


Quote:
Even if the outcomes for both countries were the same


The Australian death rate is 20% of South Africa's.

South Africa did well - we did better.

South Africa have a solid health system we have better, they rank mid field. They do have universal health coverage.

As pointed out they have a significant natural advantage on the more serious communicable diseases which gave them a huge jump start with covid. They already had the infrastructure in place and a population that knew what to do and were willing to do it.
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« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:52pm by Dnarever »  
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #545 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:52pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm:
The Australian death rate is 20% of South Africa's.

South Africa did well - we did better.

South Africa have a solid health system we have better, they rank mid field. They do have universal health coverage.

As we would have during the first and second deadly waves of covid in the first and second halves of 2020, respectively, given Australia's high-quality health care and responsiveness relative to South Africa's.

However, South Africa now has a low to zero excess mortality rate while Australia's is still likely at 9+%

Why is that?

South Africa has free low-quality health care. It is not 'solid' if by solid you mean good, (and not consistently low).
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #546 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:06pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm:
As pointed out they have a significant natural advantage on the more serious communicable diseases which gave them a huge jump start with covid. They already had the infrastructure in place and a population that knew what to do and were willing to do it.

No. That is official disinformation.

There is no conclusive evidence as to why South Africa and other African countries are doing well because government-run studies into the phenomenon have not been conducted, particularly where there's a risk that studies may indicate that vaccines have had a direct or contributory role in causing excess deaths.

There is certainly pressure on governments, healthcare providers, big pharma and big media to hold fast to the orthodoxy that whatever is causing excess deaths, it's not the vaccines.

It's reminiscent of China's so-called bat lady, Dr Shi Zhengli, who was a director of the Wuhan lab studies into gain-of-function research, insisting that wherever covid-19 came from, it did not come from the WIV.

Then she disappeared and has not been seen or heard of publicly for over 2 years.
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Dnarever
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #547 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:07pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:52pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm:
The Australian death rate is 20% of South Africa's.

South Africa did well - we did better.

South Africa have a solid health system we have better, they rank mid field. They do have universal health coverage.

As we would have during the first and second deadly waves of covid in the first and second halves of 2020, respectively, given Australia's high-quality health care and responsiveness relative to South Africa's.

However, South Africa now has a low to zero excess mortality rate while Australia's is still likely at 9+%

Why is that?

South Africa has free low-quality health care. It is not 'solid' if by solid you mean good, (and not consistently low).


You want to hang your hat on excess mortality.

South Africa has a covid death of about 105,000.

Their excess mortality rate says that they lost over 300,000 people.

In Australia we are traveling around 9%

We have had around 19,000 deaths and the excess mortality rate is saying that there are about 16,000 more deaths. around 35,000 people


You sure that you want to make that argument?

Maybe they look to be doing better now because all their excess people have already died ?
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« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:16pm by Dnarever »  
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #548 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:14pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:06pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm:
As pointed out they have a significant natural advantage on the more serious communicable diseases which gave them a huge jump start with covid. They already had the infrastructure in place and a population that knew what to do and were willing to do it.

No. That is official disinformation.

There is no conclusive evidence as to why South Africa and other African countries are doing well because government-run studies into the phenomenon have not been conducted, particularly where there's a risk that studies may indicate that vaccines have had a direct or contributory role in causing excess deaths.

There is certainly pressure on governments, healthcare providers, big pharma and big media to hold fast to the orthodoxy that whatever is causing excess deaths, it's not the vaccines.

It's reminiscent of China's so-called bat lady, Dr Shi Zhengli, who was a director of the Wuhan lab studies into gain-of-function research, insisting that wherever covid-19 came from, it did not come from the WIV.

Then she disappeared and has not been seen or heard of publicly for over 2 years.


Africa were dealing with an ebola outbreak when covid hit. They had infrastructure for testing communicable disease already in place and a decades long history of dealing with communicable diseases they had people trained to test and a community ready and willing to act responsibly. They had a jump start on the rest of the world.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #549 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:40pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:07pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:52pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm:
The Australian death rate is 20% of South Africa's.

South Africa did well - we did better.

South Africa have a solid health system we have better, they rank mid field. They do have universal health coverage.

As we would have during the first and second deadly waves of covid in the first and second halves of 2020, respectively, given Australia's high-quality health care and responsiveness relative to South Africa's.

However, South Africa now has a low to zero excess mortality rate while Australia's is still likely at 9+%

Why is that?

South Africa has free low-quality health care. It is not 'solid' if by solid you mean good, (and not consistently low).


You want to hang your hat on excess mortality.

South Africa has a covid death of about 105,000.

Their excess mortality rate says that they lost over 300,000 people.

In Australia we are traveling around 9%

We have had around 19,000 deaths and the excess mortality rate is saying that there are about 16,000 more deaths. around 35,000 people


You sure that you want to make that argument?

Maybe they look to be doing better now because all their excess people have already died ?

This is where your fear of death drives your cognitive bias, again. The cumulative total number of deaths does not indicate the rate at which people are dying at times when no one expects they should be.

During the 3 deadly waves of covid, excess deaths were comprehensible. What's not being studied is why excess-death rates are still persisting and increasing (except in places like South Africa) while covid deaths have plummeted.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #550 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:43pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:14pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:06pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm:
As pointed out they have a significant natural advantage on the more serious communicable diseases which gave them a huge jump start with covid. They already had the infrastructure in place and a population that knew what to do and were willing to do it.

No. That is official disinformation.

There is no conclusive evidence as to why South Africa and other African countries are doing well because government-run studies into the phenomenon have not been conducted, particularly where there's a risk that studies may indicate that vaccines have had a direct or contributory role in causing excess deaths.

