Australian Politics Forum - Two more mass shootings

greggerypeccary

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #30 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:40pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:26pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 5:57pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 5:48pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 5:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 5:22pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 5:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 4:44pm:

anyone opposed to tightening gun laws in America has to be a bona fide moron

anyone who offers that as a solution is a bona fide moron because the chances that you could do a john howard style "buyback " in america is zero and there are ALWAYS going to be millions upon millions of guns.

acknowleding this, the answer is to improve the mental state of the citizens.

there is no other solution and morons like smith and pecca are just virtue signalling.

The defeatist attitude of cowards.

incorrect.

you post to virtue signal.
you have no interest in solutions because if you did you would propose them

Less guns, more checks.

Next!

How about this :

1. Exchange guns for cheques

They don't even have to hand any back.

Let the little micropenis crybabies keep the ones they already have, but make fewer and fewer available to fewer and fewer people in the future.

As more guns become available, and more people buy them, there will be more gun fatalities.

If less guns become available, and fewer people buy them, there will be a reduction in gun fatalities.

Year nine maths, innit?

Who exactly is manufacturing these guns?

^^^ That's the question I just asked hubby who's watching the news atm. Hubby reckons that all guns in the USA including those used by the military are produced by a few private firms.

Does that sound right to you?

While there are a significant number of gun manufacturers in the United States, total gun production is largely concentrated among a few large companies.

Three manufacturers were responsible for producing more than 58 percent of pistols made from 2008 to 2018: Smith & Wesson Corp., Sturm, Ruger & Co. Inc., and SIG SAUER Inc.

Similarly, three manufacturers were responsible for the production of more than 45 percent of rifles produced from 2008 to 2018: Remington Arms, Sturm, Ruger & Co. Inc., and Smith & Wesson.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 49687 Gender:	Re: Two more mass shootings Reply #31 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:41pm Judaism created their Nazi Frankenstein. Weylan Corp created Roy Batty, look what happened to Mr Weylan. American Gun manufacturers created their customers... maybe the same will happen to the Big Gun Corps?
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Dnarever

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #32 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:44pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:09pm:

sorry lisa but

americans love their guns the way we love our pets and kids.
its part of their identity.
they wont hand them back, no matter what cash is offered.

and what is the alternative.

go house to house with your own weapons and try to disarm them.

cant be done.

likewise mental health.

100 million americans are almost uninsured.
who is going to examine them?
the police?
that wont fly.
school teachers?
that wont fly.
the guy selling the guns?
that wont fly.

and how many kids and teenagers and adults are misfits anyway.
1/2 the country.
are the police going to respond everytime someone acts a bit deranged on facebook.
they would have time to do nothing else.

and sending cops out at midnight to knock on the door of an armed looney.
that wont go well.

amend the constitution.
cant be done

here is a sneaky solution .

put a massive tax on ammo.

nothing in the second amendment about that.

but , being realistic.
the only solution is to educate kids to be strong resilient confident adults
the opposite of what is being done at the moment.

kids taught they should be self loathing and seeing themselves as carbon dioxide emiting poxes on the planet are always going to be prone to nihilstic attacks on fellow citizens. it is fulfilling the ideology they have been taught

Quote:

americans love their guns the way we love our pets and kids.
its part of their identity.
they wont hand them back, no matter what cash is offered.

Nobody is really asking for them to hand their guns back but over 90% of Americans including republicans and gun owners want sensible gun regulations:

They want checks before all gun purchases. no complete safety check = no gun.

They don't want crazy people or people making serious threats to have access to guns.

They agree that military style assault weapons should be either banned or severely restricted.

They believe the age for assault weapons should be raised to 21 as a minimum measure.

They believe that red flag Laws should be implemented.

They want to see immunity for gun makers removed.

This can all be done without impact to the second amendment - even the current corrupt version of it.

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aquascoot

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #33 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:47pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:24pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:09pm:

sorry lisa but

americans love their guns the way we love our pets and kids.
its part of their identity.
they wont hand them back, no matter what cash is offered.

and what is the alternative.

go house to house with your own weapons and try to disarm them.

cant be done.

likewise mental health.

100 million americans are almost uninsured.
who is going to examine them?
the police?
that wont fly.
school teachers?
that wont fly.
the guy selling the guns?
that wont fly.

and how many kids and teenagers and adults are misfits anyway.
1/2 the country.
are the police going to respond everytime someone acts a bit deranged on facebook.
they would have time to do nothing else.

and sending cops out at midnight to knock on the door of an armed looney.
that wont go well.

amend the constitution.
cant be done

here is a sneaky solution .

put a massive tax on ammo.

nothing in the second amendment about that.

but , being realistic.
the only solution is to educate kids to be strong resilient confident adults
the opposite of what is being done at the moment.

kids taught they should be self loathing and seeing themselves as carbon dioxide emiting poxes on the planet are always going to be prone to nihilstic attacks on fellow citizens. it is fulfilling the ideology they have been taught

So are you saying I'm trying to resolve a longstanding US issue with an Aussie mindset? And that won't get me far?

