Australian Politics Forum - The question about a voice will be asked...

Brian Ross

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1650 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 4:41pm

Frank wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 8:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 7:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 8:32am:

Abbos already have a voice:

that needle block Corona he free one and he safe one

big more people all around the world been already get em that their needle

get that needle and stay proper strong one and thank you

This is unbelievably ridiculous and deplorable - who the FFKKK has been keeping these Aboriginese in such a state of utter separation from a rich, open society like Australia.

It is utterly amazing that you need to ask such a question, Soren. It is Racists like yourself who have kept the Indigenous Australians, "in such a state of utter separation from rich open society". You really are such a silly sausage, Soren, completely without western morals, completely without understanding of what it is to be civilised and tolerant. Go back to where you come from, you Dane. You don't qualify as an Australian at all. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

This is unbelievably ridiculous and deplorable - who the FFKKK has been keeping these Aboriginese in such a state of utter separation from a rich, open society like Australia.

It's the 'grew here' proggy socialist fkkwits. Bbwian, Mothra, Paki, Duckwit, Albo - step forward, you of the Irish mail order theological doctorate mob and your bloody know it all fkkn missionary spirit.

Once the referendum is defeated we can then start to talk about Aborigines' role in their own utter debasement and degradation when they are most closely adhering to their 'traditional' ways.

Caused by - drum roll, please - Racists like Soren, Gnads and of course Graps and not least, Bobby. You created a non-citizen group, who would not be counted in the Census, you created a non-citizen group who could not vote, you created a non-citizen group who could not drink alcohol, who could not go to school, TAFE or University, who could not further themselves and who could not join the rest of Australian society. It is all your own fault, Soren. You wanted Indigenous Australians to die out and you still want them all dead because they embarrass you. Tsk, tsk, tsk, go back to Denmark, be a Viking there, Soren, it is where you belong, you don't belong here with us, Australians in our multicultural paradise. Roll Eyes

Discombobulated cockwomble, it was like this already when I flew here.
You 'grew here', remember? Go on, parade and enjoy your faux guilt, sniveling fathead.

When did you arrive, Soren? When was the vote to make Indigenous Australians, full Australians? Get real you silly saussage, you attitudes haven't changed, it is all your fault and the fault of your attitudes. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85213 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1651 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 8:30pm As in:- What caused it to crash and burn?
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1652 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 8:34pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 3:40pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 6:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 12:46pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 9:52am:

your non-citizen group have had every entitlement for many decades now..... stop whining and being lost in the distant past over which no individual here had any input or control.

You support the unemployment scrap heap as an inflation control method, the ultimate dysfunctional economic system.

Saw the great historical drama 'Mahatma Gandhi' (Ben Kingsley) last night.

"Poverty is the worst form of violence".

Gandhi noted the evils of global trade driven by self-interest alone; first the Indian villagers whose livelihoods were wiped out by British cotton and garment manufacturers, and then the British workers themselves who were hurt by Gandhi's successful recreation of the local Indian garments industry.

Trump knows all about trade for "America First".......

Don't impute beliefs to me - you know nothing about me.

laughable: I know you believe "personal responsibility" is the determining factor in entrenched poverty.

Laughable. You know nothing - personal responsbillity can alleviate that situation, same as for anyone else willing to ahve a go

Which is why you accept neoliberalism's unemployment scrap heap as the safety net for those least able to compete in the vicious market economy job market.

1+1=2

Quote:

Nah then, young turkey - what would you have anyone do about these past governments that allegedly kept the Abos down?

It's the present government we must concern ourselves with.

And yet it is you who constantly refer to "you" as in in"you caused this to Abos etc" - you are clearly a fraud.

Quote:

Any chance you might move into the late twentieth century at all - not to mention the twenty-first? You weren't even born, so you KNOW nothing.

Interesting fact about modern technology: it has provided the means for ALL recorded and present knowledge to be available at everyone's fingertips.

The information super-highway can rapidly become a disinformation super-highway and a misinformation super-highway.

My age is immaterial (as is my personal experience of life).

Laughable.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1653 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:14pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 8:34pm:

Laughable. You know nothing - personal responsbillity can alleviate that situation, same as for anyone else willing to ahve a go

Yes personal responsibility is necessary, but the community's responsibility to the individual is also needed.

"Poverty is the worst type of violence": Gandhi was talking about the violence of the community (in this case, the British Empire) causing the poverty of the individual
ie Indians forced into poverty via the suppression of the home garments industry, by British cotton mill owners.

And in the case of Oz blacks, by being forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

Quote:

And yet it is you who constantly refer to "you" as in in"you caused this to Abos etc" - you are clearly a fraud.

Do I? I thought it was my argument all along that the SYSTEM is at fault, the same system YOU are willing to tolerate, being content to blame the victims of poverty on their lack of 'personal responsibility'.

Don't blame me for your lack of comprehension skills.

Quote:

The information super-highway can rapidly become a disinformation super-highway and a misinformation super-highway.

.

Nice to see you make a sensible remark now and again; but you claimed I "know nothing" because I wasn't alive at such and such a time, and therefore lack the necessary life experiences.

I disproved that statement; "knowing" and "experiencing" " are not necessarily identical, OR exclusive.

Quote:

Laughable

Refuted above. Experience counts for nought in some individuals, unfortunately...

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1654 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:18pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 4:41pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 11:41am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 8:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 7:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 8:32am:

Abbos already have a voice:

that needle block Corona he free one and he safe one

big more people all around the world been already get em that their needle

get that needle and stay proper strong one and thank you

This is unbelievably ridiculous and deplorable - who the FFKKK has been keeping these Aboriginese in such a state of utter separation from a rich, open society like Australia.

It is utterly amazing that you need to ask such a question, Soren. It is Racists like yourself who have kept the Indigenous Australians, "in such a state of utter separation from rich open society". You really are such a silly sausage, Soren, completely without western morals, completely without understanding of what it is to be civilised and tolerant. Go back to where you come from, you Dane. You don't qualify as an Australian at all. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

This is unbelievably ridiculous and deplorable - who the FFKKK has been keeping these Aboriginese in such a state of utter separation from a rich, open society like Australia.

It's the 'grew here' proggy socialist fkkwits. Bbwian, Mothra, Paki, Duckwit, Albo - step forward, you of the Irish mail order theological doctorate mob and your bloody know it all fkkn missionary spirit.

Once the referendum is defeated we can then start to talk about Aborigines' role in their own utter debasement and degradation when they are most closely adhering to their 'traditional' ways.

Caused by - drum roll, please - Racists like Soren, Gnads and of course Graps and not least, Bobby. You created a non-citizen group, who would not be counted in the Census, you created a non-citizen group who could not vote, you created a non-citizen group who could not drink alcohol, who could not go to school, TAFE or University, who could not further themselves and who could not join the rest of Australian society. It is all your own fault, Soren. You wanted Indigenous Australians to die out and you still want them all dead because they embarrass you. Tsk, tsk, tsk, go back to Denmark, be a Viking there, Soren, it is where you belong, you don't belong here with us, Australians in our multicultural paradise. Roll Eyes

Discombobulated cockwomble, it was like this already when I flew here.
You 'grew here', remember? Go on, parade and enjoy your faux guilt, sniveling fathead.

When did you arrive, Soren? When was the vote to make Indigenous Australians, full Australians? Get real you silly saussage, you attitudes haven't changed, it is all your fault and the fault of your attitudes. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Here's your son, creepy gweggy turd. Shame, Bbwian, shame.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1655 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:48pm

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:18pm:

Here's your son, creepy gweggy turd. Shame, Bbwian, shame.

[url]width=400height=200]https://i0.wp.com/smdp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Is-Geo
rge-Santos-a-drag-on-the-GOP-1.jpg[/url]

Nice photos;..... but I can't see the connection with Estragon and Vladimir.....

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85213 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1656 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 10:22pm We're waiting for the fires to burn down to try to recover the Black Boxes.... they might shed some insight into why the Voice crashed so early.....
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1657 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 10:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:14pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 8:34pm:

Laughable. You know nothing - personal responsbillity can alleviate that situation, same as for anyone else willing to ahve a go

Yes personal responsibility is necessary, but the community's responsibility to the individual is also needed.

