Frank wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 7:14pm:


Wow - that is one smart parrot...

But I'm sorry to have to inform you - AGAIN, as is often the case when you lack the capacity to debate the issues -

.......that is not debate.....

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 5:00pm:


yes, so it seems.

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No more division and exclusion?

Well, political division is part and parcel of adversarial democracies (roughly 50/50 division in fact, sometimes reaching hyper-partisan levels) ...; and economic exclusion is practiced everywhere eg private school admission, exclusion based on ability to pay.

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Harmless enough, surely; why should you be concerned?

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I'll give you the benefit of a doubt that you support higher wages for 'feminized ' occupations (age care, child care).

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An ignorant comment; 1 million Australians - black and non-black - are permanently sacrificed on the unemployment altar of false NAIRU neoliberal dogma.

"refuse to help themselves" is moot.

The consequences for black communities are horrific, given the higher rates of unemployment in black communities.   

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Pass.....don't you love those Indian and Greek shebangs?

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The low pay in age care and child care where 90% of workers are female certainly WAS an issue before the election.

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And unfortunately Albo is as captured by the false neoliberal NAIRU/TINA dogma as you, but at least he will try to lift the low wages in those feminized industries, as well as lift workers wages generally...facing a fight with 'small business' who want to minimize wages for their employees.

NOW!  Sticking to the voice silliness... it will not pass...

Try to stick to it and stop wandering off into the realms of fantasy.  If you want to discuss industry wage difference - go to the ACTU or the Fair Work Commission and put your case.  Are men in those industries paid more?  NO!  Are male nurses paid more?  NO!  Are men in banking paid more? NO (if you can find one)!

Different industry sectors have always had different rates of pay - the ISSUE is that women are currently paid on average $58.02 ph worked and men $54.17... over to you.  Now - if the poor struggling over feminised women's work sectors are paid more as a matter of compulsory policy - that gap will grow again... and that is a far greater danger to society and both personal and national security than women working at a lower hourly rate in some sectors, but nowhere near all sectors, and is nothing but a perpetuation of the elitist assault on men as the mainstay of democracy and society and also those most willing to oppose the tyranny that is developing - that is why governments have sought for so long now to emasculate men and the workforce in many ways.

There is NO wage gap.

NOW - FFS - leave it and stick with the voice.

THE VOICE WILL FAIL!

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 7:02am:


No doubt. In any case,  it's irrelevant to the problem of closing the gap.

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er... almost everyone agrees the REAL issue is closing the gap, regardless of whether they believe a voice will achieve that outcome or not.   

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The fact that child-care and age-care workers are paid less than supermarket shelf packers is a disgrace.

The problem of course is based in the fact that the feminized industries are mostlyfunded by government, while Coles and Woolies (private sector) can afford higher wages.

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Very sneaky of you. Of course women, who have to take time off to bear and suckle babies, will work less hours than men on average (and in total) over their lifetimes, and hence your average per hour worked figure is nonsense, as I showed in my previous post. You have taken total wages paid to women including the highest paid women  (all of whom who work less than men on average over a lifetime), and concluded women are paid more than men.


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Cor blimey you sure do get it back to front more often than not...those women in child care will get more than men stacking shelves in Woolies? So what, child care is a more valuable industry.  And your false, erroneous definition of a 'gap' will decrease, not increase.

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Actually, I'm sympathetic to the idea of "women who want to be women", ie stay at home , look after the kids while their husbands are the bread winners.

But times have changed.

You can rail against it all you like; ...and despite my above comment, I'm also sympathetic to women who want to escape from that traditional female role. 

At least you might show some sympathy, too...

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A problem of definition, as already noted.

Some women earn more than most men, which skews the stats; but the hourly rates of feminized industries like child and age care are lower than the hourly rates of most male dominated industries.

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Can't be done, you will - and must - lose this debate, if we are to close the (black) gap. 


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Probably, ...or  maybe....I don't know; but I do know the gap must be closed...which is what the voice is supposed to achieve, as most people believe it will - whether that belief is based on any solid ground or not. 

As you know, I don't think the voice IS based on solid ground; however, Noel Pearson wants it, so I'm 50/50....BECAUSE Pearson DOES have the correct  solution to closing the gap, namely a Job Guarantee....which you dismiss as fantasy.

So... live with the gap, and earn the deserved opprobrium of the world, loser.

Boris wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 12:25pm:


I already agreed the pernicious practices of ancient cultures must be exposed and rejected.

The 'voice' in this debate is the voice whose goal is closing the gap.

Redmond Neck wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 12:44pm:


well...yes; so let's see your plans for closing the gap.

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I agree; continually hearing we on such and such (first nations) land is tiresome.

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Me too... so get to it and urge the government to introduce a Job Guarantee, so we can cut through all the culture crap...and close the gap.

Gnads wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 9:41am:


Why are you telling me that? I already know that, as you should know if you have been following the debate.

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...plus a genuine desire to close the gap, so not entirely worthless. 

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Yes, and naturally that 'voice' is split - like Oz democracy itself - between the Right and the Left.

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Like I said, don't accuse me of a stance I don't have.

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No more divisive and pernicious than your failure to address closing the gap.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 11:08am:


OK....provided you acknowledge the whole "voice"  thing is based, inter alia, on a desire, even if misplaced,  to close the gap. Deal?

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Like I said, Pearson has identified the cause of the problem - permanent unemployment (permanent because it's built into the system)  which ravages black communities particularly badly.

Yet he is still inclined to support the voice....well, we are all hopelessly (and often disastrously) committed to the 'culture' with which we identify.

So yes, vote against the voice by all means, but you cannot then turn around and say "job done";  enabling government to eliminate systemic unemployment (in the entire community, for that matter) will remain as the only solution to close the gap.