You're probably right.

I have to say ... we Aussies are very different to Americans. And for that I'm very thankful.

its part of their identity.
most americans are probably pretty solid people.
they grow up around guns
its always been there
they shoot for recreation
they see themselves as self reliant and able to look after their family.

if you could get them all to hand in 400 million weapons at once you could disarm them but they will never ever disarm involuntarily and if governments try to impose it, they will be fulfilling the very thing that drives it.

as for mental health checks
that really has no chance of working as psychopaths are often charming and schizophrenics are usually harmless.

i do think they should stop media reporting it

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aquascoot

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #34 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:48pm

Importantly, the way that the media report an event can play a role in increasing the probability of imitation. When a mass shooting event occurs, there is generally extensive media coverage. This coverage often repeatedly presents the shooter’s image, manifesto, and life story and the details of the event,13 and doing so can directly influence imitation.

Social status is conferred when the mass shooter obtains a significant level of notoriety from news reports. Images displaying shooters aiming guns at the camera project an air of danger and toughness.14 Similarities between the shooter and others are brought to the surface through detailed accounts of the life of the shooter, with which others may identify. Fulfilled manifestos and repeated reports of body counts heap rewards on the violent act and display competence. Detailed play-by-play accounts of the event provide feedback on the performance of the shooter. All of these instances serve to create a model with sufficient detail to promote imitated mass shootings for some individuals.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5296697/

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #35 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:50pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:47pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:24pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:09pm:

sorry lisa but

americans love their guns the way we love our pets and kids.
its part of their identity.
they wont hand them back, no matter what cash is offered.

and what is the alternative.

go house to house with your own weapons and try to disarm them.

cant be done.

likewise mental health.

100 million americans are almost uninsured.
who is going to examine them?
the police?
that wont fly.
school teachers?
that wont fly.
the guy selling the guns?
that wont fly.

and how many kids and teenagers and adults are misfits anyway.
1/2 the country.
are the police going to respond everytime someone acts a bit deranged on facebook.
they would have time to do nothing else.

and sending cops out at midnight to knock on the door of an armed looney.
that wont go well.

amend the constitution.
cant be done

here is a sneaky solution .

put a massive tax on ammo.

nothing in the second amendment about that.

but , being realistic.
the only solution is to educate kids to be strong resilient confident adults
the opposite of what is being done at the moment.

kids taught they should be self loathing and seeing themselves as carbon dioxide emiting poxes on the planet are always going to be prone to nihilstic attacks on fellow citizens. it is fulfilling the ideology they have been taught

So are you saying I'm trying to resolve a longstanding US issue with an Aussie mindset? And that won't get me far?

You're probably right.

I have to say ... we Aussies are very different to Americans. And for that I'm very thankful.

its part of their identity.
most americans are probably pretty solid people.
they grow up around guns
its always been there
they shoot for recreation
they see themselves as self reliant and able to look after their family.

if you could get them all to hand in 400 million weapons at once you could disarm them but they will never ever disarm involuntarily and if governments try to impose it, they will be fulfilling the very thing that drives it.

Which US governments are asking people to hand in their guns?

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #36 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:58pm

Greggary provided a few manufacturers names.

I've looked up just one.

Take a good hard look at these arseholes everyone.

https://wri-irg.org/en/story/2019/war-profiteer-month-sig-sauer

This multinational Corp is making trillions out of killing people!

War profiteer of the month: SIG Sauer

Sig Sauer is a brand name used by two sister companies based in Germany and the USA. The company, originally based in Germany, was founded in 1976 from a partnership between two other arms companies - Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (SIG) and J.P. Sauer & Sohn of Germany. In 1985, Sig Sauer set up a US subsidiary, originally named SIGARMS, before changing its name to Sig Sauer Inc. in 2007. The US arm employs around 1,200 people.

Both companies specialise in the production of pistols and firearms – the US company claims that a third of police officers in the USA carry a Sig Sauer pistol. The company also sells to the American military; the US SEAL special forces teams have been armed with Sig Sauer handguns since 1989.

Advertising to civilians

The US company's website explicitly advertises a wide range of different pistols and rifles to law enforcement, military, and private security bodies, as well as accessories such as electro-optic sights, suppressors, slings, holsters, knives, magazines, and ammunition. One blog post on the website details the “history of the US Army’s sidearm” in a series of short videos. The post details how Sig Sauer won a US Army competition to develop a new handgun to replace the standard Beretta M9 with the development of the M17/18. The post ends with an advertising video for the civilian version, the P320-M17 pistol, drawing heavily on the fact it was “selected by the US Army”, and describes the weapon as having the “same innovation and versatility as the US Army’s M17 in a civilian version”.

The company’s website also features a tool for filtering to different weapons based on the “planned usage”. Selecting “home defense” immediately leads to a page prominently advertising the SIG MPX SBR submachine gun.

