Australian Politics Forum - Early America 1565-1700

Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10766 Gender:	Early America 1565-1700 Jul 15^th, 2022 at 1:55am Interesting 18min video about who landed where and when, and who survived and who didn't
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #1 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am

Another fun fact about that period (and extended until the loss of the American colonies), was that it was a dumping ground from British convicts. Almost immediately after the loss of the colonies, the British set about looking for a new dumping ground.

They quickly found one, of course, in the new colony of New South Wales.

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: Early America 1565-1700 Reply #2 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:44am I had an ancestor at Jamestown Colony. Clearly, he survived. The Dutch once loomed large, even after America became a republic. President Martin Van Buren's first language was Dutch, not English, and the Dutch ruled the upper classes of NYC well into the 19th century.
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AiA

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #3 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:45am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am:

Another fun fact about that period (and extended until the loss of the American colonies), was that it was a dumping ground from British convicts. Almost immediately after the loss of the colonies, the British set about looking for a new dumping ground.

They quickly found one, of course, in the new colony of New South Wales.

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

Georgia was that North American dumping ground.

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AusGeoff

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #4 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 9:07am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am:

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

I did some searching, and I couldn't find anything illustrating this. I can
understand the connection between the English settling in both the US
Eastern coast and New South Wales and transporting their idioms with them,
but I couldn't find any evidential examples of Appalachian/Australian slang.

Any links?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #5 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 9:14am

AiA wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:44am:

I had an ancestor at Jamestown Colony. Clearly, he survived.

The Dutch once loomed large, even after America became a republic. President Martin Van Buren's first language was Dutch, not English, and the Dutch ruled the upper classes of NYC well into the 19th century.

That explains the Vanderbilts and the Stuyvesants.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #6 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 9:20am

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 9:07am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am:

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

I did some searching, and I couldn't find anything illustrating this. I can
understand the connection between the English settling in both the US
Eastern coast and New South Wales and transporting their idioms with them,
but I couldn't find any evidential examples of Appalachian/Australian slang.

Any links?

It was something that Joe Bageant (an Appalachian-descent writer) commented on when interviewed during his Australian visit. He recognised the Australian broad accent with its slang as similar in its style to Appalachian vernacular within its Scots-Irish (Northern Irish) vernacular.

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Bias_2012

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #7 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:09am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 9:20am:

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 9:07am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am:

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

I did some searching, and I couldn't find anything illustrating this. I can
understand the connection between the English settling in both the US
Eastern coast and New South Wales and transporting their idioms with them,
but I couldn't find any evidential examples of Appalachian/Australian slang.

Any links?

It was something that Joe Bageant (an Appalachian-descent writer) commented on when interviewed during his Australian visit. He recognised the Australian broad accent with its slang as similar in its style to Appalachian vernacular within its Scots-Irish (Northern Irish) vernacular.

There's a bit of reading about the Scot-Irish in this link ...

https://blueridgemountainstravelguide.com/appalachian-culture-and-history/

I was searching for settlers other than English and Europeans, and perhaps finding Irish and Scots, which would explain the similar accent to ours. They were there in numbers so I suppose their accent was always going to differ from other colonies up along the American east coast

The nickname "Hillbillies" was derived from "Billyboys" in the UK, they were supporters of William of Orange, the protestant King of Scotland, England, and Ireland, who was affectionately known as “King Billy” among the Scots.

The Cherokee owned slaves? That's a surprise ...

Elite whites and Cherokee people alike held Africans in enslavement in southern Appalachia

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FutureTheLeftWant

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #8 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:21am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am:

Another fun fact about that period (and extended until the loss of the American colonies), was that it was a dumping ground from British convicts. Almost immediately after the loss of the colonies, the British set about looking for a new dumping ground.

They quickly found one, of course, in the new colony of New South Wales.

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

A lot of which was valid English and just never evolved

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #9 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:33am

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:21am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am:

Another fun fact about that period (and extended until the loss of the American colonies), was that it was a dumping ground from British convicts. Almost immediately after the loss of the colonies, the British set about looking for a new dumping ground.

They quickly found one, of course, in the new colony of New South Wales.

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

A lot of which was valid English and just never evolved

No, it was largely a consciously produced sublanguage created by the criminal underclasses so they could speak freely without their betters knowing what they were talking about.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #10 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:36am

Bias_2012 wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:09am:

The Cherokee owned slaves? That's a surprise ...

Elite whites and Cherokee people alike held Africans in enslavement in southern Appalachia

Yes. Not only did they own slaves but, in 1865 after the 13th amendment was ratified, those in the Indian territories (which were not subject to the US constitution) kept them until their territories were subsumed into the US.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #11 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:41am

Bias_2012 wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:09am:

I was searching for settlers other than English and Europeans, and perhaps finding Irish and Scots, which would explain the similar accent to ours.

Yes, they are both slang-filled, derived from the vernacular of the British criminal and underclasses, and nasal in their pronunciation.

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AusGeoff

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #12 - Jul 15^th, 2022 at 10:43pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 9:20am:

AusGeoff wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 9:07am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am:

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

I did some searching, and I couldn't find anything illustrating this. I can
understand the connection between the English settling in both the US
Eastern coast and New South Wales and transporting their idioms with them,
but I couldn't find any evidential examples of Appalachian/Australian slang.

Any links?

It was something that Joe Bageant (an Appalachian-descent writer) commented on when interviewed during his Australian visit. He recognised the Australian broad accent with its slang as similar in its style to Appalachian vernacular within its Scots-Irish (Northern Irish) vernacular.

Thanks mate.

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AiA

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Re: Early America 1565-1700
Reply #13 - Jul 16^th, 2022 at 9:45pm

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 11:21am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2022 at 8:26am:

Another fun fact about that period (and extended until the loss of the American colonies), was that it was a dumping ground from British convicts. Almost immediately after the loss of the colonies, the British set about looking for a new dumping ground.

They quickly found one, of course, in the new colony of New South Wales.

It should be no surprise that Australian underclass slang bears a striking resemblance to Appalachian and white trash underclasses' vernacular of the southern states of the US.

A lot of which was valid English and just never evolved

Future has a point: certain aspects of English continued to evolve in the UK but hit a deadend in North America

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42136	Re: Early America 1565-1700 Reply #14 - Jul 16^th, 2022 at 10:37pm It appears the Americans are Royalists at heart, "Charles the first was assassinated"... No, he was executed by the rightful Government of the day!
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