Australian Politics Forum - Noble conservatism

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12072 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #330 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 1:27pm .
Back to top	IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12072
Gender: male

Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #331 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 1:37pm

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 11:53am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:09am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:04am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 8:30pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 5:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 18^th, 2024 at 12:56pm:

Over-population is the prime cause of poverty.

You fail to distinguish cause and effect.

High birth rates are indeed correlated with poverty.

But if reduce poverty by increasing government services, birth rates and poverty rates fall.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0161893888900348

High fertility strains budgets of poor families, reducing available resources to feed, educate, and provide health care to children. Conversely, many characteristics of poverty contribute to high fertility—high infant mortality, lack of education for women, too little family income to “invest” in children, inequitable shares in national income, and inaccessibility of family planning. Experience in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Colombia, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cuba, and Costa Rica shows, however, that fertility can fall rapidly in low-income groups and countries when health care, education, and family planning services are made wisely available. It appears that adequate delivery and targeting of these services—services that most governments already play a major role in providing to their citizens—are a key to breaking the nexus between poverty and high fertility, and reducing the negative effects of both on the lives and prospects of children.

Quote:

An over-indulgent minority of wealthy come secondary to the cause of keeping others poor.

Correct, but the dominant economic system itself is the prime suspect in maintaining poverty.

So they have lotsa kids coz they don't have a tv.
Genius.

No they have lot's of kids because the family has to support itself in subsistence farming.

That's why African women are still having many more children on average cf with European women who are down to less than replacement level.

And why do Muslims and Africans in Europe and Australia have many more kiddies than Europeans? They aren't subsistence farmers.

Cultural hangover - they WERE subsistence farmers back home.

so culture, then, not economics.

ta.

(Talk about herding cats...)

Subsistence farming IS economics - part of the "culture".

And the culture of high birth rates persists until the Oz culture becomes the norm.

Naturlly you ignore the observations re high aboriginal birth rates, the result of being forced into poverty level welfare dependency.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12072 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #332 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 1:38pm .
Back to top	IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47226 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #333 - Feb 19^th, 2024 at 9:34pm Xena!!! I'm sorry GD, but....
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12072 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #334 - Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:07am .
Back to top	IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 43229
Gender: male

Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #335 - Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:16am

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 1:37pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2024 at 11:53am:

so culture, then, not economics.

ta.

(Talk about herding cats...)

Subsistence farming IS economics - part of the "culture".

And the culture of high birth rates persists until the Oz culture becomes the norm.

Naturlly you ignore the observations re high aboriginal birth rates, the result of being forced into poverty level welfare dependency.

So are Aborigines subsistence farmers?

And how long before the cultural ghetto is dissolved and 'Oz culture becomes the norm'? I mean economically they are in Oz so it can't be the economy of subsistence farming that makes them have so many kiddies.

It is the culture. Hegel was right, Marx was wrong.

Ta, warrior princess.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2024 at 7:06pm by Frank »

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12072 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #336 - Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:32am .
Back to top	IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12072
Gender: male

Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #337 - Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:49am

Frank wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:16am:

So are Aborigines subsistence farmers?

(sigh - the trials of the educator...)

No, but they were hunter gatherers; whereas the African immigrants escaping failed ex-colonial states often still have experience/memory of subsistence farmers' cultures.

Quote:

And how long before the cultural ghetto is dissolved and 'Oz culture becomes the norm'?

When Oz culture can end its adherence to orthodox economic madness, and employ everyone.

Quote:

I mean economically they are in Oz so it can't be the economy of subsistence farming that makes them have so many kiddies.

Correct, but I have already explained what IS making them have so many kiddies, ie the vicious welfare dependency milieu....

Quote:

It is the culture. Hegel was right, Marx was wrong.

Explained above, you evidently can't see the crossover between culture and economics.

Quote:

Ta, warrior princess.

She lived a long time ago, when economics was much simpler......

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12072 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #338 - Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:49am .
Back to top	IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 43229
Gender: male

Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #339 - Feb 20^th, 2024 at 11:22am

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:49am:

Frank wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:16am:

So are Aborigines subsistence farmers?

(sigh - the trials of the educator...)

No, but they were hunter gatherers; whereas the African immigrants escaping failed ex-colonial states often still have experience/memory of subsistence farmers' cultures.

Most of Africa was independent by the 1960s.

If ex-colonies fail after they demand and given independence then they have only themselves to blame. They wanted something they couldn't handle. A case of colonialism ended too soon.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12072 Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #340 - Feb 21^st, 2024 at 10:19am .
Back to top	IP Logged

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 57626 Here Gender:	Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke Reply #341 - Feb 21^st, 2024 at 10:26am Not sure that there is much less noble than conservatism. It's the most useless and among the most damaging of ism's there is.
Back to top	IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12072
Gender: male

Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #342 - Feb 21^st, 2024 at 10:27am

Frank wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 11:22am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:49am:

Frank wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:16am:

So are Aborigines subsistence farmers?

(sigh - the trials of the educator...)

No, but they were hunter gatherers; whereas the African immigrants escaping failed ex-colonial states often still have experience/memory of subsistence farmers' cultures.

Most of Africa was independent by the 1960s.

If ex-colonies fail after they demand and given independence then they have only themselves to blame. They wanted something they couldn't handle. A case of colonialism ended too soon.

Wrong, as someone pointed out yesterday, the Brits left a mess wherever they had imposed their rule; eg, India (creating Pakistan) and Palestine (creating Israel).

And white farmers still owned ill-gotten land in Rhodesia, when the Brits left, with no established ownership for the black inhabitants.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 21^st, 2024 at 11:39am by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 43229
Gender: male

Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #343 - Feb 21^st, 2024 at 11:08am

Dnarever wrote on Feb 21^st, 2024 at 10:26am:

Not sure that there is much less noble than conservatism.

It's the most useless and among the most damaging of ism's there is.

A very stupid thing to say.
Only a guppy like you would think such a stupid thing, a guppy for whom the world starts anew every time he turns in his tiny fish bowl.

Education is fundamentally conservative - it is about passing on a precious inheritance.
Also environmental conservation, thoughtful farming, building houses rather than wondering about.
Writing, musical annotation, libraries, history, memory - all are essentially about conserving and passing on an inheritance.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 43229
Gender: male

Re: Noble conservatism - Edmund Burke
Reply #344 - Feb 21^st, 2024 at 11:12am

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 21^st, 2024 at 10:27am:

Frank wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 11:22am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:49am:

Frank wrote on Feb 20^th, 2024 at 10:16am:

So are Aborigines subsistence farmers?

(sigh - the trials of the educator...)

No, but they were hunter gatherers; whereas the African immigrants escaping failed ex-colonial states often still have experience/memory of subsistence farmers' cultures.

Most of Africa was independent by the 1960s.

If ex-colonies fail after they demand and given independence then they have only themselves to blame. They wanted something they couldn't handle. A case of colonialism ended too soon.

Wrong, as someone pointed out yesterday, the Brits left a mess wherever they had imposed their rule; eg, India (creating Pakistan) and Palestine (creating Israel).

And white farmers still owned ill-gotten land in Rhodesia, when the Brits left, with no functioning economy.

They were asked to go and they obliged.

Basically all the countries that prematurely demanded the end of British rule are self- ****ed shiteholes, starting with Pakistan and Zimbabwe.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged