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The fallacy of the Greens (Read 35190 times)

thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #600 - Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm

lee wrote on Jun 7^th, 2023 at 2:20pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 7^th, 2023 at 1:13pm:

No, the world running on 50% renewables is certainly not a waste of man hours, after which the way to complete the job will be clear.

That is if there are enough resources for 50%. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Of course, but you don't sit around twiddling your thumbs wondering.

Quote:

And yet there is no ecological collapse, no extinction. Where are these occurring. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Oh dear ...the '6th great extinction' has started:
(google)
"Unlike previous extinction events caused by natural phenomena, the sixth mass extinction is driven by human activity, primarily (though not limited to) the unsustainable use of land, water and energy use, and climate change. Currently, 40% of all land has been converted for food production."

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You haven't even showed you have a salient point. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Dementia: we have to transition to renewables ASAP.

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Keen wouldn't know either. Dummy. Roll Eyes

And yet you do........(cough)......

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Exactly where has he said he will provide "near-zero cost of electricity for all". Everywhere there are large renewables has seen costs rise. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Nowhere is there anything near 50% continuous renewables power generation currently. But sunshine and wind are ....free.

And recall: we still need to spend $62 trillion for grid upgrade plus storage. Oops.

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And yet you can't cite the paper that says this. Dummy. Roll Eyes

You kindly cited it yourself....while quibbling about probabilities.

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Sheeple accept. Scientists are by nature sceptics. That is why we have advances in science - they question the status quo. Yours is simply a belief system. Gaia will provide. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Confused; the scientific consensus is we need to act to reduce CO2 emissions.

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Keen proved MMT with and accounting package. Grin

Yet macro-economics - studying the outcomes of the complexity of an almost infinite number economic transactions between parties (and individuals) is much wider than an accounting package relating to transactions between government and banks (in Keen's exercise).

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #601 - Jun 14^th, 2023 at 12:34pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

Of course, but you don't sit around twiddling your thumbs wondering.

You shouldn't start what you can't finish either. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

Oh dear ...the '6th great extinction' has started:

No it isn't.

"The 6th mass extinction hasn’t begun yet, study claims, but Earth is barreling toward it"

https://www.livescience.com/sixth-mass-extinction-underway

"But it's coming, believe us". Grin

Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

Dementia: we have to transition to renewables ASAP.

And nowhere have you shown why we "have to". Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

And yet you do........(cough)......

Well as good as you with your lack of knowledge of Basic Accounting, let alone Advanced Accounting and Economics. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

Nowhere is there anything near 50% continuous renewables power generation currently.

You are forgetting Germany that has more than enough renewables (on paper), except they don't work all the time. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

And recall: we still need to spend $62 trillion for grid upgrade plus storage. Oops.

Only IF we chase the Green rainbow of renewables. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

Confused; the scientific consensus is we need to act to reduce CO2 emissions.

As I have said MANY times, Consensus is politics not science. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

But you were the one said he proved it. I said it all depends on the underlying assumptions. Minsky can't prove anything. Dummy. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #602 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm

lee wrote on Jun 14^th, 2023 at 12:34pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 10:48pm:

Of course, but you don't sit around twiddling your thumbs wondering.

You shouldn't start what you can't finish either. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Of course we can finish the transition; the Chinese are building nuclear plants at a faster rate than anyone else, so if necessary we can join them....

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No it isn't.

"The 6th mass extinction hasn’t begun yet, study claims, but Earth is barreling toward it"

Quibbling over whether it has started or not?

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"But it's coming, believe us".

Correct, but even more urgent is the change to a circular ie, no waste, non-polluting economy (and don't mention CO2 as "pollution", confirming your low IQ...)

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And nowhere have you shown why we "have to". Dummy.

The IPCC has convinced the world we have to; and real economists have explained externalities (eg pollution) have to be priced.

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Well as good as you with your lack of knowledge of Basic Accounting, let alone Advanced Accounting and Economics.

My interest is in macro-economics, not micro. That Keen - using Misky accounting software - was able to prove govt. can finance itself without incurring debt, is a side issue; MMT economists already knew it.

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You are forgetting Germany that has more than enough renewables (on paper), except they don't work all the time. Dummy

The problem is the Germans decided to close their nuclear plants.

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Only IF we chase the Green rainbow of renewables

Er ....we ARE chasing it, which is why Labor won the last election (via Greens and Teals support).

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As I have said MANY times, Consensus is politics not science.

And politics says we have to go Green....

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But you were the one said he proved it. I said it all depends on the underlying assumptions. Minsky can't prove anything.

Addressed above; Keen considers he proved it; the thought of you disputing the fact with Keen makes me laugh.

