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Full Employment abandoned. (Read 2021 times)
Frank
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Re: Full Employment abandoned.
Reply #30 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:30am
 
Casuals - now that the goalposts are shifted by ratty on uppers:


While part-time employment encompasses a range of actual hours worked, part-time employees work an average of 17 hours per week. More than half of Australia's part-time workers are casually employed, compared with 10 per cent of full-time workers. Casual employment is defined here as employment with no paid holiday or sick leave. Perhaps somewhat surprisingly given the continued upward trend in the part-time employment share, the share of casual employees in the workforce has been relatively stable since the 1990s at around 20 per cent. The share of independent contractors working part time is around 40 per cent. Independent contractors own their own business and are contracted to perform services by a client; they represent close to 10 per cent of employment.

Relative to other age groups, older workers (particularly those aged 55 years and over) have the strongest preference for working part-time hours. It may be that older workers take on a part-time job (and, increasingly, casual arrangements) as a transition between the role they had for most of their working life and retirement. Older workers also cite caring for relatives and illnesses or disabilities as reasons for working part time. In addition, an older worker's decision to work part-time hours can be influenced by access to, and the level of, pensions and superannuation.

Data from the HILDA Survey suggest that, on average, a little less than 20 per cent of part-time workers switch to full-time employment each year. In contrast, less than 10 per cent of full-time workers switch to part-time work on average each year. As previously mentioned, many young people combine part-time work and study, while unemployed workers more commonly transition to part-time (particularly casual) jobs rather than full-time work. This provides some evidence that part-time work can be used as a stepping stone into full-time employment.

https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2017/sep/3.html

See also
Why there's more jobs and fewer applicants than ever before
https://www.savings.com.au/news/more-jobs-than-ever-before
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FutureTheLeftWant
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Re: Full Employment abandoned.
Reply #31 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:33am
 
Frank wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:30am:
Casuals - now that the goalposts are shifted by ratty on uppers:


While part-time employment encompasses a range of actual hours worked, part-time employees work an average of 17 hours per week. More than half of Australia's part-time workers are casually employed, compared with 10 per cent of full-time workers. Casual employment is defined here as employment with no paid holiday or sick leave. Perhaps somewhat surprisingly given the continued upward trend in the part-time employment share, the share of casual employees in the workforce has been relatively stable since the 1990s at around 20 per cent. The share of independent contractors working part time is around 40 per cent. Independent contractors own their own business and are contracted to perform services by a client; they represent close to 10 per cent of employment.

Relative to other age groups, older workers (particularly those aged 55 years and over) have the strongest preference for working part-time hours. It may be that older workers take on a part-time job (and, increasingly, casual arrangements) as a transition between the role they had for most of their working life and retirement. Older workers also cite caring for relatives and illnesses or disabilities as reasons for working part time. In addition, an older worker's decision to work part-time hours can be influenced by access to, and the level of, pensions and superannuation.

Data from the HILDA Survey suggest that, on average, a little less than 20 per cent of part-time workers switch to full-time employment each year. In contrast, less than 10 per cent of full-time workers switch to part-time work on average each year. As previously mentioned, many young people combine part-time work and study, while unemployed workers more commonly transition to part-time (particularly casual) jobs rather than full-time work. This provides some evidence that part-time work can be used as a stepping stone into full-time employment.

https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2017/sep/3.html

See also
Why there's more jobs and fewer applicants than ever before
https://www.savings.com.au/news/more-jobs-than-ever-before


*looks out the window*

It's not 2017, mate.  Casual jobs have exploded

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John Smith
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Re: Full Employment abandoned.
Reply #32 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 12:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 9:36pm:
Actual full employment is a bad idea.



