Australian Politics Forum - The question about a voice will be asked...

Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #555 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 1:01pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:49am:

Real debate, not a conga line of nodders, as on the ABC. Another example of the Left want you to shut up while conservatives want to debate and convince. Bolt versus Kenny on the Voice. As Bolt says, you could never see such a debate on the ABC.

Well I'll have a look at Bolt-Kenny, and point out their errors in due course. But on this issue I expect an ABC audience is closer to majority Oz opinion than Sky News, because the Lab/Green/Ind majority in parliament no doubt reflects the Oz electorate's opinion re the voice.

Both Bolt and News Ltd, the owner of Sky, have both been found guilty of racial vilification.

Unlike China, we don't have re-education camps, Great. Instead, we allow offenders to freely weigh in on issues such as these. Freeeedom, innit.

It is a jolly world, no?

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Online Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13057 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #556 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 1:38pm Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:57pm: [color=#ffffff] How will the majority will endorse a mystery? Because there won't be a mystery, ie, there won't be an advisory voice with the power to impose policy on parliament (much less the executive).
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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #557 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:19pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 1:38pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:57pm:

[color=#ffffff]
How will the majority will endorse a mystery?

Because there won't be a mystery, ie, there won't be an advisory voice with the power to impose policy on parliament (much less the executive).

It would be a very courageous government, Minister, that would ignore a constitutionally established body.

And what on earth is the point of it if it can be safely ignored? That's the mystery.

Why not make the GG an Aborigine? Simpler, neater, much more symbolic. But that would be racist, too.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #558 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:35pm

I believe there is a deep and underlying truth here - the 1967 referendum (I was too young to vote despite wearing the green uniform) .... and the thing about government being able to make separate laws for the Indigenous - it may say 'groups', but like all such things, it actually meant one group.

So - we have the very real prospect here - they say they don't 'just' want special recognition in the Constitution..... they want special recognition (someone please show me where any other group is separately specified in the constitution) in the Big C, but also they want that separate body to 'advise' government at all levels...... repeats ... at all levels...

Clearly, therefore, WHEN the recognition in the Constitution, something that can never be a Right, is rejected - this government is still at full liberty to impose by decree this very 'advisory' or lobby body, paid for out of your taxes etc, and independent of any scrutiny.

Now my question is this - would you permit such a body to encompass any other group in our society and be paid for out of your till? Say ... mining...... White Australia ..... Muslims ...... the LNP .... Labor Party .... Black Africans... the business body(ies) ... the ambassadors of foreign nations ... you name it....

Which of these would you offer a special lobby group paid for out of your funds to influence your government at every level, when no other group has that opportunity? And all this alongside the countless bodies that already lobby etc and 'advise' government about 'issues .... BTW - I never called Abos 'drunken layabouts' either..... some are... some aren't... same as some Mussos are terrorists and some aren't.... tell me how we are to pick the difference and I'll discuss it with my Indigenous hair-cutter next time I get a cut... I'm sure he'll get a laugh...

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Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #559 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:36pm

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:57pm:

[color=#ffffff][/color]thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:49am:

Real debate, not a conga line of nodders, as on the ABC. Another example of the Left want you to shut up while conservatives want to debate and convince. Bolt versus Kenny on the Voice. As Bolt says, you could never see such a debate on the ABC.

Well I'll have a look at Bolt-Kenny, and point out their errors in due course. But on this issue I expect an ABC audience is closer to majority Oz opinion than Sky News, because the Lab/Green/Ind majority in parliament no doubt reflects the Oz electorate's opinion re the voice.

Constitutional amendment will need majority of voters in the majority of states.

What kind of representation the Voice will be able to make that e listing parliamentarians, departments of Aboriginal affairs , state and federal, and various other peak bodies can't remains a mystery.

How will the majority will endorse a mystery?

Hard to say, old boy. They did the first time round.

You?

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Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #560 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:37pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:35pm:

I believe there is a deep and underlying truth here - the 1967 referendum (I was too young to vote despite wearing the green uniform) .... and the thing about government being able to make separate laws for the Indigenous - it may say 'groups', but like all such things, it actually meant one group.

So - we have the very real prospect here - they say they don't 'just' want special recognition in the Constitution..... they want special recognition (someone please show me where any other group is separately specified in the constitution) in the Big C, but also they want that separate body to 'advise' government at all levels...... repeats ... at all levels...

Clearly, therefore, WHEN the recognition in the Constitution, something that can never be a Right, is rejected - this government is still at full liberty to impose by decree this very 'advisory' or lobby body, paid for out of your taxes etc, and independent of any scrutiny.