Speaking of Keen: (from an email)

"Who’s to blame for the smoke that gave New York City the worst air quality in the world this June?

Economists.

Because they simply don’t understand what climate change means.

Rather than working out how to prevent it, they’ve argued that it’s trivial.

This is why we’ve done so little to address it, and why there are hundreds of fires in Canadian forests right now, with global temperatures at 1.2°C above pre-industrial levels.

A survey of economists who publish papers on climate change found that they believed that, if we hit 5°C over the next century, the rate of economic growth would fall by only 0.02%...

So rather than the economy growing at say 3% per year, it would grow by 2.98% per year.

That’s too small an effect to measure.

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #603 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 4:07pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Of course we can finish the transition; the Chinese are building nuclear plants at a faster rate than anyone else, so if necessary we can join them..

So NOT renewables then. Dummy. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Quibbling over whether it has started or not?

You were the one said it had. I just pointed one source saying it has happened yet. Do you want another saying there is NO 6th Mass Extinction Event? Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Correct, but even more urgent is the change to a circular ie, no waste, non-polluting economy (and don't mention CO2 as "pollution", confirming your low IQ...)

Sorry. But I don't believe. No waste? You going to eat the bones too? Dummy Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

The IPCC has convinced the world we have to; and real economists have explained externalities (eg pollution) have to be priced.

And nowhere does it point to where we "have to" The IPCC is an Inter GOVERNMENTSAL Panel. Once again nothing to do with Science. Real economists say many things, often diametrically opposed. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

My interest is in macro-economics, not micro.

To understand MAcro you have to understand Micro. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

That Keen - using Misky accounting software - was able to prove govt. can finance itself without incurring debt, is a side issue; MMT economists already knew it.

Once again Keen "proved" nothing, it depends on the underlying assumptions. MMT economists haven't "proved" it either. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

The problem is the Germans decided to close their nuclear plants.

Because renewables was the answer, except it wasn't. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Er ....we ARE chasing it, which is why Labor won the last election (via Greens and Teals support).

And yet everything on this post is about Nuclear not renewables. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

And politics says we have to go Green...

Politics are not proof of anything. Politics has got us in this mess by trying to choose winners in the energy sector. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Addressed above; Keen considers he proved it; the thought of you disputing the fact with Keen makes me laugh.

That Keen thinks he proved it is so laughable. Accounting packages "prove" what you want them to prove. It depends on the underlying assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

This is why we’ve done so little to address it, and why there are hundreds of fires in Canadian forests right now, with global temperatures at 1.2°C above pre-industrial levels.

Canada has a long history of wildfires. Dummy. Roll Eyes

"The recent wildfires occurred in the boreal forests of northern Quebec. Fire isn’t rare in that region. The ecology of these forests relies on fire for the release of seeds and forest health. Many of the major boreal fires occur during a narrow temporal window from mid-April through early June, just after the winter snow has melted and before grasses and other small plants grow, reducing flammability. During this short window, the dead vegetation from the previous year can dry out sufficiently to burn if there is an ignition source such as lightning or errant human activity."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadian-wildfires-climate-change-new-york-smoke-gl...

So what caused the fires? Warm weather? People? Lightning?

Warm weather doesn't start fires. Match - 600-800C. Temperature in Canada? A lot less. Dummy Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

That’s too small an effect to measure.

Yep. And still some people want to spend trillions of dollars on something with little effect. It is cheaper to adapt, but not with renewables. Dummy. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #604 - Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm

lee wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 4:07pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Of course we can finish the transition; the Chinese are building nuclear plants at a faster rate than anyone else, so if necessary we can join them..

So NOT renewables then. Dummy.

Er...there is enough uranium and plutonium to last thousands of years, given that the sun IS shining and the wind IS blowing somewhere on the globe, 24/7.

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You were the one said it had. I just pointed one source saying it has happened yet. Do you want another saying there is NO 6th Mass Extinction Event? Dummy. Roll Eyes

The rate of global deforestation alone is responsible for massive loss of species.

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Sorry. But I don't believe. No waste? You going to eat the bones too? Dummy Roll Eyes

No; bones make good compost.

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And nowhere does it point to where we "have to" The IPCC is an Inter GOVERNMENTSAL Panel. Once again nothing to do with Science.

the scientific consensus... oh never mind.

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Real economists say many things, often diametrically opposed. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Real orthodox neoclassical economists say many things, proving their orthodoxy is wrong. Unlike heterodox (MMT) economists.

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To understand MAcro you have to understand Micro. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Not so; eg, "there are are sufficient resources in the world to eradicate poverty"...no money-counting necessary (since money is created out of nothing). Treasuries need to become measurers of resources, not money.

