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Poll Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?

YES    
  11 (28.9%)
NO    
  27 (71.1%)




Total votes: 38
« Created by: Grappler Deep State Feller on: Jul 30th, 2022 at 7:27pm »

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The question about a voice will be asked... (Read 54872 times)
Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #645 - Aug 16th, 2022 at 7:35am
 
Anyway - nobody is bashing and killing Cheers apart from one another of the same demographic... don't know if they still eat one another, though......

Let's slip this one to you ....

"The Aborigines asked for it"...

So now you're making the statement that those Indigenous women asked for a bashing or a killing and abuse and neglect and starvation and so did those kids and not a few blokes?

Jeez- you're rough on them .......
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #646 - Aug 16th, 2022 at 7:35am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2022 at 8:21am:
What is the point of having a referendum if we do not know what we are voting for? That could mean anything.

The ATSIC people already have a voice in parliament. The same as every other Australian. No need to make it a racist, exclusive voice.


Yes we do.
We have a British and American Political Voice through the Gov-Generals and Prime Ministers.
So we need a Aborigine Voice.

...even usurping Republicans and Gays are trying for a Voice for their 'own' agendas detached from others.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #647 - Aug 16th, 2022 at 7:40am
 
Jasin wrote on Aug 16th, 2022 at 7:35am:
freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2022 at 8:21am:
What is the point of having a referendum if we do not know what we are voting for? That could mean anything.

The ATSIC people already have a voice in parliament. The same as every other Australian. No need to make it a racist, exclusive voice.


Yes we do.
We have a British and American Political Voice through the Gov-Generals and Prime Ministers.
So we need a Aborigine Voice.

...even usurping Republicans and Gays are trying for a Voice for their 'own' agendas detached from others.


No equation between a G-G and a PM and a 'voice' .... they are a product of a unified system, not part of some separate arm of government voted on only by a few and handed inside running on every issue.  the G-G and the PM represent all .... including the wandering Indigenous...

You missed it?  They have a much higher level of representation in elected government and in appointed positions than their numbers in the community represent...... 3.3% have 5% or so of elected reps...... they have numerous bodies to put their views.... bodies that no other group has, and which are paid out of government funds.

Who else has that?


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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #648 - Aug 16th, 2022 at 8:20am
 
Jasin wrote on Aug 16th, 2022 at 7:35am:
freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2022 at 8:21am:
What is the point of having a referendum if we do not know what we are voting for? That could mean anything.

The ATSIC people already have a voice in parliament. The same as every other Australian. No need to make it a racist, exclusive voice.


Yes we do.
We have a British and American Political Voice through the Gov-Generals and Prime Ministers.
So we need a Aborigine Voice.

...even usurping Republicans and Gays are trying for a Voice for their 'own' agendas detached from others.


All Australians are equal - but some are more equal than others.

We do NOT "need" an aboriginal Voice - the idea is absurd.

Do you know what they do to women and children?


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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #649 - Aug 16th, 2022 at 10:58am
 
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #650 - Aug 16th, 2022 at 11:15am
 
Looks a lot like a NO vote case is developing... my thanks to Janet Albrechtsen for viewing this as I said all along AND getting the advice of highly placed legal eagles ... all rules etc apply to all... as I said to Albo - no laws etc exist in a vacuum....

How now those who said but yesterday that anyone who said - One Law For All - All Laws For One - was some kind of raving bigot and that Pauline Hanson was just a nutter?

Not that I support her - but clearly she was maligned there...
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« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2022 at 10:24pm by Grappler Deep State Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #651 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 12:18am
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 15th, 2022 at 4:51pm:
The voice is a body to make recommendations to Parliament.

It's not a 3rd house, it's not a legislative body, it's a group of Indigenous members who will provide their opinions based on their experience and expertise in areas surrounding policy and politics of indigenous Australians.

The advice can be taken, cherry-picked or entirely ignored by the Government.

If you don't want an indigenous voice like that to parliament then I expect you'll be lining up to ban lobbyists also, and if not, why?

I genuinely don't understand why this is bad...


Good point.
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #652 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 12:24am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 17th, 2022 at 12:18am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 15th, 2022 at 4:51pm:
The voice is a body to make recommendations to Parliament.

It's not a 3rd house, it's not a legislative body, it's a group of Indigenous members who will provide their opinions based on their experience and expertise in areas surrounding policy and politics of indigenous Australians.

The advice can be taken, cherry-picked or entirely ignored by the Government.

If you don't want an indigenous voice like that to parliament then I expect you'll be lining up to ban lobbyists also, and if not, why?

I genuinely don't understand why this is bad...


Good point.



Lobbyists are not paid by government, are not enshrined in the constitution, and are not present at every level of government, and do not have a body of sycophants who will support what they say without question and put pressure on government to abide by their advice.

Easy as pie...... there is a world of difference .... and I have long advocated that lobbyists should be disabled and removed from any influence, especially in return for money paid to a party.

What about a White Australia Voice?  Happy with that?  Paid for out of government coffers to offer advice on any idea of government that might affect them?  What about an Immigrants Under Five Years Residency Voice?

Where are those?  What about Muslims, Africans, Indians, Kiwi expatriates and so forth?  NO special Voice available?

Hello, Ralph - this is your wakeup call.......
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #653 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 12:43am
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 15th, 2022 at 4:41pm:
The question about a voice will be asked....... and answered in the negative.... only a fool or a moron would sign up to such an agreement....


I will address your more recent point about lobbyists not being paid by government later.

Quote:
... a lot like signing up to some mythical global economy.... just sign yourself away here... sign your country's death warrant on the bottom line... and let me assure you everything will work out just fine........ thank you, M Politician...... now that the ink's dry on that we've got a nice comfy little sinecure waiting for you at huge salary and paid into a tax haven for you for life... and don't worry - none dare call it treason.... they'll be shouted down by the useful idiots  and vilified as racists and such and sent to Coventry if they bring it up with government and demand action... their education will be cut for not conforming and their life opportunities will become zero - better than any gulag, eh?  And so much more subtle than stamping down on dissidents and creating martyrs.... just make them social pariahs and all is well....


Enabling decent participation in a rich nation's economy doesn't need "signing up to some mythical global economy....". (though poor nations will need to sign up to a reformed IMF if they want to progress).

So you have two choices: pay higher taxes to fund an extended CDEP, or authorize the government to fund it using the government's sovereign currency issuing capacity (up to the limit of the resources available for purchase by the government).

But don't cry "can't afford it" - or "it's against neoliberal market ideology" like Howard did. 
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #654 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 1:00am
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 17th, 2022 at 12:24am:
Lobbyists are not paid by government, are not enshrined in the constitution, and are not present at every level of government, and do not have a body of sycophants who will support what they say without question and put pressure on government to abide by their advice.

The big end of town does just that, with their juicy political donations to sycophantic politicians wedded to private sector financing. 

[quote]Easy as pie...... there is a world of difference .... and I have long advocated that lobbyists should be disabled and removed from any influence, especially in return for money paid to a party.


Not so easy, when politicians are hooked on private sector bribes..I mean lobbyists.

Quote:
What about a White Australia Voice? 

It's got the advantage of the voice of the big end of town, as noted above. 

Quote:
Happy with that?  Paid for out of government coffers to offer advice on any idea of government that might affect them?


Th big end of town are wealthy enough to self-fund access to politicians  

Quote:
  What about Muslims, Africans, Indians, Kiwi expatriates and so forth?  NO special Voice available?


They all have to fight for the left-over scraps, after the big end of town's demands have been met. Abos just happen to be at the end of the line, being the least advantaged, by reason of history (cultural dispossession).

Quote:
Hello, Ralph - this is your wakeup call.......


Time for you to wake up, so that the government can close the gap ASAP.
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #655 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 2:42am
 
Quote:
Enabling decent participation in a rich nation's economy


Are you talking about Australia, or China?
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #656 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 11:59am
 
“Not so easy, when politicians are hooked on private sector bribes..I mean lobbyists.”

Evades the point that lobbyists are not paid by government etc, and that the lobbyists do NOT represent the majority of White Australia.

“It's got the advantage of the voice of the big end of town, as noted above.”

So you're now saying that 'the big end of town' with its money and lobbyists and inside running is the voice for all White Australians?  Now that is the silliest notion ever stated.  The ordinary person has no Voice.... there is no fair play in giving a free, all expenses overpaid Voice to one group.

“The big end of town are wealthy enough to self-fund access to politicians”

We'll try again – what about the Poor End Of Town?  Can you begin to see the difference here – between what you are stating and what the simple reality is?

“They all have to fight for the left-over scraps, after the big end of town's demands have been met. Abos just happen to be at the end of the line, being the least advantaged, by reason of history (cultural dispossession).”

What is it that you imagine the Poor Whites have to do?  Just stand about and have everything handed to them by the Big End Of Town?

“Time for you to wake up, so that the government can close the gap ASAP.”

The government will not close the gap – the gap is massively self-created, you have been told over and over that Intervention™ and intervention over two centuries has not worked, yet you imagine Big Brother can just romp in and fix it all with some magic wand?  Listen to wiser heads.

"Enabling decent participation in a rich nation's economy "

That is precisely the desire of the majority of White Australia at The Poor End of Town.  Understand??  What makes you imagine that a top-down society actually offers a full share to everyone in a certain demographic, White or Black?  What makes you imagine that all that profit going Offshore is not detrimental to the Poor End Of Town that cannot afford to buy shares etc and has to - to use your words - fight for the left-over scraps as well as struggle to even develop a decent standard of living under our current disastrous economic management?  If this is a rich country, the riches are massively unevenly distributed, and it has nothing to do with colour or creed.

You have advanced zero reason for any special privileges to the Indigenous.
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #657 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 1:08pm
 
Is there a single person here who disagrees with creating a permanent Voice for people based on race on the constitution?
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #658 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 1:29pm
 
Boris wrote on Aug 17th, 2022 at 1:08pm:
Is there a single person here who disagrees with creating a permanent Voice for people based on race on the constitution?



If I read you correctly - I disagree with a Voice being given to any specified group.... review your post... the majority here are voting NO.... and everywhere else I discuss this (non) issue....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #659 - Aug 17th, 2022 at 1:45pm
 
It is not difficult, in an Australian context, to find examples of post-truth deconstructionism, particularly in relation to the study and recording of history. Recently, for example, we have the fraudulent claims made by Bruce Pascoe in his fairy-tales about Aboriginal culture in his book Dark Emu, which has been proven to be almost a complete fabrication based on appeals to emotion and belief. Pascoe’s claptrap was exposed by Peter Sutton and Keryn Walshe, two academics who, fortunately, have not been infected by the intellectual poisons of postmodernism. Stuart Rintoul, in his article “Debunking Dark Emu” (Australian, June 12, 2021), notes:

In page after page, Sutton and Walshe accuse Pascoe of a “lack of true scholarship”, ignoring Aboriginal voices, dragging respect for traditional Aboriginal culture back into the Eurocentric world of the colonial era, and “trimming” colonial observations to fit his argument.
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