There is certainly pressure on governments, healthcare providers, big pharma and big media to hold fast to the orthodoxy that whatever is causing excess deaths, it's not the vaccines.

It's reminiscent of China's so-called bat lady, Dr Shi Zhengli, who was a director of the Wuhan lab studies into gain-of-function research, insisting that wherever covid-19 came from, it did not come from the WIV.

Then she disappeared and has not been seen or heard of publicly for over 2 years.


Africa were dealing with an ebola outbreak when covid hit. They had infrastructure for testing communicable disease already in place and a decades long history of dealing with communicable diseases they had people trained to test and a community ready and willing to act responsibly. They had a jump start on the rest of the world.

Where did the DRC, Gabon, the Congo, Sudan and Uganda receive help with the ebola outbreak from (given there was no pandemic in 2014)?
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Dnarever
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #551 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 9:04pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:43pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:14pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:06pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm:
As pointed out they have a significant natural advantage on the more serious communicable diseases which gave them a huge jump start with covid. They already had the infrastructure in place and a population that knew what to do and were willing to do it.

No. That is official disinformation.

There is no conclusive evidence as to why South Africa and other African countries are doing well because government-run studies into the phenomenon have not been conducted, particularly where there's a risk that studies may indicate that vaccines have had a direct or contributory role in causing excess deaths.

There is certainly pressure on governments, healthcare providers, big pharma and big media to hold fast to the orthodoxy that whatever is causing excess deaths, it's not the vaccines.

It's reminiscent of China's so-called bat lady, Dr Shi Zhengli, who was a director of the Wuhan lab studies into gain-of-function research, insisting that wherever covid-19 came from, it did not come from the WIV.

Then she disappeared and has not been seen or heard of publicly for over 2 years.


Africa were dealing with an ebola outbreak when covid hit. They had infrastructure for testing communicable disease already in place and a decades long history of dealing with communicable diseases they had people trained to test and a community ready and willing to act responsibly. They had a jump start on the rest of the world.

Where did the DRC, Gabon, the Congo, Sudan and Uganda receive help with the ebola outbreak from (given there was no pandemic in 2014)?


The Covid outbreak was in 2014 ?
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #552 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 9:16pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:07pm:
Maybe they look to be doing better now because all their excess people have already died ?

If that was the honest consensus among Governments, health services, big pharma and big media, there'd have been studies initiated months ago. Instead, they're pulling any data from publications that might indicate something.

What could that something be?

This refusal by the big four to go there may indicate that they collectively suspect that they will find a link between mandated vaccines and excess deaths.

It would explain why they're not proposing thorough studies on the excess deaths phenomenon.

And another thing: if a link was established between vaccines and excess deaths, it would be the biggest health-services catastrophe since Thalidomide - that's a roll of the dice I'd bet the big four are not willing to make.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #553 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 9:18pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2023 at 2:37pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 13th, 2023 at 11:56am:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 13th, 2023 at 11:50am:
Most people would have been using masks clean and in reasonable condition.

I was using a clean cloth mask every day with a spare in my bag with a pack of disposables in case. Its clearly not 100% but enough to make a difference.

If it made no difference the death rate should have stayed the same - it didn't. It skyrocketed by around 400%.

You're a petrified old man, eh!

Most people would have... and you think this because you want to believe it?

Since you're making up stats on the fly, what percentage of difference did it make?

How do you explain the death rate in China? There was a mask mandate after their zero-covid was lifted.


Quote:
Since you're making up stats on the fly,


Look it up yourself.

In the 12 months before the mandate ended roughly 2,000 Australians died of covid, in the following 12 months about 14,000 Australians died.The number is now at 19,000.

The red mark on the image is approximately when the restrictions were removed, on the left the number of people who died when masks were on, to the right the number of people who died after masks were removed. I didn't make this up check for yourself.


We had high vax rates when restrictions were removed.

It's pretty clear the vax doesn't work as well as big pharma claimed.

If the vax worked excess deaths would have flatlined they wouldn't increase.


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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Mask mandates didn't do anything
Reply #554 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 9:18pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 9:04pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:43pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:14pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 8:06pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 14th, 2023 at 7:46pm:
As pointed out they have a significant natural advantage on the more serious communicable diseases which gave them a huge jump start with covid. They already had the infrastructure in place and a population that knew what to do and were willing to do it.

No. That is official disinformation.

There is no conclusive evidence as to why South Africa and other African countries are doing well because government-run studies into the phenomenon have not been conducted, particularly where there's a risk that studies may indicate that vaccines have had a direct or contributory role in causing excess deaths.

There is certainly pressure on governments, healthcare providers, big pharma and big media to hold fast to the orthodoxy that whatever is causing excess deaths, it's not the vaccines.

It's reminiscent of China's so-called bat lady, Dr Shi Zhengli, who was a director of the Wuhan lab studies into gain-of-function research, insisting that wherever covid-19 came from, it did not come from the WIV.

Then she disappeared and has not been seen or heard of publicly for over 2 years.


Africa were dealing with an ebola outbreak when covid hit. They had infrastructure for testing communicable disease already in place and a decades long history of dealing with communicable diseases they had people trained to test and a community ready and willing to act responsibly. They had a jump start on the rest of the world.

Where did the DRC, Gabon, the Congo, Sudan and Uganda receive help with the ebola outbreak from (given there was no pandemic in 2014)?


The Covid outbreak was in 2014 ?

The world united to provide African nations with all the infrastructure and pharmaceuticals needed to manage ebola in 2014 and beyond.

The covid pandemic resulted in every country for itself first.
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