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The question about a voice will be asked... (Read 54539 times)

Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #585 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 10:21pm

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 7:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 6:58pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:19pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 1:38pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:57pm:

[color=#ffffff]
How will the majority will endorse a mystery?

Because there won't be a mystery, ie, there won't be an advisory voice with the power to impose policy on parliament (much less the executive).

It would be a very courageous government, Minister, that would ignore a constitutionally established body.

And what on earth is the point of it if it can be safely ignored? That's the mystery.

Well, as Kenny said, certain policies favoured by the voice may find favour among the majority of MPs, in parliament. No mystery about that.

Quote:

Why not make the GG an Aborigine? Simpler, neater, much more symbolic. But that would be racist, too.

Yes, which leaves us with - as Kenny noted but you don't - the problem of how to close the gap.

Only Aborigines can close the gap. They need to move from the Stone Age to the present world. The world cannot move back. As log as they are reluctant to leave he Stone Age they will be 'disadvantaged'.

Do note that the one who have left the Stone Age behind - Stan Grant, Burney, Thorpe, Calma, Etc, etc- are doing very well.

Just so. That's why you used to have a chuckle over those cunning old memes about Stan Grant's advancing levels of tintedness, no?

Not wacism, old boy. Culturalism, innit.

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #586 - Aug 8^th, 2022 at 10:30pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 10:21pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 7:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 6:58pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 2:19pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 1:38pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 12:57pm:

[color=#ffffff]
How will the majority will endorse a mystery?

Because there won't be a mystery, ie, there won't be an advisory voice with the power to impose policy on parliament (much less the executive).

It would be a very courageous government, Minister, that would ignore a constitutionally established body.

And what on earth is the point of it if it can be safely ignored? That's the mystery.

Well, as Kenny said, certain policies favoured by the voice may find favour among the majority of MPs, in parliament. No mystery about that.

Quote:

Why not make the GG an Aborigine? Simpler, neater, much more symbolic. But that would be racist, too.

Yes, which leaves us with - as Kenny noted but you don't - the problem of how to close the gap.

Only Aborigines can close the gap. They need to move from the Stone Age to the present world. The world cannot move back. As log as they are reluctant to leave he Stone Age they will be 'disadvantaged'.

Do note that the one who have left the Stone Age behind - Stan Grant, Burney, Thorpe, Calma, Etc, etc- are doing very well.

Just so. That's why you used to have a chuckle over those cunning old memes about Stan Grant's advancing levels of tintedness, no?

Not wacism, old boy. Culturalism, innit.

Good on you to grasp and gnaw the crappy end of every message stick, paki. Or is it Bbwian? Can't tell the difference, you are both so fond of the crappy end. A predilection? Peccadillo? Mania? Carry on - you will, no matter what.

Yawn, tut tut, eyerolling.

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #587 - Aug 9^th, 2022 at 6:33pm

The assumption that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people don’t already have a voice to Parliament, or that Indigenous voices are limited, is ridiculous.

The Federal Council for the Advancement of Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders (FCAATSI), the National Aboriginal Consultative Council (NACC), National Aboriginal Council (NAC), the Aboriginal Development Commission (ADC), the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (ATSIC), the National Congress of Australia's First Peoples, the Reconciliation Council, the National Indigenous Council, the Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council, the Coalition of the Peaks, the Torres Strait Regional Authority, and the Torres Strait Regional Council, Northern Land Council, Central Land Council, the National Native Title Council and numerous other Land Councils and Peak Industry Bodies in Health, Education, Law, Justice, Children, etc.

And then we have had advisory committees to Ministers for Education, Health, and more.

That’s as well as individual Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander lobbyists, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander members of various political parties and their Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander policy committees.

Not to mention festivals and conferences such as Garma and Barunga, which politicians, corporates and special interest groups attend.

If the vast array of councils, committees, coalitions and conferences over half a century haven’t delivered the outcomes Indigenous people want to see, what makes anyone think a "voice" will be any different simply because the power to create it sits in the constitution?
https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/push-for-a-voice-to-parliament-is-a-bureaucra...

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #588 - Aug 9^th, 2022 at 6:37pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:41pm:

You see - the real issue here for me - as the Poet Laureate Of the Coming Counter-Revolution - is the way governments respective have sought to impose their will upon an unsuspecting public,

...that's what we elect governments to do, we are not "unsuspecting", mostly just confused and disappointed to varying degrees.

Quote:

and how now, with this 'voice' silliness, they are seeking to set in place an unmovable wedge which will contain the proviso that they can alter its rights and powers themselves at the stroke of a pen.... as and when it suits them and/or their Indigenous 'advisors'.........

In the Senate, the coalition plus the crossbench can ensure the voice has advisory function only.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49241 At my desk.	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #589 - Aug 9^th, 2022 at 6:41pm Wow, they actually named it FATCATS.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #590 - Aug 9^th, 2022 at 6:44pm freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2022 at 6:41pm: Wow, they actually named it FATCATS. Look at all of FATCAT's friends ffs! It's like that old kids program 🤭
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84995 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #591 - Aug 9^th, 2022 at 6:47pm 'ear, 'ear!!
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84995 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #592 - Aug 9^th, 2022 at 9:04pm
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10542 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #593 - Aug 11^th, 2022 at 12:43pm
Back to top	The 2025 election could be a shocker. IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84995 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #594 - Aug 11^th, 2022 at 8:53pm Captain Nemo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2022 at 12:43pm: https://i.imgur.com/eAXonjD.jpg Truly is the hypocrisy deep in this one of the red bandanna .... I liked Fitzy's books... but his political stance leaves me unimpressed....
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #595 - Aug 12^th, 2022 at 2:12pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 11^th, 2022 at 8:53pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2022 at 12:43pm:

https://i.imgur.com/eAXonjD.jpg

Truly is the hypocrisy deep in this one of the red bandanna .... I liked Fitzy's books... but his political stance leaves me unimpressed....

because your thinking is clouded by the conservative mantra of "personal responsibility' alone being the determinant of individual prosperity.

Both of them are off-course, yelling at one another. Fitz thinks the voice will close the gap, Price thinks it wont.

She is right, but (like you) she has the wrong solutions ie, 'personal responsibility' will close the gap.

As for Fitz, he will have to learn about the real solutions to close the gap, when the voice fails to do so..

Noel Pearson already knows the solution, as discussed with prof. Bill Mitchell. in this youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGdBprM_cCQ

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #596 - Aug 12^th, 2022 at 2:20pm

So you are saying that the Aborigines have no obligation to make an effort on their own behalf = personal responsibility... how is it that you translate the concept of helping oneself into some economic approach that will somehow alter everything and how is it that you see everything any person says about accepting personal responsibility purely in terms of their ability to prosper?

You can lead an Aborigine to a bar, but you can't force him to drink VB ....

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #597 - Aug 12^th, 2022 at 2:42pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 12^th, 2022 at 2:20pm:

So you are saying that the Aborigines have no obligation to make an effort on their own behalf = personal responsibility...

No, that's not what I am saying.

We all have personal responsibility to participate in society as best we can, but we are also all entitled to freedom from demoralizing, systemic discrimination or disadvantage which results, in this case, in the persistent gap (by many metrics).

Quote:

and how is it that you translate the concept of helping oneself into some economic approach that will somehow alter everything

Basic prosperity for all is a minimum requirement in a civilized society.

Quote:

and how is it that you see everything any person says about accepting personal responsibility purely in terms of their ability to prosper?

"From each according to his ability"...which is the individual's responsibility.

The community's responsibility is ensuring above- poverty employment for all.

Quote:

You can lead an Aborigine to a bar, but you can't force him to drink VB ....

His responsibility is to work - the same as the rest of us; the community's responsibility is to ensure the work is available.

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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #598 - Aug 12^th, 2022 at 2:53pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 12^th, 2022 at 2:12pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 11^th, 2022 at 8:53pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2022 at 12:43pm:

https://i.imgur.com/eAXonjD.jpg

Truly is the hypocrisy deep in this one of the red bandanna .... I liked Fitzy's books... but his political stance leaves me unimpressed....

because your thinking is clouded by the conservative mantra of "personal responsibility' alone being the determinant of individual prosperity.

Both of them are off-course, yelling at one another. Fitz thinks the voice will close the gap, Price thinks it wont.

She is right, but (like you) she has the wrong solutions ie, 'personal responsibility' will close the gap.

As for Fitz, he will have to learn about the real solutions to close the gap, when the voice fails to do so..

Noel Pearson already knows the solution, as discussed with prof. Bill Mitchell. in this youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGdBprM_cCQ

What are the real solutions?

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

WWW

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Boris Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4059 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #599 - Aug 12^th, 2022 at 2:54pm War
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