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MMT economists haven't "proved" it either. Dummy. Roll Eyes

See above, reality doesn't need to be "proved".

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Because renewables was the answer, except it wasn't. Dummy. Roll Eyes

No; because they were scared off by the tsanami accident in Japan.

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And yet everything on this post is about Nuclear not renewables. Dummy. Roll Eyes

"This post" is part of this thread...oh dear...

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Politics are not proof of anything. Politics has got us in this mess by trying to choose winners in the energy sector. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Politics determines who is in power. And you are on the losing side . Enjoy.

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That Keen thinks he proved it is so laughable. Accounting packages "prove" what you want them to prove. It depends on the underlying assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

You debating Keen face to face? ROTFL.

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Canada has a long history of wildfires. Dummy. Roll Eyes

But NY suffering the worst pollution ever - from those fires - is not normal.

And heard on radio: yesterday, Beijing experienced its hottest day ever recorded.

Quote:

Yep. And still some people want to spend trillions of dollars on something with little effect. It is cheaper to adapt, but not with renewables. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Er ....Keen is exposing orthodox economists' denial of climate change, and their calls for politically-toxic carbon taxes to fix emissions, by underestimating the effects of those CO2 emissions.

So - in the light of all those answers, who is the "dummy"? ....

« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:54pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #605 - Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 3:35pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

Er...there is enough uranium and plutonium to last thousands of years, given that the sun IS shining and the wind IS blowing somewhere on the globe, 24/7.

There is enough uranium and plutonium. No need to worry about intermittent energy, with its lack of scale availability.
Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

The rate of global deforestation alone is responsible for massive loss of species.

You mean the Amazon, the not the "lungs of the world". Identify which species have been lost. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

No; bones make good compost.

They take too long to break down, that's why bones are continually recovered. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

the scientific consensus..

As I keep telling you Consensus is politics, not science. Therefore it is only a political expedience. There is no compelling reason to waste trillions of dollars on political expedience. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

Real orthodox neoclassical economists say many things, proving their orthodoxy is wrong.

And yet you continually fail to show "proof" of your favoured MMT. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

Not so; eg, "there are are sufficient resources in the world to eradicate poverty".

Are there? Perhaps you can post the link that proves it. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

See above, reality doesn't need to be "proved".

Oh dear the bloated blatherer again. Why not? It is not self evident. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

No; because they were scared off by the tsanami accident in Japan.

And yet Japan is in the process of building more nuclear. It was the tsunami that killed the old one. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

This post" is part of this thread...oh dear...

This post is what your latest sayings are. So nuclear instead of renewables. Well done. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

Politics determines who is in power.

And only that. So many politicians who have never had a real job. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

You debating Keen face to face? ROTFL.

I am debating you and you are losing handsomely. You don't even understand accounting. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

But NY suffering the worst pollution ever - from those fires - is not normal.

Of course it is, it depends on which way the wind blows. Dummy. Roll Eyes

"Smoke blanketing New York City evokes memories of 1966 ‘killer smog’"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/08/smoke-new-york-city-wildfire-ki...

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

And heard on radio: yesterday, Beijing experienced its hottest day ever recorded.

Wow. That UHI is a killer. Dummy. Grin

"The figure is half a degree higher than the station’s previous monthly record of 40.6C taken in June 1961 – the year China began keeping weather records – and second only to the 41.9C measured in July 1999, according to weather data."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/beijing-weather-hottest-june-day-s...

The hottest in 60 odd years. You really are a lightweight. Dummy. Grin

.
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

Er ....Keen is exposing orthodox economists' denial of climate change, and their calls for politically-toxic carbon taxes to fix emissions, by underestimating the effects of those CO2 emissions.

Who are these economists who say the climate doesn't change? Silly. But tell us what the science says about the effects of increasing CO2. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 2:49pm:

So - in the light of all those answers, who is the "dummy"? ...

You dummy. Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #606 - Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm

lee wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2023 at 3:35pm:

There is enough uranium and plutonium. No need to worry about intermittent energy, with its lack of scale availability.Dummy. Roll Eyes

But PV and wind are far cheaper to build, so the immediate task is to build those ASAP, while developing nuclear according to when/if absolutely necessary.

Quote:

You mean the Amazon, the not the "lungs of the world". Identify which species have been lost. Dummy. Roll Eyes

No I mean the world; but in fact Oz is quickly losing species:

(quick google)

"We don't have a moment to lose. Australia has the worst mammal extinction rate of any country in the world, and the catastrophic bushfires of 2019-20 impacted nearly 3 billion animals and have pushed many more of our precious wildlife on the fast-track towards extinction."

Quote:

They take too long to break down, that's why bones are continually recovered. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Cremation: instant fertilizer.

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As I keep telling you Consensus is politics, not science.

And you have lost the political argument, while weather catastrophes keep increasing.

Quote:

And yet you continually fail to show "proof" of your favoured MMT. Dummy. Roll Eyes

It's common sense for people who understand money (unlike mainstream economists), and doesn't need "proof".

Prof Keen

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/new

#542.

Quote:

Are there? Perhaps you can post the link that proves it. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Overcapacity in every industry - with companies and countries fighting for market access, proves it.

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Oh dear the bloated blatherer again. Why not? It is not self evident. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Not self-evdent to flat-earthers like you - who nevertheless claim 'natural" rights which don't exist in nature, ouch.

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And yet Japan is in the process of building more nuclear. It was the tsunami that killed the old one. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Dementia? We were examining why the Germans have shut down their nuclear plants.

Quote:

This post is what your latest sayings are. So nuclear instead of renewables. Well done. Wink

Crippled conservative brain, can't hold two ideas at once, and doesn't understand nuance: eg, as well as - not instead of - renewables.

Quote:

And only that. So many politicians who have never had a real job. Grin

Don't cry to me about your silly blind-leading the blind politics.

Quote:

I am debating you and you are losing handsomely. You don't even understand accounting. Dummy. Roll Eyes

More crippled brain stuff: I am saying Keen would make a fool of you in 2 seconds flat, re accounting.

Of course conservatives aren't capable of seeing the big picture - in this case macro economics, because they see the world as competitve individuals, not as the co-operative collective.

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Of course it is, it depends on which way the wind blows. Dummy. Roll Eyes

...clever. I'll pay that

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"Smoke blanketing New York City evokes memories of 1966 ‘killer smog’"

You just shot yourself in the foot: "the 2023 smoke was 'the worst ever' ".

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Wow. That UHI is a killer. Dummy. Grin

Yes, hottest recorded June temp., another nail in the coffin of your AGW-CO2 denial

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The hottest in 60 odd years. You really are a lightweight. Dummy. Grin

Read your own quote above, again.

Quote:

Who are these economists who say the climate doesn't change?

they are saying that even if the climate is changing due to AGW, the economic effects will be small.

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But tell us what the science says about the effects of increasing CO2. Dummy. Roll Eyes

I refer you to the IPClimateChange consensus of scientists.

Quote:

You dummy. Grin

Keep digging, but don't stand too close.....

« Last Edit: Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:21pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #607 - Jun 25^th, 2023 at 3:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

But PV and wind are far cheaper to build, so the immediate task is to build those ASAP, while developing nuclear according to when/if absolutely necessary.

No. Because of intermittency, they require backup. Whether that is Large scale battery, unproven, or Nuclear or fossil fuel. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

No I mean the world; but in fact Oz is quickly losing species:

Just how many species in the last 30 years? Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

"We don't have a moment to lose. Australia has the worst mammal extinction rate of any country in the world, and the catastrophic bushfires of 2019-20 impacted nearly 3 billion animals and have pushed many more of our precious wildlife on the fast-track towards extinction."

Oh "towards extinction". WWF doesn't even tell us which species are extinct. Just a blanket claim. Dummy. Roll Eyes

"All but one of the mammal extinctions is historic, with most having disappeared between the 1850s and 1950s."

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/mar/03/australia-confirms-extinction-of...

And NOTHING to do with deforestation in the last 30 years. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

Cremation: instant fertilizer.

"Cremated ashes can be used as fertilizer, but there are a few things to keep in mind. First, cremated ashes are high in alkalinity, so they should be used sparingly and mixed with other, more acidic materials. Second, cremated ashes may contain heavy metals that can be harmful to plants, so it is important to test the ashes before using them. Finally, because cremated ashes are sterile, they will not add any beneficial microorganisms to the soil."

Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

And you have lost the political argument, while weather catastrophes keep increasing.

You haven't even shown that weather catastrophes are increasing. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Floods - In summary there is low confidence in the human influence on the changes in high river flows on the global scale. Confidence is in general low in attributing changes in the probability or magnitude of flood events to human influence because of a limited number of studies and differences in the results of these studies, and large modelling uncertainties.

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.5.4

Droughts - There is medium confidence in the ability of ESMs to simulate trends and anomalies in precipitation deficits and AED, and also medium confidence in the ability of ESMs and hydrological models to simulate trends and anomalies in soil moisture and streamflow deficits, on global and regional scales

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.6.3.6

Cyclones - The SREX (Chapter 3) concluded that there is low confidence in observed long-term (40 years or more) trends in TC intensity, frequency, and duration

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.7

So the Physical Science Basis says you are wrong. Nothing surprising there. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

It's common sense for people who understand money (unlike mainstream economists), and doesn't need "proof".

