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Poll Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?

YES    
  11 (28.9%)
NO    
  27 (71.1%)




Total votes: 38
« Created by: Grappler Deep State Feller on: Jul 30th, 2022 at 7:27pm »

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The question about a voice will be asked... (Read 55622 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1440 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:23pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 24th, 2022 at 6:24pm:
Frank is correct.. how much more of a divide could there be than having a separate parliament that even the prime minister says would take a courageous government to refuse... and that of 3% of the population and their tame lap dogs??
 

Your powers of comprehension are similarly crippled.

The AIM of the voice is not to increase division (though in fact it might do that...), the aim of the voice is to close the gap.   

Quote:
VOTE NO FOR A SANE FUTURE!


.....including the gap?

Quote:
Aside:-
"They are treated fairly enough that this year a play - At What Cost?, by Tasmanian Aboriginal Artist of the Year Nathan Maynard - was produced criticising the growing phenomenon of white people identifying as Aboriginal in order to be fashionable and to claim benefits. The star of the play, Luke Carroll, told the Sydney Morning Herald:

A lot of people are coming out of the woodwork claiming to be Aboriginal. I know of people here in Sydney who haven’t grown up Aboriginal and all of a sudden, their kids are identifying as Aboriginal. They are attending the schools, getting the jobs and taking away opportunities from people who have grown up Aboriginal... It’s a growing problem.

Mr Maynard described these people as “tick-a-boxes” and “claimers”. The phenomenon parallels the emergence of so-called “race-switchers” in the United States."


Yes, likely all true...and why are all these white-black (!) people "claimers"?

Answer: because they can't manage in the vicious TINA neoliberal NAIRU system which disadvantages the less-competitive.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1441 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:37pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 24th, 2022 at 7:15pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 24th, 2022 at 1:08pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 24th, 2022 at 12:48pm:
The aim of the voice is to maintain and widen the gap.
 

Frank your lack of analysis skill is showing.

That is NOT the aim of the voice; even if you want to argue the voice might increase division in the community.

Quote:
It will cement Aboriginal separateness, apartness.


You CAN legitimately argue that much, but not argue that it will increase the gap (re health outcomes, life expectancy, crime and incarceration, family dysfunction, alcoholism, poverty etc) 

.... and prevent assimilation at all cost.


Ah...yes, the voice might prevent, or rather, hinder assimilation; but so will the existence of the gap itself, because poverty and dysfunction are great dividers.

Quote:
You left off the pertinent bit parrot.
No, I addressed it above.

Quote:
what will be the point of vast Aboriginal bureaucracies, quangos, voice etc if Aborigines are like everyone else?


None at all.....

Quote:
The point of ALL these wheezes is to make sure the gap, the disadvantage, the shakedown - their very reason to exist - never end.


Ah, I now see your design for arguing the point of the voice is to increase the gap.

Repubs in the US also argue the Dems exist to maintain poverty - in a remarkable display of absurd ideological reasoning.

Of course in our current vicious NAIRU neoliberal system, BOTH sides will be complicit in maintaining  poverty.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1442 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:44pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 24th, 2022 at 9:09pm:
Symbolic claptrap that will change nothing.


Yes; so the next question to be asked (and answered) is.... how do you propose to close the gap?
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1443 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:52pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:44pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 24th, 2022 at 9:09pm:
Symbolic claptrap that will change nothing.


Yes; so the next question to be asked (and answered) is.... how do you propose to close the gap?



Grin Grin The endless repetition of the question that not even you can answer.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1444 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:52pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 24th, 2022 at 9:53pm:
Please riddle me how separateness etc will NOT enhance the gaps... you already said the 'voice' will not change those things - now you want the voice and expect it to change those things...


No, Pearson wants the voice, no doubt because he thinks aboriginal issues will achieve greater consideration in Parliament - including his idea of a Job Guarantee.

I just want the Job Guarantee.

Quote:
Are you sure you are on the right subject here?


Voice or not, the gap has to be closed.

Quote:
I say that by polarising everyone, there will be nothing but trouble, and there will be MORE exclusion of Aborigines ... and nothing will kick start them out of their lifestyle of hunter-gathering off the social security system and fighting the world.... and nothing will change the situation for those 'out there' in the Ning Nang Nong by their own choice.

How would they even know they don't have power etc?  they never had it...


In short, I agree (for the sake of the argument).

But the community is already polarized by black politics -  BECAUSE of the existence of the egregious gap.
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1445 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 10:13am
 
"the community is already polarized by black politics"

Got it in a nutshell...

We have the spectacle of a state government here failing to act on years of calculated vandalism of personal property of legitimate visitors to OUR National Park at Mt Warning... breaking no rules ... harming nobody ... merely going about their legitimate business and expecting to be treated with respect and their property left safe while they visited that Park ....

Then that same government, without taking a single step to rectify and punish what has been a clear act of terrorism against innocents, decides that they should simply hand over total control of the National Park to the terrorists, along with an enormous swathe of National Park along the border with Queensland - and without even a single murmur about that group's 'elders' producing the criminals, mending their ways, and standing by the righteous punishment they receive for their wrongdoing...

If I were in the hot seat, I would flatly refuse all demands, and would demand instead the handover of the culprits. No culprits - no negotiations, and even then no way you will gain total control of public property.

This kind of filth means we MUST get rid of the major parties now running the show; we must oppose every single preferential thing they wish to impose on us, and we must find a new way of having our own government handle things on our behalf, since clearly they are all incapable and unwilling to do so.

That is the kind of 'black politics', supported by a host of willing and useless fools who know nothing and are being herd driven by ridiculous social science concepts and ideologies, that is eating away at the soul of this nation and creating an Apartheid state .... violence, intimidation, assaults on innocents, terrorism followed by a cowardly surrender to the terrorists.... what kind of message do you imagine that sends to the next lot?????

No job guarantee...but a jail guarantee when you do things like that...... for ten years on the chain gang... and no discussion of any voice until you get your minds right...
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1446 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:27pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 10:13am:
"the community is already polarized by black politics"

Got it in a nutshell...


Good....but I will read the following with trepidation....

Quote:
We have the spectacle of a state government here failing to act on years of calculated vandalism of personal property of legitimate visitors to OUR National Park at Mt Warning... breaking no rules ... harming nobody ... merely going about their legitimate business and expecting to be treated with respect and their property left safe while they visited that Park ....

Then that same government, without taking a single step to rectify and punish what has been a clear act of terrorism against innocents, decides that they should simply hand over total control of the National Park to [highlight]the terrorists, along with an enormous swathe of National Park along the border with Queensland - and without even a single murmur about that group's 'elders' producing the criminals, mending their ways, and standing by the righteous punishment they receive for their wrongdoing...


You are demonstrating why you have no interest in addressing the plight of Palestinians driven from their  homes in 1947.

Note that this black "cultural terrorism" in Oz has really only surfaced since 1967 when blacks were recognized as citizens in their own land.

A smart government would have ensured equal participation in the OZ economy from that time.

As it was, the CDEP was introduced in 1977 to deal with egregious long-standing economic problems in black communities....and the CDEP succeeded to a point, before it was cancelled on ideological grounds by Thatcherite  economic "terrorists".....ouch.

Quote:
If I were in the hot seat, I would flatly refuse all demands, and would demand instead the handover of the culprits. No culprits - no negotiations, and even then no way you will gain total control of public property.


I would do that too, but I would also introduce a Job Guarantee...."idle hands are the devil's workshop"...

Quote:
This kind of filth means we MUST get rid of the major parties now running the show; we must oppose every single preferential thing they wish to impose on us, and we must find a new way of having our own government handle things on our behalf, since clearly they are all incapable and unwilling to do so.


Yes.....but we disagree on the policies this new government should introduce....so "we" (the electorate)  is moot...

Quote:
That is the kind of 'black politics', supported by a host of willing and useless fools who know nothing and are being herd driven by ridiculous social science concepts and ideologies, that is eating away at the soul of this nation and creating an Apartheid state .... violence, intimidation, assaults on innocents, terrorism followed by a cowardly surrender to the terrorists.... what kind of message do you imagine that sends to the next lot?????


Like I said, you need to deal with the Thatcherite economic terrorism that is keeping 1 million Australians in poverty, particularly egregious for blacks,  as identified by Pearson.

Quote:
No job guarantee...but a jail guarantee when you do things like that...... for ten years on the chain gang... and no discussion of any voice until you get your minds right...


"A jail guarantee, not a job guarantee"...shows the paucity of your ideology, when systemic unemployment is a permanent fixture in the current Thatcherite NAIRU  economic terrorism.





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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1447 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 2:42pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:27pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 10:13am:
"the community is already polarized by black politics"

Got it in a nutshell...


Good....but I will read the following with trepidation....

Quote:
We have the spectacle of a state government here failing to act on years of calculated vandalism of personal property of legitimate visitors to OUR National Park at Mt Warning... breaking no rules ... harming nobody ... merely going about their legitimate business and expecting to be treated with respect and their property left safe while they visited that Park ....

Then that same government, without taking a single step to rectify and punish what has been a clear act of terrorism against innocents, decides that they should simply hand over total control of the National Park to [highlight]the terrorists, along with an enormous swathe of National Park along the border with Queensland - and without even a single murmur about that group's 'elders' producing the criminals, mending their ways, and standing by the righteous punishment they receive for their wrongdoing...


You are demonstrating why you have no interest in addressing the plight of Palestinians driven from their  homes in 1947.

Note that this black "cultural terrorism" in Oz has really only surfaced since 1967 when blacks were recognized as citizens in their own land.

A smart government would have ensured equal participation in the OZ economy from that time.

As it was, the CDEP was introduced in 1977 to deal with egregious long-standing economic problems in black communities....and the CDEP succeeded to a point, before it was cancelled on ideological grounds by Thatcherite  economic "terrorists".....ouch.

Quote:
If I were in the hot seat, I would flatly refuse all demands, and would demand instead the handover of the culprits. No culprits - no negotiations, and even then no way you will gain total control of public property.


I would do that too, but I would also introduce a Job Guarantee...."idle hands are the devil's workshop"...

Quote:
This kind of filth means we MUST get rid of the major parties now running the show; we must oppose every single preferential thing they wish to impose on us, and we must find a new way of having our own government handle things on our behalf, since clearly they are all incapable and unwilling to do so.


Yes.....but we disagree on the policies this new government should introduce....so "we" (the electorate)  is moot...

Quote:
That is the kind of 'black politics', supported by a host of willing and useless fools who know nothing and are being herd driven by ridiculous social science concepts and ideologies, that is eating away at the soul of this nation and creating an Apartheid state .... violence, intimidation, assaults on innocents, terrorism followed by a cowardly surrender to the terrorists.... what kind of message do you imagine that sends to the next lot?????


Like I said, you need to deal with the Thatcherite economic terrorism that is keeping 1 million Australians in poverty, particularly egregious for blacks,  as identified by Pearson.

Quote:
No job guarantee...but a jail guarantee when you do things like that...... for ten years on the chain gang... and no discussion of any voice until you get your minds right...


"A jail guarantee, not a job guarantee"...shows the paucity of your ideology, when systemic unemployment is a permanent fixture in the current Thatcherite NAIRU  economic terrorism.







Not at all - I sympathise with the plight of the good Palestinians and consider why their leaders refused to take an active part in Israel as some do... but beyond that I can do nothing and so have no interest.  There is absolutely no relationship between my view of Palestinians and Aborigines, and they are not in the same situation - the Aborigines were never driven out or left of their own accord to oppose the foundation of Australia...

The Aborigines ARE Australian citizens and can take full advantage of that if they so choose, including affirmative action for public service jobs etc and for training places .... IF they choose!!

You really must cease trying to pigeon hole people by dragging in irrelevant things from outside here and now... I sign petitions against the treatment of women in Iran - HTH do you and a few others here work out that you alone are the great and noble empathisers etc in this universe?

Empathise all you like - but try sticking to reality.
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1448 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:02pm
 
Oh, yes - we note that the black terrorism only began once they were ceded citizenship... and escalated following the 'apology'... what we see as kindness and fairness they see as weakness and an opportunity..
I told you they considered themselves at war with us while we're still considering what more we can do for them ....  the barbarians are at the gates while you mediate and navel gaze.

...


Now with Albo's voice nonsense and all this craven surrender from the LNP at state level to pander for votes, it will only get worse.  Pay rent for our own country - fu
c
k 'em!  You want to pay the rent, put your money into a fund raiser to do just that.  I'll set one up.....

I take it then that you clearly accept my view that a civil war is inevitable.... and that there is the very real danger of a Tarrant Solution taking place if this continues....
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1449 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:07pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 2:42pm:
[quote]You really must cease trying to pigeon hole people by dragging in irrelevant things from outside here and now... I sign petitions against the treatment of women in Iran - HTH do you and a few others here work out that you alone are the great and noble empathisers etc in this universe?


I see your terrorist neoliberal (unemployment-entrenching) NAIRU ideology ...which you defend by accusing people of being drunken lay-abouts.... 

Quote:
Empathise all you like - but try sticking to reality.


Yes, well start by ceasing to accuse people of being work-shy, drunken layabouts- and consider the dysfunctional macroeconomic neoliberal ideology  which is responsible for their plight.
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1450 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:26pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:07pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 2:42pm:
[quote]You really must cease trying to pigeon hole people by dragging in irrelevant things from outside here and now... I sign petitions against the treatment of women in Iran - HTH do you and a few others here work out that you alone are the great and noble empathisers etc in this universe?


I see your terrorist neoliberal (unemployment-entrenching) NAIRU ideology ...which you defend by accusing people of being drunken lay-abouts.... 

Quote:
Empathise all you like - but try sticking to reality.


Yes, well start by ceasing to accuse people of being work-shy, drunken layabouts- and consider the dysfunctional macroeconomic neoliberal ideology  which is responsible for their plight.



Where did I call them all drunken layabouts?  Sandy beaches, drinking rum every night..... that's the luxury lifestyle many would kill for instead of being trapped in their cold water one room walk-up in Downturn City....

