Australian Politics Forum - The question about a voice will be asked...

thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1455 - Nov 27^th, 2022 at 11:35am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 6:58pm:

No - home for THEM, silly... the long way around....

Oh..I missed "it's not YOUR lifestyle".

Anyway, your entire twisted logic, purporting to show the benefits of a 'money-less' h-g life style, is absurd in the context of this debate about the voice and closing the gap.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1456 - Nov 27^th, 2022 at 11:39am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:37pm:

There will be no voice and no treaty, and considering the realities of the way they go about pressuring governments to surrender to their demands, with vandalism and terrorism, each and every past concession should be put on the table for full review...

HANDS OFF OUR NATIONAL PARKS! WE DON'T PAY RENT IN OUR OWN COUNTRY! LET THOSE WHO THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA PAY THE RENT!

Fair enough.

And after that...? how do you intend to close the gap?
Ignoring it or blaming blacks for it or locking them up is not an option.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1457 - Nov 27^th, 2022 at 11:48am

Frank wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:55pm:

This referendum will drive Aborigines and the rest further apart either way.

Yes; and then the govt might wake up to the 'practical steps' demanded by the likes of Price and Mundine required to close the gap.

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A NO result would confirm the Aboriginal activists like Lividia Thorpe in her prejudices about non aborigines.
A YES would establish a permanent lawfare by Aboriginez against the rest.

Yes....typical of policy confusion in 'blind leading the blind' democracies.

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Neither result will do one little bit to change what is happening in the gruesome remote Aboriginal villages and towns because the abuse and dysfunction have absolutely nothing to do with a lack of representation.

Quite so.

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This referendum is a Bbwianesque idiocy at best and a sinister plot go entrench racial animosity at it worst.

Idiocy yes, but like I keep telling you, it's not a plan to "entrench racial animosity".... even if that is an unintended consequence of the idiocy. Most Australians simply want to close the gap.

The real barrier to closing the gap is the vicious entrenched neoliberal NAIRU idiocy.

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Captain Nemo Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 10720 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1458 - Nov 29^th, 2022 at 11:39pm
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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29967 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1459 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 6:17am Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 29^th, 2022 at 11:39pm: https://i.imgur.com/cYlNCcE.jpg Yes - spot on.
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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 21695 ACT Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1460 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 6:44am NO to all abo crap including the voice, control of national parks, ayers rock, Mount Warning and the like! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
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Gnads

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1461 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:16am

Quote:

Just say No to the Voice
JACINTA PRICE

THIS week, the National Party stood for all Australians against racial division. At the core of our democracy is the principle that every Australian is considered equal under the law.

It is deceitful to peddle the racial stereotype that Aboriginal people are one homogenous group who all think
the same.

This denies us our right to be respected as individuals.

No other racial group of Australians is framed in this way, and rightly so.

Media and proponents of the Voice
have been pushing this lie and it’s time to call it out.

The basis for the Voice comes from the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which has been sold to the Australian people on the abovementioned stereotype.

Further to this, the Statement – signed by 250 unelected individuals representing 0.03 per cent of Aboriginal
Australia – does not represent ALL of Aboriginal Australia’s wishes.

The other lie the proponents of the Voice have peddled is the notion that all Australians who identify as
Aboriginal or First Nations are marginalised and currently have no voice or “seat at the table”.

But we are not all marginalised.

And we have plenty of seats already, with many voices.

Within the Indigenous Advancement Strategy alone, we have 1100 Aboriginal organisations. We have more
than 2000 programs and services nationwide that are funded to advance Aboriginal Australians.

We have 11 federally elected representatives in parliament.

Divisive, woke ideology suggests Australia is made up of two groups: oppressors and the oppressed.

This ideology also forms the basis for Labor’s Voice campaign and is the same ideology that supporters of the Voice use when they accuse those who disagree with it as racist.

Every voter in this nation has the right to vote or disagree on a proposal put by any government without being branded racist.

Especially given the proposal has zero detail or is likely to be based on the former failed ATSIC
model.

And this time, Labor wants ATSIC 2.0 enshrined within our Constitution so that if it fails like the first ATSIC, it
can never be dismantled.

This is a recipe for disaster and a slide towards racial segregation.

This is why the National Party says No to the voice.

JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE IS THE CLP SENATOR FOR THE NT

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1462 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:24am

It's been asked - the investigators are still checking the crash site..... can't find the Voice cockpit recorder ....

The Voice is going down, babes, and Albo yesterday was pissing in the wind.... NOBODY wants it out in Realityland far from the madding crowds of politicians in their favoured echo chambers.... Nationals - Passionals - at least they have the balls to state their position in our democracy.... Voldemort is playing it close and letting the issue self-destruct in the community first... wise .... the Hicks can always oppose it at any time.... it's their wheat growing bread and cow milking butter....

Waiting for someone to bring up another false survey - with the wrong question(s) asked.....

"Do you think the Indigenous should have some voice to Parliament?"

"Sure - same as every Body Fu

c

king Else - which they already have with a higher percentage of representation than they represent in the community and they also have countless bodies paid by government to voice to government... No Problem!! Now - should EVERYBODY ELSE have the same level of actual voice to Parliament as the Indigenous now enjoy - that's your question!"

ASK THE CORRECT QUESTIONS - A LIE BY ANY OTHER NAME IS A FALSE SURVEY.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1463 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:28am

Gnads wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:16am:

Quote:

Just say No to the Voice
JACINTA PRICE

THIS week, the National Party stood for all Australians against racial division. At the core of our democracy is the principle that every Australian is considered equal under the law.

It is deceitful to peddle the racial stereotype that Aboriginal people are one homogenous group who all think
the same.

This denies us our right to be respected as individuals.

No other racial group of Australians is framed in this way, and rightly so.

Media and proponents of the Voice
have been pushing this lie and it’s time to call it out.

The basis for the Voice comes from the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which has been sold to the Australian people on the abovementioned stereotype.

Further to this, the Statement – signed by 250 unelected individuals representing 0.03 per cent of Aboriginal
Australia – does not represent ALL of Aboriginal Australia’s wishes.

The other lie the proponents of the Voice have peddled is the notion that all Australians who identify as
Aboriginal or First Nations are marginalised and currently have no voice or “seat at the table”.

But we are not all marginalised.

And we have plenty of seats already, with many voices.

Within the Indigenous Advancement Strategy alone, we have 1100 Aboriginal organisations. We have more
than 2000 programs and services nationwide that are funded to advance Aboriginal Australians.

We have 11 federally elected representatives in parliament.

Divisive, woke ideology suggests Australia is made up of two groups: oppressors and the oppressed.

This ideology also forms the basis for Labor’s Voice campaign and is the same ideology that supporters of the Voice use when they accuse those who disagree with it as racist.

Every voter in this nation has the right to vote or disagree on a proposal put by any government without being branded racist.

Especially given the proposal has zero detail or is likely to be based on the former failed ATSIC
model.

And this time, Labor wants ATSIC 2.0 enshrined within our Constitution so that if it fails like the first ATSIC, it
can never be dismantled.

This is a recipe for disaster and a slide towards racial segregation.

This is why the National Party says No to the voice.

JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE IS THE CLP SENATOR FOR THE NT

She is spot on.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Boris Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4080 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1464 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 3:01pm they also rape and murder children and used to eat them
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1465 - Nov 30^th, 2022 at 4:19pm

Gnads wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:16am:

Just say No to the Voice
JACINTA PRICE

THIS week, the National Party stood for all Australians against racial division. At the core of our democracy is the principle that every Australian is considered equal under the law.

Ah... that old conservative myth: 'equality before the law', even when the law is complicit in maintaining entrenched poverty (via a dysfunctional economic ideology favouring the most competitive individuals).

By the way, today - remarkably - the leader of the Vic. Nats, said we have a systems problem, which is why the gap still exists after so many failed attempts to close it.

Quote:

It is deceitful to peddle the racial stereotype that Aboriginal people are one homogenous group who all think the same.

A correct statement from Jacinta...so far: one correct, one incorrect.

Quote:

This denies us our right to be respected as individuals.

A wrong conclusion, implying those living in entrenched poverty don't DESERVE to be respected as individuals....

Score so far: 1 correct, 2 fails.

Quote:

No other racial group of Australians is framed in this way, and rightly so.

oh dear...GIGO; all groups divide into L and R....

1 pass, 3 fails.

Quote:

Media and proponents of the Voice
have been pushing this lie and it’s time to call it out.

The lie that blacks speak with one voice? I'll give Jacinta a mark on that comment, despite her wrong conclusions.

So far: 2 passes , 3 fails.

Quote:

The basis for the Voice comes from the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which has been sold to the Australian people on the abovementioned stereotype.

Hm...I have to give her another pass: score so far: 3 passes, 3 fails.

Quote:

Further to this, the Statement – signed by 250 unelected individuals representing 0.03 per cent of Aboriginal Australia – does not represent ALL of Aboriginal Australia’s wishes.

