Australian Politics Forum - a referendum we actually need

Frank

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #180 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:07pm

The moment she pood her panties Grin

Newman: Okay. You cited freedom of speech in that. Why should your right to freedom of speech trump a trans person’s right not to be offended?

Peterson: Because in order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive. I mean, look at the conversation we’re having right now. You’re certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth. Why should you have the right to do that? It’s been rather uncomfortable.

Newman: Well, I’m very glad I put you on this part…

Peterson: You get my point. You’re doing what you should do, which is digging a bit to see what the hell is going on. And that is what you should do. But you’re exercising your freedom of speech to certainly risk offending me, and that’s fine. More power to you, as far as I’m concerned.

Newman: So you haven’t sat there and… I’m just… I’m just trying to work that out… I mean… [long pause]

Peterson: Ha! Gotcha!

Newman: You have caught me. You have caught me. I’m trying to work that up through my head… yeah I took a while… it took a while…

Peterson: It did, it did, yeah.

She is just too thick and adamant about it.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 13100 Gender:	Re: a referendum we actually need Reply #181 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:31pm Jasin wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 5:06pm: These four could easily sum up the x4 Middle-Eastern Religions of Zarathustrianism Judaism Christianity Mohommedism Did you mean Zoroastrianism Judaism Christianity Islam
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #182 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:37pm

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Peterson's very first stupidity:

journo: " women earn less than men"

peterson: "no they dont"

journo: "The pay gap is 9 percent less on average"

peterson:Yes but there are multiple reasons for that..."

So he agreed there IS a pay gap..... contradicting his earlier statement....

That's not even close to the transcript.

Read it before you put words in his mouth.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca...

Really?

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason.

Once more, in context, this time

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist.

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason. If you’re a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. You say women in aggregate are paid less than men. Okay. Well then we break its down by age; we break it down by occupation; we break it down by interest; we break it down by personality.

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mothra

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #183 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:43pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:37pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Peterson's very first stupidity:

journo: " women earn less than men"

peterson: "no they dont"

journo: "The pay gap is 9 percent less on average"

peterson:Yes but there are multiple reasons for that..."

So he agreed there IS a pay gap..... contradicting his earlier statement....

That's not even close to the transcript.

Read it before you put words in his mouth.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca...

Really?

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason.

Once more, in context, this time

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist.

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason. If you’re a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. You say women in aggregate are paid less than men. Okay. Well then we break its down by age; we break it down by occupation; we break it down by interest; we break it down by personality.

You mean the context in which he is pushed to contradict himself?

I thought i'd spare you all the humiliation of pointing that out.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #184 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:57pm

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:37pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Peterson's very first stupidity:

journo: " women earn less than men"

peterson: "no they dont"

journo: "The pay gap is 9 percent less on average"

peterson:Yes but there are multiple reasons for that..."

So he agreed there IS a pay gap..... contradicting his earlier statement....

That's not even close to the transcript.

Read it before you put words in his mouth.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca...

Really?

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason.

Once more, in context, this time

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist.

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason. If you’re a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. You say women in aggregate are paid less than men. Okay. Well then we break its down by age; we break it down by occupation; we break it down by interest; we break it down by personality.

You mean the context in which he is pushed to contradict himself?

I thought i'd spare you all the humiliation of pointing that out.

No. The context of pay gap had been shifted by Newman from not only - there being a pay gap - to there being a pay gap and men cause it, all else being equal.

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Frank

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #185 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:59pm

Mothra Theresa - you are not up to it. You are too thick and inarticulate. You never provide an actual agreement, only 'no-but' because you cannot.

Emoting and being smug and worked up about how righteous you think you are is NOT an argument. It is a stance you have been parroting but it is not an argument. If you have not rigorously tested, questioned and then accepted your premises you are just whistling dixie in the wind. And when those premises are challenged you should be able to provide a better and more articulate defence of them than the piss weak shite you are splashing around as a feminine prerogative.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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mothra

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #186 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:06pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:57pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:37pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Peterson's very first stupidity:

journo: " women earn less than men"

peterson: "no they dont"

journo: "The pay gap is 9 percent less on average"

peterson:Yes but there are multiple reasons for that..."

So he agreed there IS a pay gap..... contradicting his earlier statement....

That's not even close to the transcript.

Read it before you put words in his mouth.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca...

Really?

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason.

Once more, in context, this time

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist.

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason. If you’re a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. You say women in aggregate are paid less than men. Okay. Well then we break its down by age; we break it down by occupation; we break it down by interest; we break it down by personality.

You mean the context in which he is pushed to contradict himself?

I thought i'd spare you all the humiliation of pointing that out.

No. The context of pay gap had been shifted by Newman from not only - there being a pay gap - to there being a pay gap and men cause it, all else being equal.

I made no mention of Newman, other than to say she conducted that interview very poorly. You're shifting the goal posts.

I was talking about Peterson who both claims the pay gap is non-existent then goes on to explain why it is so, ergo, he contradicts himself

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mothra

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #187 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:08pm

Frank wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:59pm:

Mothra Theresa - you are not up to it. You are too thick and inarticulate. You never provide an actual agreement, only 'no-but' because you cannot.

Emoting and being smug and worked up about how righteous you think you are is NOT an argument. It is a stance you have been parroting but it is not an argument. If you have not rigorously tested, questioned and then accepted your premises you are just whistling dixie in the wind. And when those premises are challenged you should be able to provide a better and more articulate defence of them than the piss weak shite you are splashing around as a feminine prerogative.

Yet i've made no claims.

And you call me emotional. The above post of yours is complete emotive wank.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #188 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:14pm

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:57pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:37pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Peterson's very first stupidity:

journo: " women earn less than men"

peterson: "no they dont"

journo: "The pay gap is 9 percent less on average"

peterson:Yes but there are multiple reasons for that..."

So he agreed there IS a pay gap..... contradicting his earlier statement....

That's not even close to the transcript.

Read it before you put words in his mouth.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca...

Really?

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason.

Once more, in context, this time

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist.

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason. If you’re a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. You say women in aggregate are paid less than men. Okay. Well then we break its down by age; we break it down by occupation; we break it down by interest; we break it down by personality.

You mean the context in which he is pushed to contradict himself?

I thought i'd spare you all the humiliation of pointing that out.

No. The context of pay gap had been shifted by Newman from not only - there being a pay gap - to there being a pay gap and men cause it, all else being equal.

I made no mention of Newman, other than to say she conducted that interview very poorly. You're shifting the goal posts.

I was talking about Peterson who both claims the pay gap is non-existent then goes on to explain why it is so, ergo, he contradicts himself

Ergo, in context, he addressed Newman's pay gap (extended version) - there being a pay gap and men cause it, all else being equal.

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mothra

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #189 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:23pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:14pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:57pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 7:37pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Peterson's very first stupidity:

journo: " women earn less than men"

peterson: "no they dont"

journo: "The pay gap is 9 percent less on average"

peterson:Yes but there are multiple reasons for that..."

So he agreed there IS a pay gap..... contradicting his earlier statement....

That's not even close to the transcript.

Read it before you put words in his mouth.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca...

Really?

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason.

Once more, in context, this time

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist.

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason. If you’re a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. You say women in aggregate are paid less than men. Okay. Well then we break its down by age; we break it down by occupation; we break it down by interest; we break it down by personality.

You mean the context in which he is pushed to contradict himself?

I thought i'd spare you all the humiliation of pointing that out.

No. The context of pay gap had been shifted by Newman from not only - there being a pay gap - to there being a pay gap and men cause it, all else being equal.

I made no mention of Newman, other than to say she conducted that interview very poorly. You're shifting the goal posts.

I was talking about Peterson who both claims the pay gap is non-existent then goes on to explain why it is so, ergo, he contradicts himself

Ergo, in context, he addressed Newman's pay gap (extended version) - there being a pay gap and men cause it, all else being equal.

Nobody made the juvenile claim that "men cause it" ... other than the morons on this forum.

Why must everything be reduced to such inflammatory and counterproductive slogans that nobody ever actually said?

But to that point, even Peterson admits that part of it is purely about gender and prejudice.

I think you'll find, as would Peterson if he got his head out of his own arse long enough, that feminists have been saying for generations that the pay gap is multifaceted. Peterson is, in inimical form, just claiming other people's ideas as his own.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 13100 Gender:	Re: a referendum we actually need Reply #190 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:34pm mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:23pm: Nobody made the juvenile claim that "men cause it" ... other than the morons on this forum. Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they're still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you. [which Peterson never said]
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mothra

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #191 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:38pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:34pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:23pm:

Nobody made the juvenile claim that "men cause it" ... other than the morons on this forum.

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they're still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you. [which Peterson never said]

And that translates to you as "men cause it" does it?

Defensive much? Were Peterson a psychologist worthy of even a fraction of his self-opinion, he's immediately diagnose that as defensiveness.

I don't know what it is about you lot on here. Obsessed with "blame" and "guilt". I keep telling you that's not going to get us anywhere.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #192 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:41pm

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:34pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:23pm:

Nobody made the juvenile claim that "men cause it" ... other than the morons on this forum.

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they're still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you. [which Peterson never said]

And that translates to you as "men cause it" does it?

Defensive much? Were Peterson a psychologist worthy of even a fraction of his self-opinion, he's immediately diagnose that as defensiveness.

I don't know what it is about you lot on here. Obsessed with "blame" and "guilt". I keep telling you that's not going to get us anywhere.

What Newman was (mis)quoting back to Peterson was what he'd written in '12 Rules for Life' -

Let me put it quite to you from the book where you say “there are whole disciplines in universities forthrightly hostile towards men. These are the areas of study dominated by the postmodern stroke neo-Marxist claim the Western culture in particular is an oppressive structure created by white men to dominate and exclude women.”

Do you see how she abused the context of Peterson's written words?

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mothra

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #193 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:47pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:41pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:34pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:23pm:

Nobody made the juvenile claim that "men cause it" ... other than the morons on this forum.

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they're still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you. [which Peterson never said]

And that translates to you as "men cause it" does it?

Defensive much? Were Peterson a psychologist worthy of even a fraction of his self-opinion, he's immediately diagnose that as defensiveness.

I don't know what it is about you lot on here. Obsessed with "blame" and "guilt". I keep telling you that's not going to get us anywhere.

What Newman was (mis)quoting back to Peterson was what he'd written in '12 Rules for Life' -

Let me put it quite to you from the book where you say “there are whole disciplines in universities forthrightly hostile towards men. These are the areas of study dominated by the postmodern stroke neo-Marxist claim the Western culture in particular is an oppressive structure created by white men to dominate and exclude women.”

Do you see how she abused the context of Peterson's written words?

More deflection to run away from the fact you're cornered.

I am not defending that interviewer. I've said twice now she was poor.

But if you don't think that this world has been set up by men, for men and we are still in the processes of dismantling that, then you've not been paying attention to any part of history.

Furthermore, Peterson himself refers to women's tendency to be "agreeable". Do you think this nurture or nature? Think about it.

See? Multi-faceted. Not Peterson's original work.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #194 - Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:58pm

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:47pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:41pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:34pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 8:23pm:

Nobody made the juvenile claim that "men cause it" ... other than the morons on this forum.

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they're still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you. [which Peterson never said]

And that translates to you as "men cause it" does it?

Defensive much? Were Peterson a psychologist worthy of even a fraction of his self-opinion, he's immediately diagnose that as defensiveness.

I don't know what it is about you lot on here. Obsessed with "blame" and "guilt". I keep telling you that's not going to get us anywhere.

What Newman was (mis)quoting back to Peterson was what he'd written in '12 Rules for Life' -

Let me put it quite to you from the book where you say “there are whole disciplines in universities forthrightly hostile towards men. These are the areas of study dominated by the postmodern stroke neo-Marxist claim the Western culture in particular is an oppressive structure created by white men to dominate and exclude women.”

Do you see how she abused the context of Peterson's written words?

More deflection to run away from the fact you're cornered.

I am not defending that interviewer. I've said twice now she was poor.

But if you don't think that this world has been set up by men, for men and we are still in the processes of dismantling that, then you've not been paying attention to any part of history.

Furthermore, Peterson himself refers to women's tendency to be "agreeable". Do you think this nurture or nature? Think about it.

See? Multi-faceted. Not Peterson's original work.

Both TGD and you have attempted to demonstrate that Peterson contradicted himself. He didn't.

I'm sure most women understand that the issue is multi-faceted, Newman, at least in this interview, didn't want to go there; she wanted to flatten the rugged geography of the point to a plain with one hill (which she ended up dying on) - that there is a pay gap (via domination and exclusion - which she misattributed to Peterson) and men cause it.

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