Australian Politics Forum - The question about a voice will be asked...

Captain Caveman

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1515 - Jan 5^th, 2023 at 12:45pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 12:00pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 11:30am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 10:41am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 4^th, 2023 at 2:35pm:

... that and their own desire to live out in the Ning Nang Nong and demand to continue to do things their outdated way or else....

Stop trying to find excuses for not introducing a job guarantee

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and from the 'government of all equally' perspective

Needs a job guarantee, for all...

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woe betide the whitey who strikes back or even self-defends or even suggests just leaving them to it in splendid isolation.

Can't be done, the modern money-based economy demands integration.

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Truly madness has overcome this country - Australia Has Fallen!!

The solution is simple:

1. job guarantee

2. education

3. functional communities.

= closing the gap.

That's all been put in front of them in the past and achieved SFA.

Guaranteed employment via the CDEP (1977-2004) was indeed an example of a job guarantee which reduced crime and alcoholism in communities until it was cancelled by Neoliberal market ideologues.

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How about mandatory schooling?
Educate them to understand that this society of school and work is valuable to them instead of telling them its white man's way of controlling them.

Yes, but the current egregious community dysfunction (the gap) has to be reduced sufficiently first, by introducing a JG for those willing and able, to improve community standards.

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You wanna sit way out bumfuk. That's your choice,

No it's not; community dysfunction is a condition that destroys choice.

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but there's not many jobs out there so you may have to travel for work, and being out there you may have to go to mines. Nothing shameful in that.

The community dysfunction has to be ameliorated first.

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I had nothing handed to me.
My parents are carrnts.
I still managed to get educated, get a good career and pay my own way with zero handouts.
If I can do it, anyone can.

Nonsense, you might be a genius; where others might have learnt you have to steal to get what you need or want.

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Stop handing out participation awards and make it so these lazy fkkkers have to help themselves.
That ain't racist at all.

We smashed their culture, we have to pick up the pieces, via successful considered intervention, to create functional communities within a money economy.

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It's what has to happen.

Yes (the bolded).

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And if they reply with "farrk you whitey" then cut them off from anything white man has given them.
You wanna live like your precious elders of the past, no worries.

A hunter-gatherer culture is incompatible with the modern world.

I am far from genius TGD.
I had a choice to make.
I could live in the gutter with all of the homeless or better myself.
It wasn't a hard conclusion for me. Gutters are horrible places, and the resources I had available at the time were very limited, but they were available to anyone who wanted to use them.
I worked my arse off for 26yrs and now sit comfortably.

No one but me did this.

Unfortunately it is extremely easy to just say fuqit, I'm gonna sit here and do farrk all.
I know of whites that are doing it. They are entrepreneurs in the field of lazy. Most are relying on mum and dad to kick the bucket and leave them the estate.

Our native friends have to want to fix themselves.
We can't do that for them.
Attitudes within their own communities need to change.
We also cannot do that for them.
Their elders, the ones that everyone seems to want to thank atm, need to stand up and take charge of their people and change their attitudes towards themselves and society.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13126 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1516 - Jan 5^th, 2023 at 4:46pm Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 12:14pm: You are hilarious...... clearly you know not one thing about people. I ask again - are you autistic? well... Marcus Aurelius certainly did, and we know his conclusions....
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1517 - Jan 5^th, 2023 at 5:10pm

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

I am far from genius TGD.

Pass.....

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I had a choice to make.

No you didn't, you did the best you could; "choice" is complex:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/topstories/20-reasons-why-capitalism-is-bad-for-...

20 reasons why capitalism is bad for humanity

reason #20:

"Democracy:
Democracy and capitalism go hand in hand. Yet today, democracies around the world are in crisis. Corporations have become so powerful that they are able to undermine governments. Social media giants such as Facebook and Twitter operate with little oversight and have the ability to spread misinformation and divide populations, creating political unrest and undercutting democracy as people are manipulated by algorithms to adopt increasingly radical views

Ring a bell? (Hint: look at the US House of Reps.....currently out of operation......)

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I could live in the gutter with all of the homeless or better myself.

No you couldn't, and neither could I, but plenty are forced into homelessness.

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It wasn't a hard conclusion for me. Gutters are horrible places, and the resources I had available at the time were very limited, but they were available to anyone who wanted to use them.
I worked my arse off for 26yrs and now sit comfortably.

No one but me did this.