"Poverty is the worst type of violence": Gandhi was talking about the violence of the community (in this case, the British Empire) causing the poverty of the individual
ie Indians forced into poverty via the suppression of the home garments industry, by British cotton mill owners.

And in the case of Oz blacks, by being forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

Quote:

And yet it is you who constantly refer to "you" as in in"you caused this to Abos etc" - you are clearly a fraud.

Do I? I thought it was my argument all along that the SYSTEM is at fault, the same system YOU are willing to tolerate, being content to blame the victims of poverty on their lack of 'personal responsibility'.

Don't blame me for your lack of comprehension skills.

Quote:

The information super-highway can rapidly become a disinformation super-highway and a misinformation super-highway.

.

Nice to see you make a sensible remark now and again; but you claimed I "know nothing" because I wasn't alive at such and such a time, and therefore lack the necessary life experiences.

I disproved that statement; "knowing" and "experiencing" " are not necessarily identical, OR exclusive.

Quote:

Laughable

Refuted above. Experience counts for nought in some individuals, unfortunately...

Hoist on your own petard.... you do know what that means, don't you? There's that "you" again......
You never 'disprove' or 'refute' anything - you merely contradict and squirm and have no idea what you are discussing.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1658 - Jul 26^th, 2023 at 9:31am

Frank wrote on Aug 5^th, 2022 at 9:51pm:

Establishing a Voice to Parliament could be an opportunity for Indigenous Nation Building. Here's what that means

https://theconversation.com/amp/establishing-a-voice-to-parliament-could-be-an-o...

When Aboriginese jump on the bandwagon of 'nation building's you know they are onto a crap old idea.
You cant do 'nation building' where there are only fractious tribes and clans - Afghanistan, Iraq, Aboriginal Australia...

Dividing the country on the basis of race is not nation building but fracturing, dividing, antagonizing.
No wonder banal Banalbo and designer Abo Burney are hot for a Vouce instrument for it. A permanent constitutionally entrenched body to keep at the division and antagonizing. But call it reconciliation and nobody would notice the lie.

Just because there ARE mouth-breathing mugs like Arrsie, Mother, Auntie Bbwian et al, it does not mean they are a representative section of the Australian public.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1659 - Jul 27^th, 2023 at 3:45pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 10:25pm:

TGD:

I disproved that statement; "knowing" and "experiencing" " are not necessarily identical, OR exclusive.
Experience counts for nought in some individuals, unfortunately.

Graps: Hoist on your own petard....

How? You are a prime example of experiencing without gaining knowledge, hence you are unable to debate the issues.

Quote:

you do know what that means, don't you? There's that "you" again......

I certainly know that you and SR draw nothing useful from your own experience, ie, nothing after the experience is filtered through your reptilian-brain-based 'survival of the fittest' lens...

Quote:

You never 'disprove' or 'refute' anything -

I just did....

Quote:

you merely contradict and squirm and have no idea what you are discussing.

Refuted above, with explanation of WHY you don't learn anything useful for closing the gap.

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1660 - Jul 27^th, 2023 at 4:11pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 27^th, 2023 at 3:45pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 10:25pm:

TGD:

I disproved that statement; "knowing" and "experiencing" " are not necessarily identical, OR exclusive.
Experience counts for nought in some individuals, unfortunately.

Graps: Hoist on your own petard....

How? You are a prime example of experiencing without gaining knowledge, hence you are unable to debate the issues.

Quote:

you do know what that means, don't you? There's that "you" again......

I certainly know that you and SR draw nothing useful from your own experience, ie, nothing after the experience is filtered through your reptilian-brain-based 'survival of the fittest' lens...

Quote:

You never 'disprove' or 'refute' anything -

I just did....

Quote:

you merely contradict and squirm and have no idea what you are discussing.

Refuted above, with explanation of WHY you don't learn anything useful for closing the gap.

"I certainly know..."

"I just did"

"Refuted above"

Asserting your idiocy again and again and again is not a proof of anything but your manic stupidity. Saying it twice when totally stumped (your "refuted above") doesnt make it anything else.