Not to those who are unemployed
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Frank
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Reply #33 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 12:43pm
 
FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:33am:
Frank wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:30am:
Casuals - now that the goalposts are shifted by ratty on uppers:


While part-time employment encompasses a range of actual hours worked, part-time employees work an average of 17 hours per week. More than half of Australia's part-time workers are casually employed, compared with 10 per cent of full-time workers. Casual employment is defined here as employment with no paid holiday or sick leave. Perhaps somewhat surprisingly given the continued upward trend in the part-time employment share, the share of casual employees in the workforce has been relatively stable since the 1990s at around 20 per cent. The share of independent contractors working part time is around 40 per cent. Independent contractors own their own business and are contracted to perform services by a client; they represent close to 10 per cent of employment.

Relative to other age groups, older workers (particularly those aged 55 years and over) have the strongest preference for working part-time hours. It may be that older workers take on a part-time job (and, increasingly, casual arrangements) as a transition between the role they had for most of their working life and retirement. Older workers also cite caring for relatives and illnesses or disabilities as reasons for working part time. In addition, an older worker's decision to work part-time hours can be influenced by access to, and the level of, pensions and superannuation.

Data from the HILDA Survey suggest that, on average, a little less than 20 per cent of part-time workers switch to full-time employment each year. In contrast, less than 10 per cent of full-time workers switch to part-time work on average each year. As previously mentioned, many young people combine part-time work and study, while unemployed workers more commonly transition to part-time (particularly casual) jobs rather than full-time work. This provides some evidence that part-time work can be used as a stepping stone into full-time employment.

https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2017/sep/3.html

See also
Why there's more jobs and fewer applicants than ever before
https://www.savings.com.au/news/more-jobs-than-ever-before


*looks out the window*

It's not 2017, mate.  Casual jobs have exploded



Really??  By how much? The rate was around 20% since the 1990s until 2017, the report's date. What is it in 2022??   If you think the rate exploded since 2017 you must know what it is.  Go on, tell us.

"I know - very big".  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


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Re: Full Employment abandoned.
Reply #34 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 12:47pm
 
Frank wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 12:43pm:
\
Really??  By how much? The rate was around 20% since the 1990s until 2017, the report's date. What is it in 2022??   If you think the rate exploded since 2017 you must know what it is.  Go on, tell us.

"I know - very big".  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy




I love how utterly brain dead you are... It's beautiful

Over the period from 1992 to 2013, male casual employment increased at an annual average rate of 4.0 per cent—twice that of females at 2.0 per cent.

Your claim is a lie from the start Smiley

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Reply #35 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 1:19pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 11:49pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 10:55pm:
Not a bad idea that full employment - for those trying to get a leg-up into the workforce and future prosperity and for the nation as well, given that it would not have to sustain them for life.

High unemployment is totally stupid for any economy.... nobody wins but the parasites sucking the life blood from nations while hiding in tax havens..... tax everything in and out of tax havens NOW!

Anyone else notice how 'unemployment rate' went down once Covid restrictions eased and after a prolonged period of no mass immigration?  Anyone?  Do we actually need all those people to fill in empty rooms in rentals to feed the already fat and the flood the jobs market and create 'needs' for governments etc to employ those who speak the lingo and know the culture, regardless of all other factors?

The cost of living is through the roof due to excessive competition for limited resources in HOMING (as opposed to housing), for jobs, and for genuine opportunities with a future for Australians NOW!

We don't need more people - we need a better road ahead planned and funded.... I've given you options times many.... when will you listen?


Dick Smith spoke a lot of sense several years back when he pointed to the impossibility of continuous increase in population to grow the economy.

The demands on the Murray's resources are already greater than the river's capacity.


I recall David Suzuki was talking about over population also… saud something like Australia can sustain 17-18 million people.
Yet… which former PM was it that said “we believe in a BIG Australia of 50 million people!”
Geez  Shocked
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Frank
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Reply #36 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 1:58pm
 
FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 12:47pm:
Frank wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 12:43pm:
\
Really??  By how much? The rate was around 20% since the 1990s until 2017, the report's date. What is it in 2022??   If you think the rate exploded since 2017 you must know what it is.  Go on, tell us.