Unfortunately it is extremely easy to just say fuqit, I'm gonna sit here and do farrk all.
I know of whites that are doing it. They are entrepreneurs in the field of lazy. Most are relying on mum and dad to kick the bucket and leave them the estate.

Our native friends have to want to fix themselves.
We can't do that for them.
Attitudes within their own communities need to change.
We also cannot do that for them.
Their elders, the ones that everyone seems to want to thank atm, need to stand up and take charge of their people and change their attitudes towards themselves and society.

Standard RW <the poor are responsible for their own poverty> BS...despite the fact neoliberal markets rely on unemployment to control wages and inflation.

The article above also has this to say:

Poor nations
Modern-day capitalism “breeds competition between countries and perpetuates poverty among developing nations due to the individual interests of private corporations rather than the needs of their workers.” Capitalism ensures that there are winners and losers, and developing nations are trapped in a cycle of perpetual poverty, fraught with systemic human rights violations and environmental deregulation.

and

Social needs
Capitalism hinges on the idea that all individuals can work at a certain level and speed. Yet not everyone is able to. Seniors, people with disabilities, and people with chronic illness, for instance, may not be able to work at the same capacity as others. In a capitalist system, these people are often marginalized, forced to live in poverty, and are unable to get the care they need.

and

Wealth inequality
Capitalism perpetuates inconceivable rates of wealth inequality. Using data from 2017 and 2018, Business Insider determined that Amazon founder Jeff Bezos was earning over US$215 million a day, making more in a single minute than the median American worker makes in a year!

and

Average workers
As mentioned earlier, while Amazon founder Jeff Bezos earns over US$215 million a day, millions of people who live in wealthy nations are one paycheque away from being homeless. But for those at the top to make it big, the workers at the bottom who make capitalism possible are not being paid a living wage.

and that's for those who have a job!

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1518 - Jan 5^th, 2023 at 7:44pm

The voice - is starting to look like The Battle Of the Five Sitting Ducks.....

Now HTF would anyone not notice gunfire in the night to the north and instantly call Battle Stations? Little old tropical storm or something?*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Savo_Island

* No storm here .....

"Far off to the north in the Arctic gloom, lightning flickered... then flickered again....... and one minute later the German ships were suddenly surrounded by the towering spouts of twenty four six inch shells straddling them. The covering force, lost in the dark Arctic winter night, had finally arrived!"

- Battle Of the Barents Sea, 1943.

Clearly the Brits knew a bit more than the Yanks and HMAS Canberra - which was unfortunate in that it was the only cruiser at full stand-by, but was struck in the engine room by a torpedo, killing all the engine room crew, and shutting down all power. Clearly the Yanks down the slot didn't figure all that flame and noise was anything serious.... just another normal night off Guadalcanal.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1519 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:41am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 4:46pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

You are hilarious...... clearly you know not one thing about people. I ask again - are you autistic?

well... Marcus Aurelius certainly did, and we know his conclusions....

The more he went down amongst the way of men, the less human he became.....

Kinda rings a bell that one...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1520 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 11:49am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:41am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 4:46pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

You are hilarious...... clearly you know not one thing about people. I ask again - are you autistic?

well... Marcus Aurelius certainly did, and we know his conclusions....

The more he went down amongst the way of men, the less human he became.....

Kinda rings a bell that one...

Wrong conclusion, as expected from a deluded, blindly self-interested libertarian brain.

We all remain human, regardless of how unethical we become, how low we sink.....

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1521 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:02pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 11:49am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:41am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 4:46pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

You are hilarious...... clearly you know not one thing about people. I ask again - are you autistic?

well... Marcus Aurelius certainly did, and we know his conclusions....

The more he went down amongst the way of men, the less human he became.....

Kinda rings a bell that one...

Wrong conclusion, as expected from a deluded, blindly self-interested libertarian brain.

We all remain human, regardless of how unethical we become, how low we sink.....

Depends on how you define Human.... clearly the Aurelian felt that it was the code of behaviour that determined who was Human and who was merely human due to basic biology .... and that if you lie down with dogs you inevitably get fleas ....

We each choose our own... look at you --- in your eyes, whether your see it or not - those you love to label as "eluded, blindly self-interested libertarian" are not as human as you....

It's an unconscious component of human psychology... a kind of tribalism if you like or more specifically form of elitism .... EVERYONE thinks their way is the Human way and all others are mere humans based on their biology. That's why we have BLMs and Antifas and all the various 'rights' demand movements.... because in their eyes only - their way is the ONLY way a human can possibly go.

Even Albo says so with his silly advocacy of some mythical Voice - if you don't vote for it you are a form of sub-human, whereas any 'activist' for it, regardless of actions and actual harm caused to others including innocents (see the brushfire war in North eastern NSW), is somehow Human and above all others - ergo - those 'punished' in the terror campaign deserve it since they do not support the Cause.... Pol Pot would have been proud.

You need to get out more.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1522 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:41pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:02pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 11:49am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:41am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 4:46pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

You are hilarious...... clearly you know not one thing about people. I ask again - are you autistic?

well... Marcus Aurelius certainly did, and we know his conclusions....

The more he went down amongst the way of men, the less human he became.....

Kinda rings a bell that one...

Wrong conclusion, as expected from a deluded, blindly self-interested libertarian brain.

We all remain human, regardless of how unethical we become, how low we sink.....

Depends on how you define Human....

No it doesn't, you deluded Libertarian brain; a human is a member of the species home spapiens: and humans in aggregate are that species.

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clearly the Aurelian felt that it was the code of behaviour that determined who was Human and who was merely human due to basic biology .... and that if you lie down with dogs you inevitably get fleas ....

See how your Libertarian brain deludes itself?...."human" defined by different individual behaviours, cf "human" defined by basic biology/species type.

Clearly defining "human" by the quality of individual behaviour is flawed...and Marcus had the self-awareness to see how his own ethical standards were dragged down by his underlings.

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We each choose our own... look at you --- in your eyes, whether your see it or not - those you love to label as "deluded, blindly self-interested libertarian" are not as human as you....

On the contrary we are ALL human, including the deluded natural individual rights libertarians who are currently crippling government in the US.

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It's an unconscious component of human psychology...

That's right; survival instincts and individual egos' motivations/goals are unconscious/subconscious.

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a kind of tribalism if you like or more specifically form of elitism ....

Tribes originally instinctively became organized, to best ensure survival in different localities.

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EVERYONE thinks their way is the Human way

Another way of saying we are all subject to (political) partisanship.

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and all others are mere humans based on their biology.

..yes, revealing the terrible tendency to regard others ("mere humans") with different ideologies, as 'sub-human'/'bags of s**t', etc. etc.

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That's why we have BLMs and Antifas and all the various 'rights' demand movements.... because in their eyes only - their way is the ONLY way a human can possibly go.

er....partisan nonsense.
To cut a long story short: "It's the economy, stupid".

No-one ever quietly accepts living in entrenched poverty.

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Even Albo says so with his silly advocacy of some mythical Voice - if you don't vote for it you are a form of sub-human, whereas any 'activist' for it, regardless of actions and actual harm caused to others including innocents (see the brushfire war in North eastern NSW), is somehow Human and above all others - ergo - those 'punished' in the terror campaign deserve it since they do not support the Cause.... Pol Pot would have been proud.

You need to get out more.

Addressed and refuted above. Albo's mistake is to think the voice, if enacted, will close the gap; and hence he thinks the no-voicers are wrong, though he certainly doesn't think they are sub-human.

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« Last Edit: Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:50pm by thegreatdivide »

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85220 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1523 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm That's why there are two classifications - Humans and humans, same as Men and men, same as Women and women .... and all the other sub-groups building up these days. Clearly you missed the difference between the capital H and the small h ...... it's only human to do so ......
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1524 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:56pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

That's why there are two classifications - Humans and humans, same as Men and men, same as Women and women .... and all the other sub-groups building up these days.

Clearly you missed the difference between the capital H and the small h ...... it's only human to do so ......

No I saw it, but clearly you still think there are differences between "Humans" and "humans"

You are truly blinded by your delusional libertarian "freedom" ideology.

This exchange is a good illustration of why humans selfishly compete all the way to self-destruction, rather than cooperate for mutual prosperity.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1525 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:02pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

That's why there are two classifications - Humans and humans, same as Men and men, same as Women and women .... and all the other sub-groups building up these days.

Clearly you missed the difference between the capital H and the small h ...... it's only human to do so ......

No I saw it, but clearly you still think there are differences between "Humans" and "humans"

You are truly blinded by your delusional libertarian "freedom" ideology.

This exchange is a good illustration of why humans selfishly compete all the way to self-destruction, rather than cooperate for mutual prosperity.

Haven't you left for North Korea or China yet? What's holding you back? There's plenty of (enforced) cooperation happening there. Off you go!! Quick sticks!! You wouldn't want to be known for being a hypocrite now ... would you?

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1526 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:19pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

That's why there are two classifications - Humans and humans, same as Men and men, same as Women and women .... and all the other sub-groups building up these days.

Clearly you missed the difference between the capital H and the small h ...... it's only human to do so ......

No I saw it, but clearly you still think there are differences between "Humans" and "humans"

You are truly blinded by your delusional libertarian "freedom" ideology.

This exchange is a good illustration of why humans selfishly compete all the way to self-destruction, rather than cooperate for mutual prosperity.

Haven't you left for North Korea or China yet? What's holding you back?

I'm comfortably retired here, though looking forward to visit China in several years when China has overtaken the US.

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There's plenty of (enforced) cooperation happening there.

There are a number of threads on Ozpolitic drilling down into the "natural individual rights/freedom" delusion.

Human civilization will only prosper when rational cooperation succeeds irrational instinctive competition.

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Off you go!! Quick sticks!! You wouldn't want to be known for being a hypocrite now ... would you?

Addressed above, China will be a very impressive state in a decade, if they manage their economy correctly**, and avoid the Taiwan war which the paranoid US (- currently without a functioning government; how about Trump for speaker of the House....-) is itching for.

** the debt delusion promoted by Western central banks still seems to have some hold in China, but we will see.

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« Last Edit: Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:31pm by thegreatdivide »

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1527 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:38pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

That's why there are two classifications - Humans and humans, same as Men and men, same as Women and women .... and all the other sub-groups building up these days.

Clearly you missed the difference between the capital H and the small h ...... it's only human to do so ......

No I saw it, but clearly you still think there are differences between "Humans" and "humans"

You are truly blinded by your delusional libertarian "freedom" ideology.

This exchange is a good illustration of why humans selfishly compete all the way to self-destruction, rather than cooperate for mutual prosperity.

Haven't you left for North Korea or China yet? What's holding you back? There's plenty of (enforced) cooperation happening there. Off you go!! Quick sticks!! You wouldn't want to be known for being a hypocrite now ... would you?

You're retired ffs! There's nothing holding you back! Off you go! Go live in China! Or North Korea! The (enforced) co operation you crave is THERE! You're merely wasting your precious last moments of your retired life HERE! Be kind to yourself and GO ASAP!

I'm even prepared to pay for your ONE way ticket to (enforced) co operation! It doesn't get much better than that! If you're retired who knows how long before you drop dead? ESP with Covid19 killing Baby Boomers like you so readily. No don't waste another moment! Book that 1 way flight NOW! Enjoy your (enforced) cooperation. All the best with everything!
Byeeee.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1528 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:48pm

"China will be a very impressive state in a decade, if they manage their economy

and their society

correctly**, and avoid the Taiwan war"

which they are pushing for and nobody else is .....

You are one confused bunny.... take Lisa's offer ..... co-operate all you like ..... I've me eye on that long boat - the Swedish/Danish ancestry you see.... and a life on the high seas.... and a small lot in The Azores as a home base...... ocean views uninterrupted ..... cheap rates.... Trader Grappler runs to the mainland....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1529 - Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:50pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:38pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:02pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:56pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 12:45pm:

That's why there are two classifications - Humans and humans, same as Men and men, same as Women and women .... and all the other sub-groups building up these days.

Clearly you missed the difference between the capital H and the small h ...... it's only human to do so ......

No I saw it, but clearly you still think there are differences between "Humans" and "humans"

You are truly blinded by your delusional libertarian "freedom" ideology.

This exchange is a good illustration of why humans selfishly compete all the way to self-destruction, rather than cooperate for mutual prosperity.

Haven't you left for North Korea or China yet? What's holding you back? There's plenty of (enforced) cooperation happening there. Off you go!! Quick sticks!! You wouldn't want to be known for being a hypocrite now ... would you?

You're retired ffs! There's nothing holding you back!

Retired but busy. I will go when it suits me, not you.

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The (enforced) co operation ......

You deluded 'individual rights ideologue': co-operation can only exist under law.

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Enjoy your (enforced) cooperation. All the best with everything!Byeeee.

I'll be here for some time yet, exposing your delusional 'natural individual rights' ideology.

Btw, you barracking for Trump, for speaker of the US House? The Yanks - land of the "free" - need some assistance to form a functioning government....

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Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?
YES 11 (28.9%) NO 27 (71.1%) Total votes: 38 « Created by: Grappler Deep State Feller on: Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:27pm »