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Poll Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?

YES    
  11 (28.9%)
NO    
  27 (71.1%)




Total votes: 38
« Created by: Grappler Deep State Feller on: Jul 30th, 2022 at 7:27pm »

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The question about a voice will be asked... (Read 54596 times)
Karnal
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #570 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:26pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 2:47pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 2:37pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 2:35pm:
I believe there is a deep and underlying truth here - the 1967 referendum (I was too young to vote despite wearing the green uniform) .... and the thing about government being able to make separate laws for the Indigenous - it may say 'groups', but like all such things, it actually meant one group.

So - we have the very real prospect here - they say they don't 'just' want special recognition in the Constitution..... they want special recognition (someone please show me where any other group is separately specified in the constitution) in the Big C, but also they want that separate body to 'advise' government at all levels...... repeats ... at all levels...

Clearly, therefore, WHEN the recognition in the Constitution, something that can never be a Right, is rejected - this government is still at full liberty to impose by decree this very 'advisory' or lobby body, paid for out of your taxes etc, and independent of any scrutiny.

Now my question is this - would you permit such a body to encompass any other group in our society and be paid for out of your till?  Say ... mining...... White Australia ..... Muslims ...... the LNP .... Labor Party .... Black Africans... the business body(ies) ... the ambassadors of foreign nations ... you name it....

Which of these would you offer a special lobby group paid for out of your funds to influence your government at every level, when no other group has that opportunity?  And all this alongside the countless bodies that already lobby etc and 'advise' government about 'issues ....  BTW - I never called Abos 'drunken layabouts' either..... some are... some aren't... same as some Mussos are terrorists and some aren't.... tell me how we are to pick the difference and I'll discuss it with my Indigenous hair-cutter next time I get a cut... I'm sure he'll get a laugh...


Black Africans are not a race, no?



It takes a khunt to miss the point with such 100 % success rate.

Gift? Self-taught? Bit of both.  See now why you put it on your card.   


Sir Reggie? Is that you, dear? Haven't seen you since the Ottoman Empire. Are you still alive or, you know...

Out of circulation - like good old Punch.
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Karnal
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #571 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:28pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:24pm:
Having re-education camps?  Could have its merits.... what we have instead is the economic gulag - if you don't kow-tow to the current ideology you will not receive appointment to a job or promotion within it... not kissing the arse of New City Hall means you go find your income somewhere outside the softer jobs open only to certain groups.....

great divide talks about certain groups and disadvantage.... I guess all those nice and well-educated young men will just have to be satisfied with ditch digging and fervently hoping for a Lotto win so they can buy a small parcel of land since they won't have it handed to them - let alone naked beachfront  .... no equal opportunity there, sonny...... eye candy is much easier on the eye for customers you know.... land claims are race and colour sensitive, though the spokespersons are often more White than I am...

Had to laugh - there was a young guy working at the chemist shop... I asked him what he was doing there ..... he said - "I know - unusual, isn't it?"

Eye candy....... young guys aren't eye candy......


Just so. FD and Yadda have been pushing for re-education camps since 2007.

You?
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #572 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:32pm
 
You associated the term 'Black Africans' with race, khunt - I said social group....... but then - I don't expect you zealots, ideologues, fanatics, and other losers to actually read what is written - let alone understand it....

You're the one twisting it all into 'race' - I constantly refer to social group or demographic or similar.... and only strike back when someone uses race to attack me...

You see - the very real issues of preferential treatment and blatant privilege cross many boundaries... not just White Men v The Rest... that is in reality the minority and most WM have traditionally been very tolerant and accepting... unlike certain other groups....  WM don't head for ghettoes or make outrageous claims of disadvantage over a prime champers ... they talk about what they achieved at work today over a quiet beer... if they discuss it at all...

...