"I know - very big".  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy




I love how utterly brain dead you are... It's beautiful

Over the period from 1992 to 2013, male casual employment increased at an annual average rate of 4.0 per cent—twice that of females at 2.0 per cent.

Your claim is a lie from the start Smiley



So to what rate has casual employment 'exploded' since the 20 % rate in 2017??


Why don't you just tell us, instead of slipping and sliding like a twitching ratty on ice? 

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Re: Full Employment abandoned.
Reply #37 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 2:55pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 5:21am:
demographic change.

we are going to run out of young people.


Just to confirm,  the currency-issuing government needn't (can't) run out of money (see MMT) ....so a  post labour-intensive, robot-enhanced manufacturing, AI and IT  enabled economy will do just fine.  And since there is always plenty of useful work to be done, full-employment can be guaranteed by judicious creation of jobs in both the non-market, public (social) and private market (for profit) sectors. 

But you are right -  people need to take responsibility for their own health, so the elderly don't end up   draining the community's resources in miserable ill-heath near the end of life.

Quote:
without a functional economy, all the things that people expect albo or scomo to pay for evaporate.


Addressed above. Mobilization of the community's resources on behalf of R&D, good housing, and healthy living for all, instead of wasting resources on junk, health-destroying, profit-driven consumerism, will be a necessary change, as populations begin to reduce as they must, in an overcrowded world with finite resources.

Quote:
you should train hard to build personal strength.
you will certainly need it


Yes - addressed above.
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Reply #38 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 3:20pm
 
Frank wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 1:58pm:
So to what rate has casual employment 'exploded' since the 20 % rate in 2017??
Why don't you just tell us, instead of slipping and sliding like a twitching ratty on ice? 


The workforce stats.  in the last five years are of course very challenging to pin down - we have just emerged from a global pandemic.

But are you creating a red herring with your  casual work narrative? Certainly, consistently higher unemployment compared with 1946 -1974 has been accompanied by increasing precarity of employment since the 80's.   

Casual employment can be voluntary; underemployment, which has been consistently high since the GFC,  is involuntary, by definition.

Chifley was able to create real full employment after 1946, continued by Menzies, as outlined in the OP.

Now many young people are facing mickey mouse gig economy jobs...


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Re: Full Employment abandoned.
Reply #39 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 8:51pm
 
FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:12am:
freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 11:10am:
But you are afraid to post it because the truth would make you look silly?


Oh, sweeetheart.  I could never look sillier than you


Of course not - you are in a category of your own.... sort of the trans-intellectual type - stuck somewhere between mental morbidity and genius and awaiting surgical or chemical intervention to reassign your intellect....
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Reply #40 - Jul 19th, 2022 at 9:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 9:36pm:
Actual full employment is a bad idea. It would be like having no rental houses on the market.

Rubbish.

Firstly, it's a false analogy. It is MUCH easier to issue foreign work visas than it is to bring empty houses in from overseas.

Secondly, state-mandated involuntary unemployment is FAR WORSE than full employment. The burden of involuntary unemployment is NOT shared equally, and anyone trying to get back into the workforce experiences enormous discrimination.

The burden of involuntary unemployment needs to be shared more equitably.

For example, any company layoffs should be by lottery. Anyone who has been out of work for six months or more in the past five years would be excluded from the redundancy lottery. The directors ordering the sackings would all be included in a separate lottery pool and directors are also made redundant in the same proportion as workers, with a minimum of one to be axed.

Anyone drawn in the redundancy lottery is made redundant with no redundancy pay. No exceptions.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Reply #41 - Jul 20th, 2022 at 1:34am
 
Bam wrote on Jul 19th, 2022 at 9:07pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2022 at 9:36pm:
Actual full employment is a bad idea. It would be like having no rental houses on the market.

Rubbish.

Firstly, it's a false analogy. It is MUCH easier to issue foreign work visas than it is to bring empty houses in from overseas.