Now my question is this - would you permit such a body to encompass any other group in our society and be paid for out of your till? Say ... mining...... White Australia ..... Muslims ...... the LNP .... Labor Party .... Black Africans... the business body(ies) ... the ambassadors of foreign nations ... you name it....

Which of these would you offer a special lobby group paid for out of your funds to influence your government at every level, when no other group has that opportunity? And all this alongside the countless bodies that already lobby etc and 'advise' government about 'issues .... BTW - I never called Abos 'drunken layabouts' either..... some are... some aren't... same as some Mussos are terrorists and some aren't.... tell me how we are to pick the difference and I'll discuss it with my Indigenous hair-cutter next time I get a cut... I'm sure he'll get a laugh...

Black Africans are not a race, no?

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #561 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:39pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:57pm:

[color=#ffffff][/color]thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:49am:

Real debate, not a conga line of nodders, as on the ABC. Another example of the Left want you to shut up while conservatives want to debate and convince. Bolt versus Kenny on the Voice. As Bolt says, you could never see such a debate on the ABC.

Well I'll have a look at Bolt-Kenny, and point out their errors in due course. But on this issue I expect an ABC audience is closer to majority Oz opinion than Sky News, because the Lab/Green/Ind majority in parliament no doubt reflects the Oz electorate's opinion re the voice.

Constitutional amendment will need majority of voters in the majority of states.

What kind of representation the Voice will be able to make that e listing parliamentarians, departments of Aboriginal affairs , state and federal, and various other peak bodies can't remains a mystery.

How will the majority will endorse a mystery?

Hard to say, old boy. They did the first time round.

You?

No - they didn't - they voted to give them a vote same as everyone else..... same as everyone else.... same as everyone else.......... the bit about government being able to make laws and put them in without reference to the community was a sneaked-in bit that few noticed, I would suspect... or thought for a moment that in voting for that at the same time they were creating a monster where government could make any laws to suit itself or its ideology.... and impose them on the electorate with so much as a by-your-leave....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #562 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:40pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 1:38pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:57pm:

[color=#ffffff]
How will the majority will endorse a mystery?

Because there won't be a mystery, ie, there won't be an advisory voice with the power to impose policy on parliament (much less the executive).

Unlike the Privy Council, the Church of England or the Crown, who's GG once sacked a government.

Rule of law, innit.

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Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #563 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:42pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:57pm:

[color=#ffffff][/color]thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:49am:

Real debate, not a conga line of nodders, as on the ABC. Another example of the Left want you to shut up while conservatives want to debate and convince. Bolt versus Kenny on the Voice. As Bolt says, you could never see such a debate on the ABC.

Well I'll have a look at Bolt-Kenny, and point out their errors in due course. But on this issue I expect an ABC audience is closer to majority Oz opinion than Sky News, because the Lab/Green/Ind majority in parliament no doubt reflects the Oz electorate's opinion re the voice.

Constitutional amendment will need majority of voters in the majority of states.

What kind of representation the Voice will be able to make that e listing parliamentarians, departments of Aboriginal affairs , state and federal, and various other peak bodies can't remains a mystery.

How will the majority will endorse a mystery?

Hard to say, old boy. They did the first time round.

You?

No - they didn't - they voted to give them a vote same as everyone else..... same as everyone else.... same as everyone else.......... the bit about government being able to make laws and put them in without reference to the community was a sneaked-in bit that few noticed, I would suspect... or thought for a moment that in voting for that at the same time they were creating a monster where government could make any laws to suit itself or its ideology.... and impose them on the electorate with so much as a by-your-leave....

You don't sound so keen, dear.

Sneaky old Boongs, eh?

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #564 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:47pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:37pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:35pm:

I believe there is a deep and underlying truth here - the 1967 referendum (I was too young to vote despite wearing the green uniform) .... and the thing about government being able to make separate laws for the Indigenous - it may say 'groups', but like all such things, it actually meant one group.

So - we have the very real prospect here - they say they don't 'just' want special recognition in the Constitution..... they want special recognition (someone please show me where any other group is separately specified in the constitution) in the Big C, but also they want that separate body to 'advise' government at all levels...... repeats ... at all levels...

Clearly, therefore, WHEN the recognition in the Constitution, something that can never be a Right, is rejected - this government is still at full liberty to impose by decree this very 'advisory' or lobby body, paid for out of your taxes etc, and independent of any scrutiny.

Now my question is this - would you permit such a body to encompass any other group in our society and be paid for out of your till? Say ... mining...... White Australia ..... Muslims ...... the LNP .... Labor Party .... Black Africans... the business body(ies) ... the ambassadors of foreign nations ... you name it....