You exaggerate and take out of context as well... and are fixated on ideology and in pigeon holing square pegs into round pigeon holes.... I take it you are daily relieving the plight of the poor struggling Pallies.... and you are always welcome to pay the rent on your own country any time you want.....

Riddle me my poor lifestyle on my pension while on the high seas with a female Scandinavian crew... compare that with the lifestyle of the poor Abo on the beach ..... how do you fit such a scenario into some 'neoliberal' stance?  Aren't you over-generalising people way too much?  It isn't MY way of life... it's what I have to live with.... all I want is a tall ship and a star to steer her by, and 3-4 beautiful Scando ladies for crew.... taking the long way home and doing it on the cheap.... no fares or costs.... visiting countries...
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« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:31pm by Grappler Deep State Feller »  

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thegreatdivide
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1451 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 5:43pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:26pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:07pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 2:42pm:
[quote]You really must cease trying to pigeon hole people by dragging in irrelevant things from outside here and now... I sign petitions against the treatment of women in Iran - HTH do you and a few others here work out that you alone are the great and noble empathisers etc in this universe?


I see your terrorist neoliberal (unemployment-entrenching) NAIRU ideology ...which you defend by accusing people of being drunken lay-abouts.... 

Quote:
Empathise all you like - but try sticking to reality.


Yes, well start by ceasing to accuse people of being work-shy, drunken layabouts- and consider the dysfunctional macroeconomic neoliberal ideology  which is responsible for their plight.



Where did I call them all drunken layabouts? 
 

Ha ha ...sneaky, you dropped "all" in there....

Quote:
Sandy beaches, drinking rum every night..... that's the luxury lifestyle many would kill for instead of being trapped in their cold water one room walk-up in Downturn City....


The h-g lifestyle, no need to earn money? Not my idea of a good time...

Quote:
You exaggerate and take out of context as well...


hopefully you will show where I have done this..

Quote:
and are fixated on ideology


indeed, false ideology - like fake "freedom" ideology at the expense of well-being for all, is THE cause of all our problems

Quote:
and in pigeon holing square pegs into round pigeon holes....


waffle; relate it to what I said....oh I see... you are recommending the h-g lifestyle for blacks and whoever else might be attracted to it..

See the absurdities to which your determination to reject a job guarantee leads. 

Quote:
I take it you are daily relieving the plight of the poor struggling Pallies.... and you are always welcome to pay the rent on your own country any time you want.....


No, I am aware that the just solutions to the Palestinian problem,  eg, outlined in UN res. 181 and 242, are unachievable because of the dominance of your fake "freedom" ideology in international (and national) affairs. 

Quote:
Riddle me my poor lifestyle on my pension while on the high seas with a female Scandinavian crew... compare that with the lifestyle of the poor Abo on the beach ..... how do you fit such a scenario into some 'neoliberal' stance?


You need total self-awareness to succeed in your scenario (no money, but "king of the world"...and totally satisfied). Few achieve that level of self-awareness; and it's not the life-style I would choose forever (Scandi female companions notwithstanding), the world offers many more experiences. 

The 'neoliberal scenario' most of us must deal with involves the problem of getting money... not by escaping to an impossible h-g lifestyle.


Quote:
  Aren't you over-generalising people way too much?


No, we all have to get money, as noted above (except Robison Crusoe); and the h-g lifestyle is impractical for most, in the modern world.

Quote:
  It isn't MY way of life... it's what I have to live with.... all I want is a tall ship and a star to steer her by, and 3-4 beautiful Scando ladies for crew.... taking the long way home and doing it on the cheap.... no fares or costs.... visiting countries...



Long way home?... I thought so, you want to return to the varied experiences offered at home, after your escape-holiday....
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« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2022 at 5:54pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1452 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 6:58pm
 
No - home for THEM, silly... the long way around....
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1453 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 10:37pm
 
There will be no voice and no treaty, and considering the realities of the way they go about pressuring governments to surrender to their demands, with vandalism and terrorism, each and every past concession should be put on the table for full review...

HANDS OFF OUR NATIONAL PARKS!  WE DON'T PAY RENT IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!  LET THOSE WHO THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA PAY THE RENT!
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« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2022 at 10:56pm by Grappler Deep State Feller »  

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1454 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 10:55pm
 
This referendum will drive Aborigines and the rest further apart either way.

A NO result would confirm the Aboriginal activists like Lividia Thorpe in her prejudices about non aborigines.
A YES would establish a permanent lawfare by Aboriginez against the rest.

Neither result will do one little bit to change what is happening in the gruesome remote Aboriginal villages and towns because the abuse and dysfunction have absolutely nothing to do with a lack of representation.

This referendum is a Bbwianesque idiocy at best and a sinister plot go entrench racial animosity at it worst.

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