Grappler opens fire on a Khunt, New Slave War 2022
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #573 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:41pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:28pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:24pm:
Having re-education camps?  Could have its merits.... what we have instead is the economic gulag - if you don't kow-tow to the current ideology you will not receive appointment to a job or promotion within it... not kissing the arse of New City Hall means you go find your income somewhere outside the softer jobs open only to certain groups.....

great divide talks about certain groups and disadvantage.... I guess all those nice and well-educated young men will just have to be satisfied with ditch digging and fervently hoping for a Lotto win so they can buy a small parcel of land since they won't have it handed to them - let alone naked beachfront  .... no equal opportunity there, sonny...... eye candy is much easier on the eye for customers you know.... land claims are race and colour sensitive, though the spokespersons are often more White than I am...

Had to laugh - there was a young guy working at the chemist shop... I asked him what he was doing there ..... he said - "I know - unusual, isn't it?"

Eye candy....... young guys aren't eye candy......


Just so. FD and Yadda have been pushing for re-education camps since 2007.

You?


Just consider it a finishing school for the socially interrupted..... you'd fit right in.... a few here would really fill out one of those places and add some real talent.... challenge the abilities of the staff, you know....

Ladette to Lady... Grifter to Gentleman.... you'd come out a new person...... trained to fit into modern society.....
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Karnal
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #574 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:49pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:32pm:
You associated the term 'Black Africans' with race, khunt - I said social group....... but then - I don't expect you zealots, ideologues, fanatics, and other losers to actually read what is written - let alone understand it....

You're the one twisting it all into 'race' - I constantly refer to social group or demographic or similar.... and only strike back when someone uses race to attack me...

You see - the very real issues of preferential treatment and blatant privilege cross many boundaries... not just White Men v The Rest... that is in reality the minority and most WM have traditionally been very tolerant and accepting... unlike certain other groups....  WM don't head for ghettoes or make outrageous claims of disadvantage over a prime champers ... they talk about what they achieved at work today over a quiet beer... if they discuss it at all...

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CreamyQuarterlyAlligatorgar-max-1mb.gif

Grappler opens fire on a Khunt, New Slave War 2022


You regularly claim disadvantage. Many of your posts are an attempt to redress some wrong you feel women or Darkies or Third World Dictator groups have imposed on you. Do you know what you are, dear?

You're offended. And that's okay.

Every day in every way, things just get better and better, no?
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John Smith
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #575 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:53pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:49pm:
Many of your posts are an attempt to redress some wrong you feel women or Darkies or Third World Dictator groups have imposed on you. Do you know what you are, dear?



He's a victim

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #576 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:58pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 2:19pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 1:38pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 12:57pm:
[color=#ffffff]
How will the majority will endorse a mystery?


Because there won't be a mystery, ie, there won't be an advisory voice with the power to impose policy on parliament (much less the executive).


It would be a very courageous government, Minister, that would ignore a constitutionally established body.

And what on earth is the point of it if it can be safely ignored? That's the mystery.


Well, as Kenny said, certain policies favoured by the voice may find favour among the majority of MPs, in parliament. No mystery about that.


Quote:
Why not make the GG an Aborigine? Simpler, neater, much more symbolic. But that would be racist, too.


Yes, which leaves us with - as Kenny noted but you don't - the problem of how to close the gap. 
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Frank
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #577 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 7:06pm
 
The Voice in a quip:

Thomas Sowell – “if you want to help people, tell them the truth; if you want to help yourself, tell them what they want to hear”.


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Frank
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #578 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 7:12pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 6:58pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 2:19pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 1:38pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 12:57pm:
[color=#ffffff]
How will the majority will endorse a mystery?


Because there won't be a mystery, ie, there won't be an advisory voice with the power to impose policy on parliament (much less the executive).


It would be a very courageous government, Minister, that would ignore a constitutionally established body.

And what on earth is the point of it if it can be safely ignored? That's the mystery.


Well, as Kenny said, certain policies favoured by the voice may find favour among the majority of MPs, in parliament. No mystery about that.


Quote:
Why not make the GG an Aborigine? Simpler, neater, much more symbolic. But that would be racist, too.


Yes, which leaves us with - as Kenny noted but you don't - the problem of how to close the gap. 



Only Aborigines can close the gap. They need to move from the Stone Age to the present world. The world cannot move back. As log as they are reluctant to leave he Stone Age they will be 'disadvantaged'.

Do note that the one who have left the Stone Age behind - Stan Grant, Burney, Thorpe, Calma, Etc, etc- are doing very well.





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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #579 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:06pm
 
So - having been around the ropes long enough to know what is wrong with our current society - means a person who speaks out is a 'victim'?  More like a fearless freedom fighter... fearless seeker after truth...

Just speaking from a positive of entrenched privilege, you know.....
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #580 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:38pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 7:12pm:
Only Aborigines can close the gap.


Not so; and our own disadvantaged people need public -sector assistance as well.



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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #581 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:45pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:06pm:
So - having been around the ropes long enough to know what is wrong with our current society
 

Sorry Graps, you have dealt yourself out of the solutions people are seeking via a voice to close the gap, with your insistence that "personal responsibility" is the sole determinant of success.  Merely affirming  macro- economics plays no role doesn't cut the mustard.
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #582 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 9:02pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:45pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:06pm:
So - having been around the ropes long enough to know what is wrong with our current society
 

Sorry Graps, you have dealt yourself out of the solutions people are seeking via a voice to close the gap, with your insistence that "personal responsibility" is the sole determinant of success.  Merely affirming  macro- economics plays no role doesn't cut the mustard.


Well - a 'voice' won't change anything.... just be another burden on the taxpayer.  I'm glad the Honourable Member for Divisionaria raised that issue.... and being of Opposing parties clearly this is not a Dorothy Dix-er ..... it offers an opportunity to raise the very issue I raised just a short time ago - about the steady 'creep' away from the provisions of Native Title and the provisions of Mabo, and, in the hands of unelected public servants, the 'creep' towards gifting lands of primest value to Aboriginal claimants - who are encouraged to make such claims by the very departments gifting these lands - as FREEHOLD - as opposed to simply Native Title and shared usage, and Mabo being about land not used by anyone else and on which permanent residence has been established via squattter's rights.

Such Freehold gifting is not within the province of a government department to hand out without proper consultation with ALL stakeholders.... not just those very, VERY few they select as being stakeholders....

Furthermore, Person President of the House ONLY, such decisions by an unelected body could not proceed without first receiving clear permission from the government of the day... which therefore, Person President, bears equal culpability for this theft of national lands and lands of national heritage value, and its gifting direct as Freehold to only one group in this country.

The steady creep from Native Title and Mabo, through creating by regulation the opportunity for Indigenous groups to lay claim to purportedly unused sections of National Parks, through to this under-handed and arbitrary and undiscussed in the community gifting of Freehold has been both steady and pervasive, Person Speaker, and is something that desperately needs to first be placed under moratorium and a halt placed on all such proceedings as well as a caveat that they may be reversed at the will of the people, and then addressed to the people as a whole via a referendum.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #583 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 9:17pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 9:02pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:45pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1659098415/579#579 date=1659953193]So - having been around the ropes long enough to know what is wrong with our current society
 

Sorry Graps, you have dealt yourself out of the solutions people are seeking via a voice to close the gap, with your insistence that "personal responsibility" is the sole determinant of success.  Merely affirming  macro- economics plays no role doesn't cut the mustard.


Quote:
Well - a 'voice' won't change anything....


I already conceded that, but the rest of the population (including Mark Kenny, surprisingly)  doesn't know it yet, so let's get on with it...

Quote:
just be another burden on the taxpayer.


Small bikkies; surely. 

Quote:
I'm glad the Honourable Member for Divisionaria raised that issue.... and being of Opposing parties clearly this is not a Dorothy Dix-er ..... it offers an opportunity to raise the very issue I raised just a short time ago - about the steady 'creep' away from the provisions of Native Title and the provisions of Mabo, and, in the hands of unelected public servants, the 'creep' towards gifting lands of primest value to Aboriginal claimants - who are encouraged to make such claims by the very departments gifting these lands - as FREEHOLD - as opposed to simply Native Title and shared usage, and Mabo being about land not used by anyone else and on which permanent residence has been established via squattter's rights.

Such Freehold gifting is not within the province of a government department to hand out without proper consultation with ALL stakeholders.... not just those very, VERY few they select as being stakeholders....