Which of these would you offer a special lobby group paid for out of your funds to influence your government at every level, when no other group has that opportunity? And all this alongside the countless bodies that already lobby etc and 'advise' government about 'issues .... BTW - I never called Abos 'drunken layabouts' either..... some are... some aren't... same as some Mussos are terrorists and some aren't.... tell me how we are to pick the difference and I'll discuss it with my Indigenous hair-cutter next time I get a cut... I'm sure he'll get a laugh...

Black Africans are not a race, no?

It takes a khunt to miss the point with such 100 % success rate.

Gift? Self-taught? Bit of both. See now why you put it on your card.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #565 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:49pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:42pm:

You don't sound so keen, dear.

Sneaky old Boongs, eh?

Not sneaky Boongs, sonny - sneaky governments - they come in all colours and stamps, and I've long warned you that they are sneaky with a capital S.... and that their aim is not equality for all but total power for themselves to enjoy your money at their whim - just like any Third World dictator group... I guess you missed the birth of Australia....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #566 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 6:00pm

No need for any further 'voice' when land claims can be just rubber-stamped.

https://www.industry.nsw.gov.au/lands/news/happy-valley-land-for-aboriginal-comm...

I doubt any of those locals there are suffering much in the way of disadvantage - though back in the early 70's, this area was the site of one of the infamous 'floor boards ripped up for firewood' scandals...

Primest spot of land in the entire city there...... never a mundane piece of hot and dry that is 'sacred' to the survival or anything... oceanfront to the max and worth millions.....

The mantra is that it was 'saved from development' - well - it's national park land, not open to development.... and is to be handed over as freehold - so how long before it is on the market, this sacred site?

Another interesting aspect is that it has been used as accommodation for transient Aboriginals passing through... and this looks likely to be enhanced.... transient? I thought you had to ... like .... live there.... you know... permanent and uninterrupted..... all that..

So is this like......... an ..... ahhhh ... Aboriginal nation sort of idea? All part of the same skin or something?

And the area next door is subject to redevelopment proposals.... doesn't mean the status of this chunk would have changed... it's parkland.... not subject to development...

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« Last Edit: Aug 8^th, 2022 at 6:14pm by Grappler Deep State Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #567 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 6:16pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 1:01pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:49am:

Real debate, not a conga line of nodders, as on the ABC. Another example of the Left want you to shut up while conservatives want to debate and convince. Bolt versus Kenny on the Voice. As Bolt says, you could never see such a debate on the ABC.

Well I'll have a look at Bolt-Kenny, and point out their errors in due course. But on this issue I expect an ABC audience is closer to majority Oz opinion than Sky News, because the Lab/Green/Ind majority in parliament no doubt reflects the Oz electorate's opinion re the voice.

Both Bolt and News Ltd, the owner of Sky, have both been found guilty of racial vilification.

Unlike China, we don't have re-education camps, Great. Instead, we allow offenders to freely weigh in on issues such as these. Freeeedom, innit.

You make it sound like a bad thing.

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Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #568 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 6:21pm

freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 6:16pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 1:01pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:49am:

Real debate, not a conga line of nodders, as on the ABC. Another example of the Left want you to shut up while conservatives want to debate and convince. Bolt versus Kenny on the Voice. As Bolt says, you could never see such a debate on the ABC.

Well I'll have a look at Bolt-Kenny, and point out their errors in due course. But on this issue I expect an ABC audience is closer to majority Oz opinion than Sky News, because the Lab/Green/Ind majority in parliament no doubt reflects the Oz electorate's opinion re the voice.

Both Bolt and News Ltd, the owner of Sky, have both been found guilty of racial vilification.

Unlike China, we don't have re-education camps, Great. Instead, we allow offenders to freely weigh in on issues such as these. Freeeedom, innit.

You make it sound like a bad thing.

Sorry about that, FD. Up for a question?

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #569 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 6:24pm

Having re-education camps? Could have its merits.... what we have instead is the economic gulag - if you don't kow-tow to the current ideology you will not receive appointment to a job or promotion within it... not kissing the arse of New City Hall means you go find your income somewhere outside the softer jobs open only to certain groups.....

great divide talks about certain groups and disadvantage.... I guess all those nice and well-educated young men will just have to be satisfied with ditch digging and fervently hoping for a Lotto win so they can buy a small parcel of land since they won't have it handed to them - let alone naked beachfront in a major city .... no equal opportunity there, sonny...... eye candy is much easier on the eye for customers you know.... land claims are race and colour sensitive, though the spokespersons are often more White than I am...

Had to laugh - there was a young guy working at the chemist shop... I asked him what he was doing there ..... he said - "I know - unusual, isn't it?"

Eye candy....... young guys aren't eye candy......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?
YES 11 (28.9%) NO 27 (71.1%) Total votes: 38 « Created by: Grappler Deep State Feller on: Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:27pm »