A stupid parrot parrotting stupid crap is not a proof, above or below, of anything but that it is a stupid parrot repeating stupid crap, no matter what stimulus it receives. And so you understand neither your own empty, manic parrotting nor whatever anyone else posts, no matter what point or idea and no matter in what topic.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1661 - Jul 27^th, 2023 at 4:40pm

Frank wrote on Jul 27^th, 2023 at 4:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 27^th, 2023 at 3:45pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 10:25pm:

TGD:

I disproved that statement; "knowing" and "experiencing" " are not necessarily identical, OR exclusive.
Experience counts for nought in some individuals, unfortunately.

Graps: Hoist on your own petard....

How? You are a prime example of experiencing without gaining knowledge, hence you are unable to debate the issues.

Quote:

you do know what that means, don't you? There's that "you" again......

I certainly know that you and SR draw nothing useful from your own experience, ie, nothing after the experience is filtered through your reptilian-brain-based 'survival of the fittest' lens...

Quote:

You never 'disprove' or 'refute' anything -

I just did....

Quote:

you merely contradict and squirm and have no idea what you are discussing.

Refuted above, with explanation of WHY you don't learn anything useful for closing the gap.

"I certainly know..."

"I just did"

"Refuted above"

Asserting your idiocy again and again and again is not a proof of anything but your manic stupidity. Saying it twice when totally stumped (your "refuted above") doesnt make it anything else.

Wrong on all counts of course; the post to graps explained my arguments in detail, and I even explained WHY he had to resort to fake argumentation re 'experience' versus 'knowledge'.

Feel free to enter the debate (#1653/7 etc) which Graps had to abandon because of his inability to distinguish between 'experience' versus 'knowledge'......

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85213 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1662 - Jul 27^th, 2023 at 6:49pm ... and the answer is NO!
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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #1663 - Jul 29^th, 2023 at 11:45am

From the horses' mouths

Without the Indigenous voice to parliament, a treaty is vulnerable

MEGAN DAVIS
GEORGE WILLIAMS

The Uluru Statement from the Heart called for a constitutionally protected voice to parliament, treaty and truth. The reforms are listed in a sequence. The sequence is deliberate, and understanding the order is central to the message of the Uluru statement. It was based on recognition that public institutions, politicians and political parties rarely listen to what Indigenous peoples say about their lives and aspirations. Too often these bodies rewrite, reinterpret and rearrange the things that First Peoples themselves say on matters of reform.

The process was predicated on an amendment to the text of the Australian Constitution through a referendum of the Australian people. The voice to parliament is that reform. A treaty does not require constitutional amendment, nor does “truth-telling”, at least in the way treaty and truth were contemplated by those involved in the dialogues.

The voice to parliament is a structural reform. It is a change to the structure of Australia’s public institutions and would redistribute public power via the Constitution, Australia’s highest law. The reform will create an institutional relationship between governments and First Nations that will compel the state to listen to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples in policy and decision-making.

The next phase of the sequence of the Uluru reforms is a makarrata, a process of agreement-making and truth-telling. Treaty has been a long-time aspiration for Aboriginal people. Negotiating a treaty is a nation-to-nation process that requires leverage and resources. Having a voice to parliament will increase the likelihood that treaty negotiations will be productive and successful.

The voice will be an enabling mechanism for First Nations people in any treaty negotiations. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are in a poor negotiating position compared with the state. The voice would create the commission that will support First Nations in those negotiations. Without the voice, a treaty is vulnerable because of the considerable legal power of the commonwealth. State treaty processes are also particularly vulnerable, including those that are ongoing in Australia. Each runs the risk of being undermined by the commonwealth.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/without-the-indigenous-voice-to-parlia...

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139221 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #1664 - Jul 29^th, 2023 at 12:20pm It would be so much much easier if these uppity Aboriginal people just went back to their own country, wouldn't it Frank?
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Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?
YES 11 (28.9%) NO 27 (71.1%) Total votes: 38 « Created by: Grappler Deep State Feller on: Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:27pm »