Australian Politics Forum - THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO

Linus

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THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:01pm

When governments do as they please, just follow their noses and spend their easy money from taxpayers in failure policies, shouldn't we take stock of their efficacy?

Are modern governments an anachronism? Are they a modern aristocratic class exacting money from their surfs and squandering it hither an thither? Does their constant interference and overreach cause more harms than goods?

Here is a case in point:

"$20 billion spend backfires

A decade-long effort involving tens of billions of taxpayer dollars has failed to solve our housing crisis. This is why....

Australian governments’ multi-billion dollar efforts to help first homebuyers enter the property market have been hampered by a glaring flaw, which has only pushed up house prices and left those in greatest need of assistance at an even worse disadvantage.

That was the key takeaway from fresh research published by the Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute this week.

Scholars from the University of New South Wales, University of Sydney and RMIT University, with funding from the federal, state and territory governments, examined the suite of first homebuyer assistance schemes in Australia and compared them to measures adopted in seven other nations: the United Kingdom, Germany, Ireland, the Netherlands, Canada, Finland and Singapore.

They found that Australia’s first homebuyer policies were “extremely one-sided”, with the overwhelming majority of programs focusing on demand instead of supply.

And by pumping up demand without simultaneously addressing supply, those programs have caused higher prices.

Some first homebuyers have benefited – mainly those who were already close to being able to afford houses on their own – as have existing homeowners and property investors.

However the bulk of would-be first homebuyers have been left behind..."

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/glaring-flaw-in-austr...

Decades with the best brains at their fingertips and they were apparently clueless about the dynamics of supply and demand.

What are your thoughts?

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Sophia

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #1 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:26pm

Linus wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:01pm:

When governments do as they please, just follow their noses and spend their easy money from taxpayers in failure policies, shouldn't we take stock of their efficacy?

Are modern governments an anachronism? Are they a modern aristocratic class exacting money from their surfs and squandering it hither an thither? Does their constant interference and overreach cause more harms than goods?

Here is a case in point:

"$20 billion spend backfires

A decade-long effort involving tens of billions of taxpayer dollars has failed to solve our housing crisis. This is why....

Australian governments’ multi-billion dollar efforts to help first homebuyers enter the property market have been hampered by a glaring flaw, which has only pushed up house prices and left those in greatest need of assistance at an even worse disadvantage.

That was the key takeaway from fresh research published by the Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute this week.

Scholars from the University of New South Wales, University of Sydney and RMIT University, with funding from the federal, state and territory governments, examined the suite of first homebuyer assistance schemes in Australia and compared them to measures adopted in seven other nations: the United Kingdom, Germany, Ireland, the Netherlands, Canada, Finland and Singapore.

They found that Australia’s first homebuyer policies were “extremely one-sided”, with the overwhelming majority of programs focusing on demand instead of supply.

And by pumping up demand without simultaneously addressing supply, those programs have caused higher prices.

Some first homebuyers have benefited – mainly those who were already close to being able to afford houses on their own – as have existing homeowners and property investors.

However the bulk of would-be first homebuyers have been left behind..."

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/glaring-flaw-in-austr...

Decades with the best brains at their fingertips and they were apparently clueless about the dynamics of supply and demand.

What are your thoughts?

When those first home buyer grants came in… sure it encouraged many to go forth and commit to buying a home… but this is where the grants started a boom in real estate… prices went up…as a unit builder we know… said if a $10K grant is made for buyers by the governgivernment … he just ups his unit prices $10K.

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10725 Gender:	Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO Reply #2 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:49pm Remove the first-home-buyers grant and just go back to the way it was, let the market sort it out
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO Reply #3 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 1:53pm If there was a genuine need, the government could easily reduce the cost of housing by cutting red tape and minimum standards, and councils freeing up land for development.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74217 Gender:	Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO Reply #4 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:34pm To even start to solve our housing crisis they need to completely overhaul negative gearing and capital gain tax rules. But don't hold your breath, after shortens losing an unlosable election with just some minor proposed changes, i doubt anyone will do anything other than tinker around the edges anytime soon ...
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Sophia

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #5 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:50pm

What hurts is that stamp duty! Ouch it smarts. That needs overhauling!
With house pricing being lower in past years it was still ouch … but with boom prices of now… it’s more than ouch…. and I think there should be a cap limit to what stamp duty should be….
I went to a auction in Mornington a few months back… as did 100 others for a sticky beak ….magnificent house with bay views… omg … well it sold for over $11 million … and Vic stamp duty … a whopping $698,739.40 !!!
That’s absolute robbery!