And yet you said you (and Keen) provided 'proof". You don't even understand Basic Accounting, let alone Advanced Accounting and yet somehow understand Economics. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

Overcapacity in every industry - with companies and countries fighting for market access, proves it.

So overcapacity causes price rises, like in fossil fuels. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

Not self-evdent to flat-earthers like you - who nevertheless claim 'natural" rights which don't exist in nature, ouch.

What "natural" rights have I claimed. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

Dementia? We were examining why the Germans have shut down their nuclear plants.

Ah. So we weren't taking about Fukushima then. Roll Eyes

But Germany closed nuclear and went back to fossil fuel, because Energiewende couldn't hack it. And they now want to re-open Nuclear. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

Don't cry to me about your silly blind-leading the blind politics.

What a good little Maoist. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

I am saying Keen would make a fool of you in 2 seconds flat, re accounting.

And yet you don't understand any accounting. That is some fallacy you are promoting. Dummy. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

You just shot yourself in the foot: "the 2023 smoke was 'the worst ever' ".

Nope. "That year, was 1966. But measuring only started in 1970. Dummy. Roll Eyes

TBC

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #608 - Jun 25^th, 2023 at 3:23pm

cont.

"Burke, who was 11 in 1966, was in New York City for a family wedding. He recalls being holed up at the hotel most of the time because after just a few minutes outside, they would have to “wash pollution off your face and hands,” he said.

“I hadn’t seen anything like it in my life before or since,” he said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/08/smoke-new-york-city-wildfire-ki...

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

Yes, hottest recorded June temp., another nail in the coffin of your AGW-CO2 denial

Oh dear. You just don't understand Urban Heat Island Effect. The larger the population the larger the inherent temperature. And of course less airflow. All those concrete buildings heating up and retaining heat. Dummy. Roll Eyes

But tell me where I have denied AGW-CO2 effect? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

Read your own quote above, again.

So the hottest in 60 years. So tell us what the temperature was during the 1930's when there were high temperatures globally. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

they are saying that even if the climate is changing due to AGW, the economic effects will be small.

Yes. So why spend trillions of dollars for little economic effect. It is cheaper to provide A/C. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

I refer you to the IPClimateChange consensus of scientists.

So we know you don't do science. I will explain. In CO2 theory, increasing CO2 has a logarithmically decreasing effect. That means most of the warming occurred in the first 300ppm. Dummy. Roll Eyes

or this

So tell us the huge amount of warming. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 25^th, 2023 at 1:16pm:

Keep digging, but don't stand too close.....

Why? Are you going to break wind? Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #609 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 1:47pm

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/norway-s-quest-for-black-gold-from-used-car...

Norway's quest for 'black gold' from used car batteries

Story by AFP • Yesterday 3:24 pm

Industry leader Norway, where electricity is almost exclusively generated by renewable energies, is the uncontested world champion of zero-emission electric cars, with the latter accounting for more than 80 percent of new car registrations.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17268 Gender:	Re: The fallacy of the Greens Reply #610 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 2:08pm Norway, the country that exports Oil and Gas. The renewables from hydro.
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12368 Gender:	Re: The fallacy of the Greens Reply #611 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:21pm lee wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 2:08pm: Norway, the country that exports Oil and Gas. The renewables from hydro. That's why we will need a new global financial system, to manage the transition from coal and gas ASAP. FF exporters have to transition ASAP, along with everyone else.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #612 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:22pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:21pm:

lee wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 2:08pm:

Norway, the country that exports Oil and Gas. The renewables from hydro. Roll Eyes

That's why we will need a new global financial system, to manage the transition from coal and gas ASAP.

FF exporters have to transition ASAP, along with everyone else.

Bwian who is going to control this brand new global financial system?

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #613 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:47pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:22pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:21pm:

lee wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 2:08pm:

Norway, the country that exports Oil and Gas. The renewables from hydro. Roll Eyes

That's why we will need a new global financial system, to manage the transition from coal and gas ASAP.

FF exporters have to transition ASAP, along with everyone else.

Bwian who is going to control this brand new global financial system?

The people already gathered in various forums around the world examining how to deal with the crippling developing-nation debt crisis - and how to achieve a global transition - including those nations - to renewables ASAP, will decide on the control mechanism.

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #614 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 5:19pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:47pm:

You mean like those hail intolerant solar panels? Grin

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