Secondly, state-mandated involuntary unemployment is FAR WORSE than full employment. The burden of involuntary unemployment is NOT shared equally, and anyone trying to get back into the workforce experiences enormous discrimination.

The burden of involuntary unemployment needs to be shared more equitably.

For example, any company layoffs should be by lottery. Anyone who has been out of work for six months or more in the past five years would be excluded from the redundancy lottery. The directors ordering the sackings would all be included in a separate lottery pool and directors are also made redundant in the same proportion as workers, with a minimum of one to be axed.

Anyone drawn in the redundancy lottery is made redundant with no redundancy pay. No exceptions.


Good work!
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Reply #42 - Jul 20th, 2022 at 12:42pm
 
Ben Chifley -

"He foreshadowed that taxes would need to be maintained: 'after the war, to save ourselves from inflated costs and prices, and to distribute equitably the additional wealth which full employment brings, we must expect fairly heavy tax rates ... higher than before the war.’ 62 By 1944, however, he was warning 'taxation is so high that it is impracticable to obtain any further contribution from this source."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281979829_Ben_Chifley_the_true_believer


Edit: "It would not create work for work’s sake, but drive increases in productivity to create meaningful jobs that made a social contribution. Work would be dignified – and socially recognised. The power of big business to use the threat of unemployment to discipline labour (as had taken place in the 1930s) would be curtailed. Labour would be treated as more than a mere commodity.

It was the basis of a new era of prosperity. In the 1950s and 1960s GDP grew annually by 2%, and then 3%, while unemployment remained beneath 3%."

https://www.chifley.org.au/in-depth/the-curtin-government-and-full-employment/
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2022 at 2:14pm by lee »  
 
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Reply #43 - Jul 20th, 2022 at 1:47pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 12:42pm:
Ben Chifley -

"He foreshadowed that taxes would Ben Chifley: the true believer need to be maintained: 'after the war, to save ourselves from inflated costs and prices, and to distribute equitably the additional wealth which full employment brings, we must expect fairly heavy tax rates ... higher than before the war.’ 62 By 1944, however, he was warning 'taxation is so high that it is impracticable to obtain any further contribution from this source."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281979829_Ben_Chifley_the_true_believer


Edit: "It would not create work for work’s sake, but drive increases in productivity to create meaningful jobs that made a social contribution. Work would be dignified – and socially recognised. The power of big business to use the threat of unemployment to discipline labour (as had taken place in the 1930s) would be curtailed. Labour would be treated as more than a mere commodity.

It was the basis of a new era of prosperity. In the 1950s and 1960s GDP grew annually by 2%, and then 3%, while unemployment remained beneath 3%."

https://www.chifley.org.au/in-depth/the-curtin-government-and-full-employment/


Can you correct the top line there?  ie remove the highlighted words in the top line. 

Note: Chifley had observed the misery of continuous 10% unemployment  in the inter-war years, hence his earlier comment re the need for higher taxes.  But by 1944 the cost of the war was sky-high, hence the seeming reversal of the earlier statement on tax.

In any case both he and Menzies succeeded in ushering a post war environment of high growth, moderate taxes and real full employment  (ie <2%, and no underemployment), via Keynesian deficit spending.
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2022 at 2:00pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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lee
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Reply #44 - Jul 20th, 2022 at 2:15pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20th, 2022 at 1:47pm:
But by 1944 the cost of the war was sky-high, hence the seeming reversal of the earlier statement on tax.


And after the war? Roll Eyes

Edit:

" In order to meet the needs of the war economy 20,000 soldiers were released from the Australian Army in October 1943. Further reductions took place in August 1944 when another 30,000 soldiers and 15,000 personnel from the Royal Australian Air Force were discharged. In mid-1945 the Government implemented a policy in which service men and women who had completed five years of service, including at least two years outside Australia, could volunteer for discharge."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demobilisation_of_the_Australian_military_after_Wo...
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2022 at 2:20pm by lee »  
 
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