The average seems to be about $1.8 mil selling lately like hot cakes… S/D is $102,730.40… for nothing! Just a piece of paper changing ownership names.

It’s BS… the grabberment has had it so damned good for too long and still carry on about the deficit… and still want to tax us more!
I’m not impressed…at all!

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Sophia Gold Member Offline Posts: 8280	Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO Reply #6 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:51pm **
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74217 Gender:	Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO Reply #7 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:52pm Sophia wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:50pm: What hurts is that stamp duty! Ouch it smarts. That needs overhauling! they've started with it. Now you can opt to pay stamp duty in one lump sum like before, or pay land tax annually.
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Sophia

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #8 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:54pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:52pm:

Sophia wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:50pm:

What hurts is that stamp duty! Ouch it smarts. That needs overhauling!

they've started with it. Now you can opt to pay stamp duty in one lump sum like before, or pay land tax annually.

Yeah right… I heard that… sure they give with one hand and take with another hand.
I’d like to see the calculations of land tax… since it goes on council value….
And it’s levied every year to pay land tax for as long as you live in that house. Whereas stamp duty is a one of payment… but… there’s a difference between the devil and deep blue sea?

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John Smith

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #9 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:01pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:54pm:

Yeah right… I heard that… sure they give with one hand and take with another hand.

you want the govt. to provide services? they need taxes to pay for those services.

Sophia wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:54pm:

And it’s levied every year to pay land tax for as long as you live in that house.

not just for as long as you live in that house, but for as long as anyone lives in that house from that point on. Once you opt for land tax on a house, it can never go back the other way, no matter how many times it's sold

Irrespective of what options they put, the amounts of tax needs to be adjusted. Where they used to collect 10 - 15k per house on a sale, now they collect 50 - 100k ... it's ridiculous.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Sophia

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #10 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:16pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:01pm:

Sophia wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:54pm:

Yeah right… I heard that… sure they give with one hand and take with another hand.

you want the govt. to provide services? they need taxes to pay for those services.

Sophia wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 2:54pm:

And it’s levied every year to pay land tax for as long as you live in that house.

not just for as long as you live in that house, but for as long as anyone lives in that house from that point on. Once you opt for land tax on a house, it can never go back the other way, no matter how many times it's sold

Irrespective of what options they put, the amounts of tax needs to be adjusted. Where they used to collect 10 - 15k per house on a sale, now they collect 50 - 100k ... it's ridiculous.

It’s the way money is managed or mismanaged. It seems the strong intent is to be in debt forever. I’m still not impressed.

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John Smith

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #11 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:25pm

Sophia wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:16pm:

It’s the way money is managed or mismanaged. It seems the strong intent is to be in debt forever. I’m still not impressed.

there's a lot of waste in govt. spending. Cutting staff and then hiring the same number of people using employment agencies that then cost you more, or paying consultants that cost you 5 times what it would have cost you to employ someone full time, is just some examples

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bias_2012

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #12 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:28pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:01pm:

you want the govt. to provide services? they need taxes to pay for those services.

That might work in the big cities, but not in the bush necessarily. Values are low out here, which means stamp duty is also low, which in turn means very little to spend on services. That's why schools are few and far between and many miles away for parents to drops kids off

Same with hospitals, get real sick, and you could find yourself being transported to a hospital hundreds of Ks away, literally

Everything these days is a bit if a joke - bring on the Republic so we can get it all sorted out

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freediver

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #13 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:30pm

I'm pretty sure the land and sales taxes would keep the prices down.

Quote:

That's why schools are few and far between and many miles away for parents to drops kids off

No, schools are far between because the students are far between. You will find there are far more schools per student in rural areas. You cannot expect to have the same services as the city without putting up with all the people.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Linus

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Re: THE GREAT HOUSING FIASCO
Reply #14 - Jul 10^th, 2022 at 3:36pm

Without going into any length, and not to derail the current discussion, I'd prefer that the whole taxation system gets scuttled and rolled over into an automated payment transactions tax.

That is, all current taxes at all levels of government get nixed and rolled over into this one transactions tax. And all tiers of government would be funded by it. Such tax would be automatically and anonymously deducted and transferred to government coffers in real-time as you make an electronic transaction-receiving or spending. This can be as low as a fraction of cent per dollar on each transaction. Over 90% of income and expenditure is electronic these days. And with a few tweaks, it would be 100% or very close to it.

This tax would be unobtrusive, broad-based,would free up a vast amount of resources tied up in administration and compliance, would stop governments using taxation as a political football, and frankly make everyone's life a lot easier.

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