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« Last Edit: Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:03pm by Lisa Jones »

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #37 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:02pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:58pm:

Greggary provided a few manufacturers names.

I've looked up just one.

Take a good hard look at these arseholes everyone.

https://wri-irg.org/en/story/2019/war-profiteer-month-sig-sauer

This multinational Corp is making trillions out of killing people!

War profiteer of the month: SIG Sauer

Yep. Killing kids.

And it gets worse:

The gun industry in the United States is effectively unregulated. The laws governing the operation of these businesses are porous and weak. The federal agency charged with oversight of the industry—the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)—has been historically underfunded and politically vulnerable, making it nearly impossible for the agency to conduct consistent, effective regulatory oversight activities. Adding insult to injury, Congress has also imposed restrictions on how ATF can perform this regulatory work through restrictive policy riders on the agency’s budget. Congress has also eliminated some of the most useful tools for ensuring that gun industry actors operate their businesses in the best interests of consumers and are held accountable for harm caused by their products.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #38 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:06pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:02pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 6:58pm:

Greggary provided a few manufacturers names.

I've looked up just one.

Take a good hard look at these arseholes everyone.

https://wri-irg.org/en/story/2019/war-profiteer-month-sig-sauer

This multinational Corp is making trillions out of killing people!

War profiteer of the month: SIG Sauer

Yep. Killing kids.

And it gets worse:

The gun industry in the United States is effectively unregulated. The laws governing the operation of these businesses are porous and weak. The federal agency charged with oversight of the industry—the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)—has been historically underfunded and politically vulnerable, making it nearly impossible for the agency to conduct consistent, effective regulatory oversight activities. Adding insult to injury, Congress has also imposed restrictions on how ATF can perform this regulatory work through restrictive policy riders on the agency’s budget. Congress has also eliminated some of the most useful tools for ensuring that gun industry actors operate their businesses in the best interests of consumers and are held accountable for harm caused by their products.

And it gets even worse than that!

Advertising to civilians

The US company's website explicitly advertises a wide range of different pistols and rifles to law enforcement, military, and private security bodies, as well as accessories such as electro-optic sights, suppressors, slings, holsters, knives, magazines, and ammunition. One blog post on the website details the “history of the US Army’s sidearm” in a series of short videos. The post details how Sig Sauer won a US Army competition to develop a new handgun to replace the standard Beretta M9 with the development of the M17/18. The post ends with an advertising video for the civilian version, the P320-M17 pistol, drawing heavily on the fact it was “selected by the US Army”, and describes the weapon as having the “same innovation and versatility as the US Army’s M17 in a civilian version”.

The company’s website also features a tool for filtering to different weapons based on the “planned usage”. Selecting “home defense” immediately leads to a page prominently advertising the SIG MPX SBR submachine gun.

I have to find out who the shareholders are.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40773 Gender:	Re: Two more mass shootings Reply #39 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:09pm There has been a flurry of mass shootings. 14 so far this month. 'More guns' is evidently not working. Any other suggestions? https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 49687 Gender:	Re: Two more mass shootings Reply #40 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:11pm Television. The drug of the nation. Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation (in the United States of Unconsciouness). https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=television+-+disposible+heroes+of+hypcrisy&...
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Frank

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #41 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:15pm

The US has become a fragmented society. Diversity, far from being its strength, has brought about fragmentation, fear, distrust, loss of common ground where dialogue and solidarity used to live. Hence the huge increase in gun ownership and resistance to government control since the governments are not trusted and not seen as by the people, of the people, for the people, especially large cities.

There is not "one people, the American people" who could come together to solve their problems on the basis of some shared fundamental values. They have diluted such shared values for "diversity is our strength" to the point where they are tribalised and fragmented and are mutually incomprehensible to each other, politically, culturally.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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aquascoot

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Re: Two more mass shootings
Reply #42 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:34pm

Frank wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:15pm:

The US has become a fragmented society. Diversity, far from being its strength, has brought about fragmentation, fear, distrust, loss of common ground where dialogue and solidarity used to live. Hence the huge increase in gun ownership and resistance to government control since the governments are not trusted and not seen as by the people, of the people, for the people, especially large cities.

There is not "one people, the American people" who could come together to solve their problems on the basis of some shared fundamental values. They have diluted such shared values for "diversity is our strength" to the point where they are tribalised and fragmented and are mutually incomprehensible to each other, politically, culturally.

better said then i could say it, frank and this is the root of the problem.

without fixing the problem at its root cause, there will be no progress.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139586 Gender:	Re: Two more mass shootings Reply #43 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:35pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:09pm: There has been a flurry of mass shootings. 14 so far this month. 'More guns' is evidently not working. Any other suggestions? https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting Manufacture and import less guns, and make them harder to access for civilians.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40773 Gender:	Re: Two more mass shootings Reply #44 - Jun 6^th, 2022 at 7:42pm Americans have a very aggressive culture. They think if you win, you are right ; if you lose you are wrong. Look at their movies, the most violent person wins. Violence is glorified. It is a sick country
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