Furthermore, Person President of the House ONLY, such decisions by an unelected body could not proceed without first receiving clear permission from the government of the day... which therefore, Person President, bears equal culpability for this theft of national lands and lands of national heritage value, and its gifting direct as Freehold to only one group in this country.

The steady creep from Native Title and Mabo, through creating by regulation the opportunity for Indigenous groups to lay claim to purportedly unused sections of National Parks, through to this under-handed and arbitrary and undiscussed in the community gifting of Freehold has been both steady and pervasive, Person Speaker, and is something that desperately needs to first be placed under moratorium and a halt placed on all such proceedings as well as a caveat that they may be reversed at the will of the people, and then addressed to the people as a whole via a referendum.


I'm sure Pauline will sort out wayward MPs; she's back in her element now in the Senate, opposing the voice, after her near death electoral experience.
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #584 - Aug 8th, 2022 at 9:41pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 9:17pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 9:02pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8th, 2022 at 8:45pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1659098415/579#579 date=1659953193]So - having been around the ropes long enough to know what is wrong with our current society
 

Sorry Graps, you have dealt yourself out of the solutions people are seeking via a voice to close the gap, with your insistence that "personal responsibility" is the sole determinant of success.  Merely affirming  macro- economics plays no role doesn't cut the mustard.


Quote:
Well - a 'voice' won't change anything....


I already conceded that, but the rest of the population (including Mark Kenny, surprisingly)  doesn't know it yet, so let's get on with it...

Quote:
just be another burden on the taxpayer.


Small bikkies; surely. 

Quote:
I'm glad the Honourable Member for Divisionaria raised that issue.... and being of Opposing parties clearly this is not a Dorothy Dix-er ..... it offers an opportunity to raise the very issue I raised just a short time ago - about the steady 'creep' away from the provisions of Native Title and the provisions of Mabo, and, in the hands of unelected public servants, the 'creep' towards gifting lands of primest value to Aboriginal claimants - who are encouraged to make such claims by the very departments gifting these lands - as FREEHOLD - as opposed to simply Native Title and shared usage, and Mabo being about land not used by anyone else and on which permanent residence has been established via squattter's rights.

Such Freehold gifting is not within the province of a government department to hand out without proper consultation with ALL stakeholders.... not just those very, VERY few they select as being stakeholders....

Furthermore, Person President of the House ONLY, such decisions by an unelected body could not proceed without first receiving clear permission from the government of the day... which therefore, Person President, bears equal culpability for this theft of national lands and lands of national heritage value, and its gifting direct as Freehold to only one group in this country.

The steady creep from Native Title and Mabo, through creating by regulation the opportunity for Indigenous groups to lay claim to purportedly unused sections of National Parks, through to this under-handed and arbitrary and undiscussed in the community gifting of Freehold has been both steady and pervasive, Person Speaker, and is something that desperately needs to first be placed under moratorium and a halt placed on all such proceedings as well as a caveat that they may be reversed at the will of the people, and then addressed to the people as a whole via a referendum.


I'm sure Pauline will sort out wayward MPs; she's back in her element now in the Senate, opposing the voice, after her near death electoral experience.



Maybe I should send that one to her.... something solid to work with for a change.

You see - the real issue here for me - as the Poet Laureate Of the Coming Counter-Revolution - is the way governments respective have sought to impose their will upon an unsuspecting public, and how now, with this 'voice' silliness, they are seeking to set in place an unmovable wedge which will contain the proviso that they can alter its rights and powers themselves at the stroke of a pen.... as and when it suits them and/or their Indigenous 'advisors'.........

Are you sure they should be doing that?  And that you should blindly allow them that absolute divine right of elected government?

Are you certain that any country should go down that path to appease a minority - and in doing so - open itself to a new form of despotism by and on behalf of that minority?  That is asking for trouble.....no... I'll re-phrase that - nothing in politics happens by accident.... there are NO unforeseen consequences and the consequences are all brain-stormed out well in advance and are therefore the clear intention of the political thrust ...... therefore this is CREATING future trouble for many, up to and including possible civil war and countless deaths and injuries in many ways.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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