Australian Politics Forum - Noble conservatism

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47299 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #315 - Feb 17^th, 2024 at 5:23pm Ok. I'll give you that one.
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Frank

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #316 - Feb 17^th, 2024 at 6:28pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 14^th, 2024 at 11:21am:

Jasin wrote on Feb 14^th, 2024 at 11:04am:

Poverty is a scam. Poverty brutalises the world with over-population. Having children, when you can't afford to feed them is child abuse.

The question is: who is responsible for the entrenched poverty in the world?

There is NO entrenched poverty in the world. Countries that were poor have emerged out of it and countries that were rich sank into it.

"Entrenched poverty", your opening gambit, is bollocks.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #317 - Feb 18^th, 2024 at 11:04am

Frank wrote on Feb 17^th, 2024 at 6:28pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 14^th, 2024 at 11:21am:

Jasin wrote on Feb 14^th, 2024 at 11:04am:

Poverty is a scam. Poverty brutalises the world with over-population. Having children, when you can't afford to feed them is child abuse.

The question is: who is responsible for the entrenched poverty in the world?

There is NO entrenched poverty in the world. Countries that were poor have emerged out of it and countries that were rich sank into it.

"Entrenched poverty", your opening gambit, is bollocks.

I use the word "entrenched" to differentiate with self-imposed poverty.

ok.... so I again ask: " Who is responsible for the poverty in the world?".

Does the "noble conservative" have any ideas about the systemic failures leading to poverty?

eg, unequal access to land in poor countries, enforced welfare dependency in rich countries.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47299 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #318 - Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm Over-population is the prime cause of poverty. An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #319 - Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

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An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58036 Here Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #320 - Feb 18^th, 2024 at 6:07pm The current industrial model ensured that almost everyone exists on the verge of poverty.
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Jasin

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #321 - Feb 18^th, 2024 at 7:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

Quote:

An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

True. But over-population is also based on 'out-breeding the enemy' as well. It's a double-edged sword. So regardless, the true criminal here is 'over-populating'.
Blaming wealthier peoples for their over-population is their first base on the baseball field.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Frank

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #322 - Feb 18^th, 2024 at 8:30pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

Quote:

An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

So they have lotsa kids coz they don't have a tv.

Genius.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #323 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:04am

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 8:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

Quote:

An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

So they have lotsa kids coz they don't have a tv.
Genius.

No they have lot's of kids because the family has to support itself in subsistence farming.

That's why African women are still having many more children on average cf with European women who are down to less than replacement level.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #324 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:09am

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 7:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

Quote:

An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

True. But over-population is also based on 'out-breeding the enemy' as well. It's a double-edged sword. So regardless, the true criminal here is 'over-populating'.
Blaming wealthier peoples for their over-population is their first base on the baseball field.

Breeding for cannon fodder?

No one is blaming wealthy people for poverty; I'm blaming the IMF system, and mainstream economists.

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Frank

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #325 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:09am

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:04am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 8:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

Quote:

An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

So they have lotsa kids coz they don't have a tv.
Genius.

No they have lot's of kids because the family has to support itself in subsistence farming.

That's why African women are still having many more children on average cf with European women who are down to less than replacement level.

And why do Muslims and Africans in Europe and Australia have many more kiddies than Europeans? They aren't subsistence farmers.

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Jasin

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #326 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 10:41am

safety in numbers for the cowards, out-breed the enemy for the stupid.
It's basically when the males are ruled and dominated by the 'female' way for survival. A case of males 'hiding behind women and children' for their survival'. Ring a bell? Huh

The VIOLENCE happens when the males are in 'denial' of this (ego, etc).

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #327 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 11:10am

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:09am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:04am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 8:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

Quote:

An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

So they have lotsa kids coz they don't have a tv.
Genius.

No they have lot's of kids because the family has to support itself in subsistence farming.

That's why African women are still having many more children on average cf with European women who are down to less than replacement level.

And why do Muslims and Africans in Europe and Australia have many more kiddies than Europeans? They aren't subsistence farmers.

Cultural hangover - they WERE subsistence farmers back home.

And as for Oz (google):

"Over the 15 year period from 2005 to 2020, the birth rate for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander females has been consistently higher than non-Indigenous females."31 Oct 2023

ie, the group with the highest poverty rates in the land...

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12387 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #328 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 11:11am .
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Frank

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Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #329 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 11:53am

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:09am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:04am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 8:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

Quote:

An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

So they have lotsa kids coz they don't have a tv.
Genius.

No they have lot's of kids because the family has to support itself in subsistence farming.

That's why African women are still having many more children on average cf with European women who are down to less than replacement level.

And why do Muslims and Africans in Europe and Australia have many more kiddies than Europeans? They aren't subsistence farmers.

Cultural hangover - they WERE subsistence farmers back home.

so culture, then, not economics.

ta.

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