A definite fail: all blacks certainly do want to close the gap, which is what the Statement is all about (apart from some cultural clap-trap), as do most whites.

Score: 3 passes, 4 fails.

Quote:

The other lie the proponents of the Voice have peddled is the notion that all Australians who identify as
Aboriginal or First Nations are marginalised and currently have no voice or “seat at the table”.
But we are not all marginalised.

The problem with that statement is it's mostly fake white "aboriginals" who are not marginalized.

...3 passes, 5 fails.

Quote:

And we have plenty of seats already, with many voices.

Within the Indigenous Advancement Strategy alone, we have 1100 Aboriginal organisations. We have more than 2000 programs and services nationwide that are funded to advance Aboriginal Australians.

We have 11 federally elected representatives in parliament.

Yes, and yet failure to close the gap is the result, since neither side of government recognize the systemic barrier to closing the gap. No pass or fail here...

Quote:

Divisive, woke ideology suggests Australia is made up of two groups: oppressors and the oppressed.

Fail: the oppressor is the system, rather than a group; hence nothing to do with 'woke' ideology.

Score: 3 passes, 6 fails.

Quote:

This ideology also forms the basis for Labor’s Voice campaign and is the same ideology that supporters of the Voice use when they accuse those who disagree with it as racist

Half right half wrong; Labor wants to close the gap, accusing opposers of the voice of racism is a manifestation of confusion on all sides.

Quote:

Every voter in this nation has the right to vote or disagree on a proposal put by any government without being branded racist.

Correct: 4 passes, 6 fails.

Quote:

Especially given the proposal has zero detail or is likely to be based on the former failed ATSIC
model.

I will mark her down for that comment; we don't know what the voice proposal for closing the gap is.

Re ATSIC: (quick google):
"to promote indigenous self-management and self-sufficiency".

Well, the CDEP was a successful scheme, destroyed by blind neoliberal ideologues, which I suppose Jacinta would reject too, since she's an IPA, CIS goon...

Naturally ATSIC also failed, given the current dominant NAIRU ideology, because you can't have self-sufficiency in a system which requires unemployment as an inflation-control mechanism.

Score: 4 passes, 7 fails.

Quote:

And this time, Labor wants ATSIC 2.0 enshrined within our Constitution so that if it fails like the first ATSIC, it can never be dismantled

Addressed above; and constitutions can be changed.

Quote:

This is a recipe for disaster and a slide towards racial segregation.

No more of a disaster than the gap already is, and 'a slide toward racial segregation' is somewhat hysterical.

Score: 4 passess, 8 fails.

Quote:

This is why the National Party says No to the voice.

Yet as I noted at the start, the Vic. Nats today acknowledged a systems problem without identifying WHERE the system is faulty, (and a system in which Jacinta is complicit) - an important first step on the path to closing the gap.

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« Last Edit: Nov 30^th, 2022 at 4:26pm by thegreatdivide »

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1466 - Dec 1^st, 2022 at 4:56am

So we'll enshrine inequality before the law instead then... no problem..... great way to start the day...

Anyway - the investigators are still combing the wreckage of the crash looking for the Voice recorder... the flames are still too fierce to get close enough ... why - the Far North Coast of NSW is in flames with the Resistance striking everywhere................... watch this space.... five years of violence over Mt Warning and all the arse-raisers in state parliament can come up with is a meek surrender.... no balls in politics these days, you see.... they'll just mother them all into a pacified and non-violent lifestyle that currently far out-weighs the other 96-97% of the community by a country mile....

I TOLD YOU SO!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1467 - Dec 1^st, 2022 at 4:58am

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 4:19pm:

Gnads wrote on Nov 30^th, 2022 at 9:16am:

Just say No to the Voice
JACINTA PRICE

THIS week, the National Party stood for all Australians against racial division. At the core of our democracy is the principle that every Australian is considered equal under the law.

Ah... that old conservative myth: 'equality before the law', even when the law is complicit in maintaining entrenched poverty (via a dysfunctional economic ideology favouring the most competitive individuals).

By the way, today - remarkably - the leader of the Vic. Nats, said we have a systems problem, which is why the gap still exists after so many failed attempts to close it.

Quote:

It is deceitful to peddle the racial stereotype that Aboriginal people are one homogenous group who all think the same.

A correct statement from Jacinta...so far: one correct, one incorrect.

Quote:

This denies us our right to be respected as individuals.

A wrong conclusion, implying those living in entrenched poverty don't DESERVE to be respected as individuals....

... that is one absurd interpretation of what she said....... she actually said the opposite DUH .....

Score so far: 1 correct, 2 fails.

Quote: